Cheap alternatives to overpriced hydroponic nutrients

[happy b]

Thank you very much basement bob,you have been very helpfull.

 

[GR33NL3AF]

@Fresh Starts are you still running the simple 3-2-1? And are the nutrient ratios you receive from that correct for cannabis? I've ran that method several times and my plants never seemed 100% satisfied, environmental variables aside.. I ran the V + B this round and was very pleased with it. In all honesty I feel the simplicity of it outweighs the minor price difference. I'm thinking V + B with Sea Green FTW..

 

[Fresh Starts]

I am still currently using the 3-2-1 recipe for now.. and I understand what you are talking about when you say your plants are not satisfied. I have nothing but good things to say about Sea Green, although it can get pricey. I have observed that certain species will function better on jacks than others, for this reason I'm developing different raw salts recipes that are more flexible. One of the things I've encountered are Mg deficient plants with intervienal chlorosis. Foliar spraying epsom salts helped but I had to bump up the Mg levels quite a bit to get everything back into swing. I've now started using 1.2 grams per gallon of Mg during early irrigations in new coco. Also, Botanicare coco has been giving me such a headache because of their buffering agents. The PH wants to stay high- so an initial acidic irrigation of 5.0-5.5 is what I'm looking at doing now before transplanting. Just my latest findings fwiw.

@happy b
You can use bleach like this to kill that root rot:
Using 8% Sodium Hypochlorite (regular non scented bleach)
Dilute 100ml Bleach into 1 Gallon water.
Use the above solution @10 ml per gallon of rez solution to initially kill everything off for a few days. Then bump the doses down to 5ml per gallon once everything is looking better. A preventative 2ml per gallon will keep the root rot away. You should be mindful of dissolving oxygen into the system and keeping water temps below 75 degrees as well. Good luck

 

[basement bob]

@Fresh Starts

Thanks for helping with the proper dosage of bleach. I knew it was somewhere around here.

Bob

 

[cheech]

Just wanted to pop in and say hi. Still using the 3-2-1 as well for at least the 2nd year. I've experimented with two variations so far, and wanted to share my results for the one variation. I was running it 2-3-1 in veg and the first two weeks of bloom. The plants looked healthy, but the stems became very hard and would crack easily rather than bend. I believe it was too much nitrogen. When I switched back to 3-2-1 they rebounded. I would not run that variation again.

The other variation was 3-2-1 in veg, but a 20 percent reduction in calnite 2 to 3 weeks into flower. That's what I'm using as my flower formula at the recommendation of turbo I believe. The harvests don't make me want to switch nutrients, but my fan leaves start showing symptoms of something at about week 6, which I'm certain is my fault and not the nutrients. I would like some ideas and will post pics later. I think it's something as simple as under or over feeding, or maybe just the fact that my wpsf is on the high side and the brightness is starting to take its toll.

Also I did purchase the hydrofeed in hopes of not having to weight out multiple salts, and regret not calling JR peters first. It looked like it was hyro/calnite/epsom mixed up together. I don't feel comfortable using it indoors.

 

[Camdawg]

@cheech so veg: 3-2-1. flower/2wk into flower: 3-1.7-1
I think I ran it at 1000-1200 ppm/watered down just a bit from full strength. To be honest I used RO for my nute solution then diluted down with tap water.
Thats more or less what turbo recommend to me and it worked great.

I used sea green every feed at .5ml-1ml and saw almost nothing but green leaves and beautiful buds.

 

[cheech]

Camdawg. Nice.

I run tap, which comes out at .3 ec. That mix takes my 40 gal brute reservoir to 1.8 when I fill it to the top. So I'm pretty much running 1.5 ec through the whole cycle with quite a bit of runoff to try to maintain that ec and my desired ph. Running in flock rock wool.

Very happy with the results and have been hitting personal bests in yield. I'll get a photo of some leaf damage. I think it's more or less not effecting yield in all honesty. I've had plants further away from the lights that end up with picture perfect foliage compared to bleached out plants. The buds don't turn out nearly as heavy and resinous as the plants that were closer to the lights though.

So glad I made the switch Jacks, and thank CAP for creating this thread and helping to open the eyes of growers that hydro nutes are the equivalent to work out supplements. They'll never trump proper training and a good diet.

Shout out to mbferts too. Haven't done side by sides, but I do use their vitaboost every watering, and their prices are right on equipment. Plus they are local to me.

 

[Fresh Starts]

So glad I made the switch Jacks, and thank CAP for creating this thread and helping to open the eyes of growers that hydro nutes are the equivalent to work out supplements.

Don't get me wrong, @Capulator is one of the main contributors but the thread was started by @Chronic Monster.
Let it be written, let it be told.

