Cheap alternatives to overpriced hydroponic nutrients

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desertsquirrel

desertsquirrel

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GUARANTEED ANALYSIS F1313 Total nitrogen (N) .......................................................... 5%
5.00% nitrate nitrogen Available phosphate (P2O5) ............................................. 12% Soluble potash (K2O) ...................................................... 26%

130 oz / 1000 gal
3705 g / 3785 l

3705000 mg / 3785 l = 979 ppm

N 979 X .05 = 48.95
P 979 X .12 = 117.48
K 979 X .26 = 254.54

N 49+ 101 = 150
P 118 X .436 = 51
K 254.54 X .83 = 211

Actual available PPM:
N 150
P 51
K 211

Or 3-1-4
 
desertsquirrel

desertsquirrel

1,177
83
mg/L IS ppm...

this is from here:


I started this thread because I see an increasing number of people looking to improve their grows by trying a new nutrient line or product when in fact there is little to no correlation between plant health and any one product or line. Instead, there is a direct correlation between the nutrient profile you develop with your line and the health of the plants being profiled.

I will however deal with nutrient profiles and their application more in depth in another thread that covers whole nutrient lines. The basis of this thread will be understanding N-P-K guaranteed total analysis, actual available ppm analysis, and how to apply that understanding to a variety of bloom boosters on the market.

First, let me start by saying ppm meters do not measure parts per million. Ppm meters measure Electric conductivity which is then converted (different meters convert at different rates) into a “ppm figure.” As if the conversion factor was not inaccurate enough, meters measure total EC. This means along with the elements available for plant up-take the meter is also reading dissolved solids that are dyes, preservatives, fillers, or anything else that happens to be in the solution. For these reasons meters contain an inherently unacceptable level of error for the use of nutrient profiles and we must turn to math for these purposes.

Developing nutrient profiles from scratch begins with the guaranteed total analysis or the N-P-K listed on each nutrient label. By law the numbers listed for N-P-K are listed in percents and are a percentage of the total amount of nutrient. For example 0-50-30 means the nutrient contains 0% total N, 50% total P, and 30% total K. These numbers however are often misleading because total N, total P and total K is not the same as available N, available P and available k.

Now, plants are only able to uptake elements that are both 1) inorganic, and 2) in their most simple ionic form. In the case of N, P, and K those forms are NO3, and NH4 (N); HPO4 (P); and K+ (K). So, before Guaranteed total analysis can be converted into an actual available ppm analysis you must identify the forms of N-P-K that are provided and the percentage at which they oxidize into forms that are usable by the plants.

In the case of the boosters in question N is provided as NO3 and no conversion is necessary. P is converted from P2O5 at a rate of 43.6% useable (HPO4) P. And K is converted from K2O at a rate of 83% useable (K+) K.

Now that we have our oxidization rates we can begin with solutions. Because ml/mg per liter is already in ppm the starting point is there. 1g per liter means 1000 ppm have been added to solution. So, divide the 1000 ppm by the N-P-K ratios to find the guaranteed total ppm. Then, total ppms are divided by available forms of the element. Then the actual available ppm is divided by 3.785 to arrive at the actual available ppm analysis for 1g per gallon of each booster.

Here is the math:

Guaranteed Total analysis:
Guaranteed Total analysis: Open sesame
N 5
P 45
K 19

Guaranteed Total analysis: Beastie bloomz
N 0
P 50
K 30

Guaranteed Total analysis: Cha-Ching
N 9
P 50
K 10

Guaranteed Total analysis: Moab
N 0
P 50
K 30

Garanteed Total analysis: Shooting Powder
N 0
P 9
K 20


mg/ml per liter is ppm:

1g/liter total ppm: Open sesame
N 50
P 450
K 190

1g/liter total ppm: Beastie bloomz
N 0
P 500
K 300

1g/liter total ppm: Cha-Ching
N 90
P 500
K 100

1g/liter total ppm: Moab
N 0
P 500
K 300

1g/liter total ppm: Shooting Powder
N 0
P 90
K 200

In these cases N-P-K are provided as N: (NO3) P: (P2O5) K: (K2O). However plants can only uptake elements in their most simple (inorganic) ionic form. So N is up takable in the forms of NO3 and NH4, P in the form of HPO4 and K in the form of K+. In the case of P, 43.6% of P2O5 oxidizes into usable HPO4. In the case of K, 83% of the K2O becomes the usable form K+.

Actual Available ppm:
1g/liter actual available ppm: Open sesame
N 50 X 1 = 50
P 450 X .436 = 196.2
K 190 X.83 = 157.7

1g/liter actual available ppm: Beastie bloomz
N 0
P 500 X .436 = 218
K 300 X.83 = 249

1g/liter actual available ppm: Cha-Ching
N 90 X 1 = 90
P 500 X .436 = 218
K 100 X .83 = 83

1g/liter actual available ppm: Moab
N 0
P 500 X .436 = 218
K 300 X.83 = 249

1g/liter actual available ppm: Shooting Powder
N 0
P 90 X .436 = 39.24
K 200 X .83 = 166

And from 1 liter to 1 gallon: (/3.785)

1g/gal actual available ppm: Open sesame
N 50 X 1 = 50 =13.21
P 450 X .436 = 196.2 = 51.84
K 190 X.83 = 157.7 = 41.66

1g/liter actual available ppm: Beastie bloomz
N 0 = 0
P 500 X .436 = 218 = 56.8
K 300 X.83 = 249 = 65.78

