Cheap alternatives to overpriced hydroponic nutrients

[Jabapc]

been a Jacks user for about 2 years ..3 grams Jacks 2 grams Cal Nit at 80% strength and citric acid for ph down in veg..switch to Phosphoric acid and add .5 grams epsoms in bloom very simple very cheap and works really well.good luck.... Jabapc

 

[ttystikk]

been a Jacks user for about 2 years ..3 grams Jacks 2 grams Cal Nit at 80% strength and citric acid for ph down in veg..switch to Phosphoric acid and add .5 grams epsoms in bloom very simple very cheap and works really well.good luck.... Jabapc

Overthinking nutrients had led many a grower to spend too much on them. This is good for nutrient companies, not so good for the grower.

 

[Fresh Starts]

Ok someone just told me the 3-2-1 formula was wrong. He is a credible dude but i am not sure of it. He was telling me to change to 3/8tsp of Hydro and Calnit. Something about the ratio being 1:.67. I was trying to find this info on icmag but was unable to locate it. Can anyone here educate on this little change?

Not sure if this has been posted before on this thread but it's worth a review.

The mixing ratio that is recommended by JR Peters is Hydro/Cal-Nit @ 1/.67- Let that sink in.

The easiest way to mix is by EC/ppm meter.
Example a:
To mix for a desired ppm of 900
Mix Jacks hydro to 540
Mix Cal/Nit to 360

360/540= .67 ratio

The following equation can be used to mix to a desired ppm level.
x= Desired ppm (250, 400, 800 etc.)
a= Jacks hydro ppm
b= Cal/Nit ppm

(x/1.66666667)= a
(x-a)=b

Check your work by doing this:
b/a= .67

 

[GR33NL3AF]

Great post @Fresh Starts ...
What are some of the peak EC/PPM readings people are hitting in Peat and Coco?
Highest i've gone with Peat is 850-900 ppms, my coco....600-700ppms

 

[ttystikk]

Great post @Fresh Starts ...
What are some of the peak EC/PPM readings people are hitting in Peat and Coco?
Highest i've gone with Peat is 850-900 ppms, my coco....600-700ppms

I'm in RDWC, I run Jacks. The formula I was put in was;
2.5g Jacks Professional
2.0g calcium nitrate
0.5g epsom salts

I run it at 1.8 ec. Works like the Dickens!

 

[ttystikk]

Not sure if this has been posted before on this thread but it's worth a review.

The mixing ratio that is recommended by JR Peters is Hydro/Cal-Nit @ 1/.67- Let that sink in.

The easiest way to mix is by EC/ppm meter.
Example a:
To mix for a desired ppm of 900
Mix Jacks hydro to 540
Mix Cal/Nit to 360

360/540= .67 ratio

The following equation can be used to mix to a desired ppm level.
x= Desired ppm (250, 400, 800 etc.)
a= Jacks hydro ppm
b= Cal/Nit ppm

(x/1.66666667)= a
(x-a)=b

Check your work by doing this:
b/a= .67

Waitaminute- you're doing this ratio by PPM, and NOT by dry mass of ingredients?! Because calcium nitrate does not register nearly as much on the ppm scale as it weighs on a scale, relative to the Jacks.

Let's make certain on this point?

 

[Fresh Starts]

Waitaminute- you're doing this ratio by PPM, and NOT by dry mass of ingredients?! Because calcium nitrate does not register nearly as much on the ppm scale as it weighs on a scale, relative to the Jacks.

Let's make certain on this point?

That is correct- I am using a .5 conversion PPM pen to achieve a .67 ratio between Jacks hydro and Cal/Nit.

 

[ttystikk]

That is correct- I am using a .5 conversion PPM pen to achieve a .67 ratio between Jacks hydro and Cal/Nit.

If this is the case, then I'm doing it wrong and so is everyone who has discussed how to use it.

 

[urbanfog]

With their "dirty" and +life line....things are pretty easy. Add a good soil/soiless base, ph and go from there

 

[Fresh Starts]

If this is the case, then I'm doing it wrong and so is everyone who has discussed how to use it.

I don't think everyone here is doing it wrong. Maybe I missed a point in the conversation where people were trying to achieve a specific nutrient profile and the topic of how to apply that profile has preceded before us. ?

I was simply trying to state how the manufacturer intended the product to be used. And that is to mix their Hydro and Cal/nit @ a 1/.67 ratio.

Mixing the two by equal volume (or close to it) will yield a near .67 ratio as I understand it- is that what everyone is doing over here? This topic is old over at the Mag. I've been following people like dizzlekush and yosemitesam over there and that's where I pulled all my info so I know that the ratio (or nutrient profile) I've been using is legit. I also have a manufactures mixing instructions sheet that came with my last order from JR Peters that details the .67 mixing ratio as well. I'll try to copy that information here verbatim if that will clear anything up.

 

[ttystikk]

I don't think everyone here is doing it wrong. Maybe I missed a point in the conversation where people were trying to achieve a specific nutrient profile and the topic of how to apply that profile has preceded before us. ?

