Cheap alternatives to overpriced hydroponic nutrients

[GR33NL3AF]

Yup awesome thread, helped me a lot because all the initial info I read on this was just use the 2 parts and you're good to go, but now I see a lot (if not most) add epsom salt to the mix and that would be why my plants (especially one of the strains) are showing MG deficiency. I'm also glad I read this because I finally decided to switch to EC mode on my Blue Labs meter and realized why my plants were burning a bit at 600ppm (was using .5 EC conversion). I'm at 1.1 EC now, plants are getting big and I'm about to change to 12/12.

I ratio I was using used a little more of the cal-nit than mentioned here, so I bumped up the base stuff when I topped off this time. Also added half a gram (per gallon per my concentrated dosing) of epsom salts and I'll add more afterwards if needed, gave them a nice foliar spray couple days ago and they are turning around.

So the general consensus seems to be to basically use the same formula through flower? For anybody here who dials back on the cal-nit, do you find you need to supplement additional calcium?

Also, didn't see much info regarding PH, JRPeters claims this line of nutes is good to go at up to 8PH I believe. My water is 80ppm (well water) and have had it tested by jrpeters and it's very clean, but it is 7.8 PH. I just started using modest amounts of PH Down (half nitrate form, half potassium) to at least get it down to 6.6. Should I trust it without PH Down or do you guys feel I'm doing the right thing, or should go even further and get it down to 6.3 or so?

Interesting about the pH... I am also on low ppm well water, I think having them test it would be a good idea.

Can you explain this further?: I'm also glad I read this because I finally decided to switch to EC mode on my Blue Labs meter and realized why my plants were burning a bit at 600ppm (was using .5 EC conversion). I'm at 1.1 EC now, plants are getting big and I'm about to change to 12/12.

I have the same meter and have not switched to EC, I figured 1.1 EC was about 600 ppm...

 

[Fresh Starts]

FYI: the preferred form of magnesium sulphate is the mono-hydrate version, not the hepta-hydrate. The drug store stuff will work in a pinch but it is not for regular hydroponic use.

What's the difference between the two sources of magnesium or why do you prefer monohydrate? I've read about heptahydrate being used for hydroponics without much caveat

 

[Blend X]

I have been sourcing my inorganic salts from a large multi-national supplier. Their representatives sell three grades of chemicals: reagent, greenhouse, and agricultural. Reagent is orders of magnitude greater in price than greenhouse which is multiple times in price of agricultural. The other difference is the levels of purity. Reagent grade is for laboratory use. Greenhouse grade is what some claim to be "food" grade. One time, I was picking up some supplies and the secretary asked me if I was using some of the chems for processing food. I asked her why and she told me that I would have to be taxed differently. Nothing was said about the difference in quality. Another time I needed another bag of magnesium sulphate. When I came in for my phone in order, I noticed that the label was different from the other times I bought some. It said "magnesium sulphate" in big letters so I thought nothing of it. At home, upon closer inspection, I noticed the mono/hepta difference when comparing the old bag with the new bag. The new bag also had the word "agricultural grade" on it. I always opt for the best purity I can afford within reason.

 

[Fresh Starts]

Sure reagent grade salts are great and yes purity is a matter of discussion for any one looking into mixing elemental salts but lets clear some thing up. Are you saying that Magnesium Sulphate Monohyhrate is better that Magnesium Sulphate Heptahydrate because Monohydrate is a purer version? I'll have to research the topic further but from what I understand both of these compounds are available in reagent, greenhouse, and agricultural grades.

 

[Blend X]

I source my MgSO4 in 50 lb bags. The supplier carries the mono version in greenhouse grade and the hepta version for their agricultural grade. I would imagine that I could special order the hepta version in any grade but the off-the-shelf greenhouse grade is monohydrate.

 

[Quantrill]

The heptahydrate form of mag sulfate is more easily dissolved than the monohydrate.

I'd like to know what brand markets the monohydrate as their greenhouse grade.

 

[GR33NL3AF]

Sure reagent grade salts are great and yes purity is a matter of discussion for any one looking into mixing elemental salts but lets clear some thing up. Are you saying that Magnesium Sulphate Monohyhrate is better that Magnesium Sulphate Heptahydrate because Monohydrate is a purer version? I'll have to research the topic further but from what I understand both of these compounds are available in reagent, greenhouse, and agricultural grades.

Hey Fresh, I recall that your ratios with Jack's Hydro and Cal Nitrate were slightly different then the traditional 3-2.... How is it working for you?

 

[Fresh Starts]

its going good thus far. The only thing I don't like is the level nitrogen availability at low EC levels. It could be that I'm accustomed to feeding other bottled nutrients at higher levels (1000+ ppm) but jacks seems to work well @ EC 1.0-1.5 (500- 750 ppm)

 

[GR33NL3AF]

its going good thus far. The only thing I don't like is the level nitrogen availability at low EC levels. It could be that I'm accustomed to feeding other bottled nutrients at higher levels (1000+ ppm) but jacks seems to work well @ EC 1.0-1.5 (500- 750 ppm)

Interesting, how far along are your plants?

Btw, I've been runnning H&G in a room with peat beds, no complaints. I recently ran out and fed some Jacks Hydro that I had left over, the next day the top of the beds was full of white roots. I've never seen this in Peat, only coco.