 

[cheech]

Oh, my bad. Thanks Chronic Monster! And whoever started the thread at IC as well. Good stuff.

 

[aucado54]

Nice article..... I have a ways to go before I can fully appreciate the text.

 

[happy b]

I am still currently using the 3-2-1 recipe for now.. and I understand what you are talking about when you say your plants are not satisfied. I have nothing but good things to say about Sea Green, although it can get pricey. I have observed that certain species will function better on jacks than others, for this reason I'm developing different raw salts recipes that are more flexible. One of the things I've encountered are Mg deficient plants with intervienal chlorosis. Foliar spraying epsom salts helped but I had to bump up the Mg levels quite a bit to get everything back into swing. I've now started using 1.2 grams per gallon of Mg during early irrigations in new coco. Also, Botanicare coco has been giving me such a headache because of their buffering agents. The PH wants to stay high- so an initial acidic irrigation of 5.0-5.5 is what I'm looking at doing now before transplanting. Just my latest findings fwiw.

@happy b
You can use bleach like this to kill that root rot:
Using 8% Sodium Hypochlorite (regular non scented bleach)
Dilute 100ml Bleach into 1 Gallon water.
Use the above solution @10 ml per gallon of rez solution to initially kill everything off for a few days. Then bump the doses down to 5ml per gallon once everything is looking better. A preventative 2ml per gallon will keep the root rot away. You should be mindful of dissolving oxygen into the system and keeping water temps below 75 degrees as well. Good luck

Thank you @Fresh Starts.i appreciate you taking the time to answer.someone else mentioned bleach but for some reason they took exception to the way i asked and they didnt know the exact dosage.thanks again @Fresh Starts

 

[KungFuCanna]

Hey All,

First post - signed up for this question and will continue here since I have 50 pounds of jacks and you guys seem to be the ones in the know.

I have read most of this thread off and on for the last 2 months and I "think" I have read that Jacks does not really need to have a final flush.......... I don't see a tool to search this thread to confirm.

I have googled till my eyes hurt and always get to the flush or not to flush debates. From what I gather is sounds like you do for those running real strong nutes ....... but a lot of articles I have read say when flushing take the PPM down to 500 or so. Being I have been running Jacks at the 3/2 600 ppm basic I am not sure if it is needed.

Any one got some good insight on this for me?

Just FYI:
First run trail grow in the tropics (Central America - US Ex-Pat)
OxyPot Ebb and Flow - 100% Aged Rice hulls
LED's - Advanced and Top Led lights
4x8 tent w/ 6' fan and scrubber - Dehumidifier last 3 weeks and I run up to 85 F w/ lights on
RO Water

Thanks in advance,
KFC

 

[Surfandgrow]

Last week of flower water at 15% normal nute strength to run off. End debate.

 

[KungFuCanna]

I like the conviction :)

Last week of flower water at 15% normal nute strength to run off. End debate.

I ended up compromising @ 33% for what looks like 5 days......... I will report back within a month.
KFC

 

[plumbum]

The only thing I have to say is that @dizzlekush definitely knows his shit!

Right now I am running:

1.5 grams JPH
2.8 grams CaNO3
.7 grams Agsil
.2 grams MKP
.3 grams MAP
.5 grams K2SO4

View attachment 456697

first post. hi farmers!

Capulator, i am big fan of biowar gear.. i plugged your numbers to hydrobuddy and your Mg looks low at 25ppm. I remember reading in the past that you used to add 1g/gal MgSO4, did you stop using it? I understand that you are using tap water - what ppm of Mg is in your water?

Is this formula for sativa? or you use it for everything?

thank you!

 

[Capulator]

first post. hi farmers!

Capulator, i am big fan of biowar gear.. i plugged your numbers to hydrobuddy and your Mg looks low at 25ppm. I remember reading in the past that you used to add 1g/gal MgSO4, did you stop using it? I understand that you are using tap water - what ppm of Mg is in your water?

Is this formula for sativa? or you use it for everything?

thank you!

Sorry brother I add 1 gram per gallon at least of epsom salt. That will push the Mg to 50+

There is very little Mg in my tap, but around 50-60 ppm Ca... yet another reason I switched to tap. IMHO jacks doesn't have enough Ca and when you try to manipulate for it with CaNO3, you can over do the N, which is why a lot of people including myself will add CaCl2.

With tap you don't have to worry so much... at least Los Angels tap that shit has mad Ca.