1g/liter actual available ppm: Cha-Ching
N 90 X 1 = 90 = 23.78
P 500 X .436 = 218 = 57.60
K 100 X .83 = 83 = 21.93

1g/liter actual available ppm: Moab
N 0 = 0
P 500 X .436 = 218 = 56.8
K 300 X.83 = 249 = 65.78

1g/liter actual available ppm: Shooting Powder
N 0
P 90 X .436 = 39.24 = 10.37
K 200 X .83 = 166 = 43.86

So, 1 gram per gallon of these products yields the following actual available ppm nutrient profiles:

Final Actual available ppm analysis (1g per gallon):

Open sesame:
N 13.21
P 51.84
K 41.66

Beastie bloomz:
N 0
P 56.8
K 65.78

Cha-Ching:
N 23.78
P 57.60
K 21.93

Moab:
N 0
P 56.8
K 65.78

Shooting Powder:
N 0
P 10.37
K 43.86
 
Snowblind

Snowblind

Kush Mints x Animal Cookie Bx2 Specialist
Supporter
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Thanks for posting the ppms of those boosters!

Great work as always Desertsquirrel!

Always like your posts.
 
Snowblind

Snowblind

Kush Mints x Animal Cookie Bx2 Specialist
Supporter
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163
Had a friend bring over a scale.

1ML of Uncle Jacks Hydro formula is 1.6 Grams.
1ML of Uncle Jacks Cal Nitrate is 1.5 Grams.

So with that in mind how does this nutrient profile look?

Uncle Jacks Hydro at 2.5ML or 4 Grams.
Uncle Jacks Cal Nitrate at 1.5ML or 2.25 Grams.


Hydro
N - 52.5
P - 55.0
K - 227.5
MG - 67.5
S - 87.5
C - 0

Cal Nitrate
N - 92
C - 107

Total

N - 144.0
P - 55.0
K - 227.5
MG - 67.5
S - 87.5
C - 106.5

2.61-1-4.13 N to P to K ratio.

I think that looks pretty good if you are using RO water or if your tap is not too high in Calcium. Now just dilute it a little(80% Str) until the P approaches the lower 40 ppm range. You could cut back the NaCo3 a touch for a "PK" blast and try running 50+ppm of P to see what happens for a week.


At 80% should be approx...
n=115
p=44
k=182
ca=85
mg=54(you will add epsom to play it safe)
 
E

ECOutlaw

69
8
Was wondering if anyone is running the Jack's Hydroponic in a soilless media like Promix HP or Sunshine #4? Thanks
 
Snowblind

Snowblind

Kush Mints x Animal Cookie Bx2 Specialist
Supporter
1,074
163
I know a guy that used it to Drain to Waste in cocco and made amazing plants.

His name is YosemiteSam and he posts here at the farm every once and awhile.
 
skywalkerOG

skywalkerOG

173
43
Snowblind: Does it matter what kind of epsom I pick up? I see they sell it at JR Peters but I also notice they sell just plain old epsom in stores.

When using epsom how many PPM do you think I should boost the MG? I'm working with Tahoe & Chem-D both of which are calmag whores.
 
Snowblind

Snowblind

Kush Mints x Animal Cookie Bx2 Specialist
Supporter
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Im using plain old epsom from the store. I mix 1 gram of epsom for each gallon of water for Mg hungry strains. So a 50 gallon reso gets 50 grams.

1/2 gram per gallon might be enough , but I go 1 gram to be safe.

Not sure of the total ppm, the plants will let you know if they need more Mg.
 
iscrog4food

iscrog4food

630
28
Ok so I am sold on the jacks formula. Gonna try a 25 lb bag of each and see what the result is. Can someone post pics of some jacks plants?
 
wobbly goblin

wobbly goblin

570
93
Ok so I am sold on the jacks formula. Gonna try a 25 lb bag of each and see what the result is. Can someone post pics of some jacks plants?

i have a few bud shots in my gallery from jack's fed plants

fwiw
 
Snowblind

Snowblind

Kush Mints x Animal Cookie Bx2 Specialist
Supporter
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Heres a bud I grew using only Jacks...

Its OG Raskals Straw Mix Alien pheno......we called it the "Tarantula"....

I had six colas on this one plant. This cola was the biggest. The yield was high....and I dont know what im doing.
 
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Chronic Monster

Chronic Monster

1,146
113
+rep snowblind :) I got some jacks myself, going to use up all my old nutrients and make the switch ... thanks everyone in this thread for the great info sharing :hi:
 
I

ibTheMan

1,571
36
Get you some Jungle juice if you can find it, good stuff and its $65 for three, four Liter jugs, great deal.
 
Snowblind

Snowblind

Kush Mints x Animal Cookie Bx2 Specialist
Supporter
1,074
163
Keep in mind, great genetics make great bud. I was working with OGRaskal seeds so thats a big part of why that bud is so big!
 
A

AliasAO

660
18
Heres a bud I grew using only Jacks...

Its OG Raskals Straw Mix Alien pheno......we called it the "Tarantula"....

I had six colas on this one plant. This cola was the biggest. The yield was high....and I dont know what im doing.



"Dont know what Im doing"... My asssssssssss... haha

To be specific Is it Jacks Classic Nutes that you use??
found here at www.jacksclassic.com ?
 
motherlode

motherlode

@Rolln_J
Supporter
5,524
313
anybody use the Grow More nutes

they have a 3 part - cal mag - silica and bunch of other stuff

just got a sample of the 3 part to try - not sure where I can incorporate

that in any projects at the moment
 
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