I was simply trying to state how the manufacturer intended the product to be used. And that is to mix their Hydro and Cal/nit @ a 1/.67 ratio.

Mixing the two by equal volume (or close to it) will yield a near .67 ratio as I understand it- is that what everyone is doing over here? This topic is old over at the Mag. I've been following people like dizzlekush and yosemitesam over there and that's where I pulled all my info so I know that the ratio (or nutrient profile) I've been using is legit. I also have a manufactures mixing instructions sheet that came with my last order from JR Peters that details the .67 mixing ratio as well. I'll try to copy that information here verbatim if that will clear anything up.

It's not the ratio that has me worked up, it's how you measure it; you wanted to use ec last night, this post says volume- and everyone else says by weight, using a green scale. These are very different methods and will give very different ratios.

 

[GR33NL3AF]

With their "dirty" and +life line....things are pretty easy. Add a good soil/soiless base, ph and go from there

Youre talking about a different dry fertilizer product...

 

[ttystikk]

It's not the ratio that has me worked up, it's how you measure it; you wanted to use ec last night, this post says volume- and everyone else says by weight, using a gram scale. These are very different methods and will give very different ratios.

For clarity; I'm not here to bust the new guy's chops; if he brings relevant information to the table, that's valuable. If he's making an error when measuring his nutes, wouldn't he like to know that as well as the rest of us?

I'm under the impression that I measure Jacks Professional Hydroponic mix and amendments by weight. If that's correct, then @Fresh Starts needs to know that. If WE have been doing it wrong all this time... well, I've recently had that experience. It makes you feel a bit sheepish, but you get over it.

 

[tweedy]

It's not the ratio that has me worked up, it's how you measure it; you wanted to use ec last night, this post says volume- and everyone else says by weight, using a green scale. These are very different methods and will give very different ratios.

The link keeps fucking up when I try to post it but jr peters has a WordPress blog and if you search google for it and their 5 12 26 they have mixing instructions for a 10 gallon tank. Its in line with the .67 method. Straight from the horses mouth.

the link may or may not work now.

 

[ttystikk]

The link keeps fucking up when I try to post it but jr peters has a WordPress blog and if you search google for it and their 5 12 26 they have mixing instructions for a 10 gallon tank. Its in line with the .67 method. Straight from the horses mouth.

the link may or may not work now.

Not working, but what we have is confusion over units to use, not the ratio itself. The 1:.67 is confusing as hell, what's wrong with saying 3:2?!

Generally Accepted Units = weight
Mentioned last night; measuring by EC
Also mentioned; measuring by volume

 

[Fresh Starts]

Not working, but what we have is confusion over units to use, not the ratio itself. The 1:.67 is confusing as hell, what's wrong with saying 3:2?!

Generally Accepted Units = weight
Mentioned last night; measuring by EC
Also mentioned; measuring by volume

This post has been copied from the Mag. Mods, I am sorry if this violates any rules but for the sake of clarity and knowledge let this post end our confusion!

Originally Posted by Jabapc
I'm about ready to start my first grow using Jacks hydro with cal nit.
my nute formula that I want to try is this per Gal.
2.5 grams Jacks
2.5 grams Cal Nit
1/2 gram epsom salt
1tsp Dyna Gro Pro Tekt

if I'm right about this it should give me ppm of

N P K Ca Mg S SI
135 35 190 125 59 61 90

how does it look and any suggestions

oh yeah I'm gonna wait on the Fulvic Acid untill I get this worked out Thanks

Originally posted by Delta9nxs:
mixing equal weight is wrong. their instructions show several ways to mix it.

they recommend equal volume.

however, as snook mentioned, the best way to mix is by ec or ppm.

you also won't need any magnesium sulfate, the base formula has over 6% magnesium.

i'm going to assume that you don't have a meter and that's why you are talking about mixing by weight.

if you take a 1/4 teaspoon plus a 1/8 teaspoon of each, 3/8 teaspoon total of each, you will get approx 750 ppm or ec 1.5. this is per gallon.

if you do have a meter, you don't need to measure water volume.

600 ppm is 360 ppm jacks and 240 ppm calcinit 240/360=.67

750 ppm is 450 ppm jacks and 300 ppm calcinit 300/450=.67

900 ppm is 540 ppm jacks and 360 ppm calcinit 540/360=.67

i cannot imagine a situation where you will need a solution stronger than this.

i have grown a 22.5 oz plant in a 3.5 gal container of coco with 600 ppm for life with no displays or problems, no additives or boosters or even ph adjusters.

if you mix it properly you won't have any ph issues.

the ratio is 1/.67 jacks/calcinit


OK, look. I think you are just confused about this whole thing. The way you are mixing by weight (which is close to equal volume - am I right?) produces the manufactures suggested dosage. Now- you can also mix by EC/ppm as Delta9nxs (from the Mag) and I have outlined above. We are both working towards the same ratio homie.

 

[ttystikk]

This post has been copied from the Mag. Mods, I am sorry if this violates any rules but for the sake of clarity and knowledge let this post end our confusion!