 

[plumbum]

thank you Capulator for clearing it up! makes sense. i didn't realized LA tap has so much Calcium.

looking at your numbers i've also noticed that your Potassium level for veg is just over 200. i just want to make sure this is correct. i haven't used numbers as high in veg, but it does make sense when you compare Potassium levels from food production.

another question, not sure if you have answered it before.. i remember you've been using just straight raw salts. what made you go back to Jack?

thank you

 

[MGRox]

Ok I have some questions with these last couple of Profile posts from Capulator. I wonder if anyone could clear it up for me...

I said I would post this up so here it is:

For all of my strains I run this now, and as long as I water to runoff everything blows up.

Veg:

149:45:118:47:75:136 (N: P :K:Mg:S:Ca) <--- 128ppm NO3, 21ppm NH4

Bloom (starting week 4):

Same as above but I take out the MAP, Switch for MKP and reduce CaNO3 by 20%

114:45:148:47:75:109 <----- 7ppm NH4



This is a great raw salts formula. I am also adding organics (kelp, fishmeal, wormcastings) dry between runs.

weeks 6 and 7 I add molasses 5ml/gal.

Last week only water.


To achieve the formulas I use jacks hydro 5-12-26 @ 1.5 grams, MAP @ 0.4 grams or MKP @0.4 grams (veg or bloom), K2SO4 @ 0.3 grams , CaNO3 @ 2.85 or 2.3 grams, and epsom salt @ 1 gram.

per gallon of course.

I do use AN ph down at 1mL per gal as well. LA city tap water.

This has been in use for roughly 8 months now and I am doing very well with it. So well that I stopped tinkering.

The only thing I have to say is that @dizzlekush definitely knows his shit!

Right now I am running:

1.5 grams JPH
2.8 grams CaNO3
.7 grams Agsil
.2 grams MKP
.3 grams MAP
.5 grams K2SO4

View attachment 456697
At the end of stretch I drop the CaNO3 30% to around 2 grams/gal, eliminate the MAP and bump up the MKP to .5 g/gal and bump the K2SO4 to .6

Ok so one question was already clarified; which is that the last quoted profile here DOES have Epsom @ 1 gm per gallon.

I note that these two profiles are "nearly" identical in components and quantities. However, "Agsil" is NOT listed in the first profile from capulator, but I assume it was being used there; is this correct? I'm pretty sure, since he's always used silica in the past, that it was being used there; but wanted to find out for sure.

If I look up Agsil I find that 0.7 grams in 1 gallon of water is Equal to Pro-tekt @ 1 Teaspoon per gallon. This is 98 ppm SiO2 and 49 ppm K (according to Agsil label). If I plug in the same amount of pro-tekt into my calculator it is close. 4.92 mls = 1 teaspoon and yields 107 Si and 34 ppm K. In either case with this, we are adding appx 40 ppm of K.

So then my question with the first quoted profile; Were you using Agsil with this formula and why (if so) is the K not added into the formula? Shouldn't those first profiles be closer to:

149:45:167:47:75:136 (N: P :K:Mg:S:Ca) <--- 128ppm NO3, 21ppm NH4
and
114:45:197:47:75:109 <----- 7ppm NH4

(to point out I guess; if I do these in my calc I come up with slighly different numbers but within 2-3 ppm. E.g. veg I come up with 145 - 45 - 153 - 51 - 80 - 136 (N: P :K:Mg:S:Ca)



If we DO add the Potassium from Agsil above, then the profiles are much closer to your most recent mix listed (second quote).

For the second quote and including the K from your Agsil along with epsom, I come up with;

139:51:189:51:90:133 (N: P :K:Mg:S:Ca) for Veg
and
99:51:223:51:94:95 (N P :K:Mg:S:Ca) for bloom

Now again, I use pro-tekt which comes to 34 ppm of K instead of Agsil 49 ppm of K; so your K numbers would be another 15 ppm higher with Agsil I guess.

For more questions;

--Are you really dropping to 100 ppm of N after the stretch??
--For bloom this ends up with a K:N ratio of 2.24:1 This is considerably higher than Jacks' 321 or early jacks profiles; is this correct?
--Last, you mention that you also add CaCl, but don't have it shown in any profiles; how much of that do you add to these profiles (just to know the correct Ca amount).

Thanks and sorry for all the questions, just want to clarify.

 

[Owlfarm]

I just emailed jr peters and described how I was using the formula. I said I had an indoor deep water culture system and used 3 parts 5-12-26 to 1.8 parts 15-0-0 all the way through. They replied back and said that was exactly the way to do it. The only thing they recommended was to only use 10-30-20 at budset for two weeks, then resume the original formula.
Anybody try this out? I'm thinking of trying it out once I get back on my feet after battling broad mites..

 

[Tony69]

Owlfarm, no mention of Epsom salt added to your J.R. Peters?