 

[connoisseurde420]

I'm close to ordering some jacks salts when these bottles run out in the next month or so. Just wondering what yall are running in peat mixes like pro mix with ro water. from the research I've done this far I'm going to order 5-12-26, cal nit, most, and blossom pk boost. then add some Epsom salts for mag...

 

[Fresh Starts]

Interesting, how far along are your plants?

Btw, I've been runnning H&G in a room with peat beds, no complaints. I recently ran out and fed some Jacks Hydro that I had left over, the next day the top of the beds was full of white roots. I've never seen this in Peat, only coco.

I'm 8 days into the flip. I'm currently running Jacks 5-12-26 with Cal/Nit and Epsom salts (aka Magnesium Sulphate Heptahydrate) in pure Botanicare coco. Growth rates are similar if not more symmetrical then my previous bottled nutrient regimen- which I'm very satisfied about. We'll see how the onset of bud-sites develop in the next week.

I'm close to ordering some jacks salts when these bottles run out in the next month or so. Just wondering what yall are running in peat mixes like pro mix with ro water. from the research I've done this far I'm going to order 5-12-26, cal nit, most, and blossom pk boost. then add some Epsom salts for mag...

The blossom PK booster is not needed. I believe it is reccomended by JR Peters to be used to encourage the onset of bud-sites during the first two weeks of flower- and they prescribe it to be used with Hydro F.e.e.d which is a whole other line of nutrients they have.

 

[connoisseurde420]

@freshstarts thanks for the response. blossom boost sounds kind of like bud blood that i stopped using. it did promote budsites earlier with a bit less stretch. but I'm going to go with out it as you suggested and keep it simple

 

[GR33NL3AF]

I'm 8 days into the flip. I'm currently running Jacks 5-12-26 with Cal/Nit and Epsom salts (aka Magnesium Sulphate Heptahydrate) in pure Botanicare coco. Growth rates are similar if not more symmetrical then my previous bottled nutrient regimen- which I'm very satisfied about. We'll see how the onset of bud-sites develop in the next week. View attachment 379792

Noticed healthy and vigor when I used it as well. Switched to coco A&B to make the transition to coco less stressful but I'll be placing another order with JR soon enough.

 

[connoisseurde420]

FYI I also ordered MOST with mine but apparently is easy to overdose on that stuff so I haven't bothered using it at all, haven't seen any need. Only thing I've seen so far is mag deficiency with high powered lights. My moms under CFLs @400ppm have been fine.

how much did you use. I'm seeing application rates about .5 grams per gallon.

 

[oscar169]

I mix up a solution of each in separate jugs and use about 10ml/gal of each for roughly 600ppm and little less than 7.5ml/gal for 400ish ppm. I use pretty hot water because for some reason I have trouble dissolving the hydro stuff, the cal-nit dissolves easily and then I also add about 35grams of epsom salt to the 5-12-26 solution.

For a gallon of solution:
880 grams of Jack's 5-12-26
580 grams of calcium nitrate

For a quart of solution:
220 grams of Jack's 5-12-26
145 grams of calcium nitrate

35 Grams epsom is to 1 gallon, is ppm as when you add 1 gram of epsom to 1 gallon ?

Going to try mixing a gallon stock solution, going to use it on mother plants, just tired of weighing all the time.

 

[oscar169]

Sorry I didn't explain that very well, I put 35 grams of epsom into a quart of that solution which ends up being less than half a gram "per gallon" at a rate of 10ml/gal (I think it's something like .35 grams per gallon at that rate). I'm still working out exactly how much epsom I need and didn't want to overdo it, some say half a gram to a full gram per gallon for MG hungry strains so I went a bit less and will add more afterwards if needed. Too early to comment as I just did this mixture last week and treated my plants with a foliar spray to help the MG deficiency I was having. Also my PH was too high, JRPeters recommended I go buy some battery acid and use that instead of Nitrate/Potassium based PH Down. Yes it's more dangerous but if you're careful, it's cheap as dirt compared to the watered down brand name PH downs and won't throw your NPK out of balance in the process.

Do not take my word on any of this, I'm by no means an expert but the mixture besides the epsom is what JRPeters recommends I believe and what I was told by somebody who's been using it a long time. Let me know how your 5-12-26 dissolves cuz I had lots of issues getting it to dissolve at first until I started heating up the water a lot and still have to shake it a shit ton and even then some stuff still sinks to the bottom.

So many gram of epsom would I need in a Gallon stock solution, If I wanted it at the 1 Gram per gallon when I was weight it out ?

 

[Natural]

So many gram of epsom would I need in a Gallon stock solution, If I wanted it at the 1 Gram per gallon when I was weight it out ?

128 liquid ounces per gallon...that might give ya a place to start.

 

[oscar169]

128 liquid ounces per gallon...that might give ya a place to start.

That's not what I'm talking about, I'm taking about making a Stock Solution with the ppm that we get with 1 gram to gallon when weighing it out on a scale.

25.5 Mg and 33.7 S

 

[Natural]

That's not what I'm talking about, I'm taking about making a Stock Solution with the ppm that we get with 1 gram to gallon when weighing it out on a scale.

I thought you meant a stock gallon of concentrated. (bows out silently..lol)

 

[oscar169]

I thought you meant a stock gallon of concentrated. (bows out silently..lol)

No Problem, just trying to get the right PPM in my stock solution..:)