Originally Posted by Jabapc
I'm about ready to start my first grow using Jacks hydro with cal nit.
my nute formula that I want to try is this per Gal.
2.5 grams Jacks
2.5 grams Cal Nit
1/2 gram epsom salt
1tsp Dyna Gro Pro Tekt

if I'm right about this it should give me ppm of

N P K Ca Mg S SI
135 35 190 125 59 61 90

how does it look and any suggestions

oh yeah I'm gonna wait on the Fulvic Acid untill I get this worked out Thanks

Originally posted by Delta9nxs:
mixing equal weight is wrong. their instructions show several ways to mix it.

they recommend equal volume.

however, as snook mentioned, the best way to mix is by ec or ppm.

you also won't need any magnesium sulfate, the base formula has over 6% magnesium.

i'm going to assume that you don't have a meter and that's why you are talking about mixing by weight.

if you take a 1/4 teaspoon plus a 1/8 teaspoon of each, 3/8 teaspoon total of each, you will get approx 750 ppm or ec 1.5. this is per gallon.

if you do have a meter, you don't need to measure water volume.

600 ppm is 360 ppm jacks and 240 ppm calcinit 240/360=.67

750 ppm is 450 ppm jacks and 300 ppm calcinit 300/450=.67

900 ppm is 540 ppm jacks and 360 ppm calcinit 540/360=.67

i cannot imagine a situation where you will need a solution stronger than this.

i have grown a 22.5 oz plant in a 3.5 gal container of coco with 600 ppm for life with no displays or problems, no additives or boosters or even ph adjusters.

if you mix it properly you won't have any ph issues.

the ratio is 1/.67 jacks/calcinit


OK, look. I think you are just confused about this whole thing. The way you are mixing by weight (which is close to equal volume - am I right?) produces the manufactures suggested dosage. Now- you can also mix by EC/ppm as Delta9nxs (from the Mag) and I have outlined above. We are both working towards the same ratio homie.

Mixing by weight is different than mixing by volume or ec, as this post pointed out... which did not clarify which is the 'correct' method.

I've been doing it by weight. My results are good, but were recently improved by altering the ratio somewhat (I was using cal-mag unnecessarily, not a Jacks issue).

The reason I'm pounding away at this seemingly fine point is that if I'm STILL not getting the most out of my Jacks, I'd certainly like to see what I'm missing!

 

[Fresh Starts]

Mixing by weight is different than mixing by volume or ec, as this post pointed out... which did not clarify which is the 'correct' method.

I've been doing it by weight. My results are good, but were recently improved by altering the ratio somewhat (I was using cal-mag unnecessarily, not a Jacks issue).

The reason I'm pounding away at this seemingly fine point is that if I'm STILL not getting the most out of my Jacks, I'd certainly like to see what I'm missing!

If you are missing out on anything it's the ease of mixing with a meter as opposed to weighing it out. I can't imagine having to do that every time I mixed- shit I find mixing by meter tedious as it is.

 

[HG23]

Jack's is meant to be mixed at 3:2 by weight of the undissolved salts. That's how it's listed on the package and website. They talk about using .5tsp of each to mix a gallon, but it even says on the site they do not recommend it. That is just a rough estimate to get the 3:2 weight ratio and it's not perfect. As you increase the total amounts you're mixing by volume, the difference will become greater and ion ratios will not be as intended. As you can tell from looking, the Jack's is a much finer grain, therefore packs in and weighs more per unit volume than Cal-nit so equal volumes of the dried salts will come out approximately 3:2 by weight, but not nearly as exact as using a scale. Seems like more of a technique to use if you just need to mix a quick gallon to water some house plants or something.

Fresh Start, the user Delta9nxs that you quoted above goes on later in that thread to say it's simply a coincidence of the salt combinations used that mixing by TDS meter also comes out to nearly 3:2 by weight. Seeing as the manufacturer recommends mixing by weighing the dry salts, I would say that's the best bet. It should also be noted that if you're not using 0ppm RO water to start, you need to subtract the reading of your starting water when mixing by TDS meter. It just seems like more chance for error than using two weights. Plus, I personally don't like the idea of throwing the pure Cal-nit in a res even if the Jacks is mixed well, I always prefer to premix each in a gallon or two which can't be done with the TDS method. Unless you're making and using stock solutions...

I'm sure the TDS method might work out fine for some, but it's not exact, especially given the quality of some meters out there. I've had way more meters fail and start giving odd readings then scales. And if you already know the volume of water you need to mix, weighing out two containers of salts takes a couple minutes at most.

 

[ttystikk]

@HG23 Thanks for the detail. I'm interested in exact ratios to drive variability OUT of my setup. I use a gram scale to weigh my nutes, and with two buckets (one for calcium nitrate, the other for everything else) it is neither slow nor tedious.

http://www .jrpeters. com/Products/Jack-s-Professional/Jack-s-Pro/Specialty-Crop-Formulas/5-12-26-Hydroponic.html

Copy n Close the spaces to access the link to JRPeters' page on mixing Jacks 5-12-26. It did take a bit of digging around on their rather poorly organized website... and it raises more questions than it answers. For now, I'm sticking with the 'by weight' method.