Cheap alternatives to overpriced hydroponic nutrients

[JAHGYDI]

started using jacks on the veggies and house plants. there loving it. using up all of my other nutes then making that switch.

 

[Tony69]

Hello Snowblind,

You are running both the Jacks Pro and the new Herb blend. Have you made any decisions on which one you like better yet? Also with the Herb blend which bloom booster are you using?

Thanks.

 

[Capulator]

Lets see how they do. Im sure the 1.6 ec wont leave a N deficiency. If it does a little more Ca Nitrate will solve that problem. 110-125 ppm of N is usually plenty of N for most people. Its Mg that I feel my plants have always needed a touch more of in many formulas.

The root systems are probably a little different on each plant. Some of your plants can uptake the nutes readily the others maybe not quite so much that have the downward curl. I wish we could see all the roots on every plant. Its really the root zone that matters. Everything else, the green growth up top, is an extension of the roots.

Ive always thought it was high P that caused most of the downward curl I see in plants. I could be wrong. The problem should not get any worse. Im excited to see how the plants respond to the formula. Ill try get some more pictures up of my plants in the TarDawg thread.

I dont mix them up in concentrates for mixing. I just weigh them out each time and mix. I do it will my reso is draining so I dont mind.

If you were to combine your stock solution of CaNo3 with the epsom stock solution in a glass together you would see the fallout from flocculation.


There should be no cloudiness or fallout in your reso for the new people reading this! If there is you are doing something wrong.

For clarity:

I have the dry mix stored in small containers.

300 grams hydro in one container
100 grams epsom in another
180 grams CaNO3 in another

I have 3 tupperwares for each week pre weighed. I add these to individual bottles 3/4 full of warm RO (that was the picture). Then, they get added to the res. Im just going to run the same formula straight through to the end, and then next round I will be tweaking a little, possibly even adding my own salts.

 

[Snowblind]

lots of excellent growers use jacks. its a great product. tons of info at icmag.

Ive never read any of this info. Do the growers there use Jacks like I learned to use it? Ill check it out Desertsquirrel. Thanks for the tip. I didnt notice this earlier.

Hello Snowblind,

You are running both the Jacks Pro and the new Herb blend. Have you made any decisions on which one you like better yet? Also with the Herb blend which bloom booster are you using?

Thanks.

I was already into flower when the Bloom Booster and the hydro herb arrived from Peters lab. I did use the hydro herb and the bloosom booster 10-30-20 on the label in one reso that week. After a week I decided to just use the Jacks for the rest of this run, but I might use the hydro herb to finnish because of the incredibly low P. I wanted to find out some information about the hydro herb formula......its 16-4-17 on the label.


1 gram of Jacks Hydro Herb = aprox (I think)

N=44
P=5
K=37
Mg=5
S=0
Ca=11

I would think 2.5 to 2.75 would be the right amount of N so.....2.75g for example might be aprox =

N=121
P=14
K=102
Mg=14
S=0
Ca=30

We know 1 gram of epsoms adds 26 ppm of Mg and 34 ppm of S. I like my Mg to be at least 60-70 for most of the strains I grow. 55ppm or so of Mg might be enough for some people. So if we added 2 grams of epsoms to 2.75 hydro herb we have...

N=121
P=14
K=102
Mg=66
S=68
Ca=30

This is any interesting mix. I dont know what it will do to your plants! You would cut back on the feed by a certain percent on the week or weeks that you use the bloom booster....you need more Calcium depending on your water source too.

I might run a slightly lighter % of this mix with the N a little lower to finnish off my plants this run in a reso just for fun to see what happens.


My current Jacks plants day 32...I have my P at 52 ppm this week for a little P boost to see what happens. This is a little high for me..I just used a full dose of the Jacks at 3.7 grams and 1.8 of the Cal Nitrate...On week 3 I spiked with a dose of 4.2 grams per gallon by mistake plants didnt seem to mind except for a touch of tip burn as to be expected with higher P levels......Remember most PH down...ie GH adds a few ppms of P to your reso as well. The resins are already there on the plants and the odors are amazing, overwhelming.....

 

[Snowblind]

This is not a stem this is a leaf....it was huge....this is an open tunnel for feeding the plant!!! The aromas from removing the leaves was and is stunning. Its like the leaves bleed or something because they are so full of water and life. This liquid has a crazy smell. I hope you all get to experience what Im talking about. The plants leaves are so thick.

 

[Capulator]

that last pic is so tight. right on SB!

Since switching to 1.6 EC, my plants have definitely taken a turn for the better.

Are you only using jacks, or are there any additives at all that you are applying? Specifically I am interested in whether or not you are using any kind of carb/sugar product.

Yosemite sam swears by this:

I am gong to order some today. It looks like really good stuff, and is a foliar.

 

[Capulator]

check.

Brix mix is discontinued due to the fact that the bags were expanding and breaking/spilling in the warehouses and during shipping.

The rep is however, sending me the recipe so we can make our own...:icon_animal26:

 

[Snowblind]

Nice work Capulator. Im going to look into this. I remember reading a little about it.

I add nothing to my plants at this time except DMZ. Zero additives. Those picture are of plants fed straight Jacks Hydroponic. All ive done is increase the str from 3.0 grams to 3.7grams of Jacks in week 3 and 5 increaseing my P from low 40's to 52.....

 

[Capulator]

Here is the e-mail from the rep at peaceful valley farms. They sell virtually all of these ingredients individually. I think this is a great way to boost brix without adding anything to the res.

Liquid Brix Mix

16.5% Molasses
16.5% Non GMO Pure Malt
25% Phytamin 4-3-4
24% Humax
16.5% Liquid Sulfur
1.5% Therm-X 70

Dry Brix Mix

13% Maxicrop
19% Fertall MB Powdered Chelates
31% Powdered Sugar
37% Diamond K Soluble Sulfate of Potash


Feel free to change the blend to suit your needs and the availability of the ingredients. You don't have to use every ingredient for the mix to be beneficial. For example: If you don't have Phytamin 4-3-4, you could substitute for a liquid fish or a dry fish powder. If you prefer you can use liquid kelp extract in place of maxicrop. If you don't have a trace mineral deficiency you can do without the powdered chelates. Keep in mind that kelps such as maxicrop do provide some trace minerals. If you don't have access to a liquid sulfur just leave it out of the blend.

So there it is. They were selling this at around 120 bucks for a 60 lb bag. I have read that it works REALLY well. I asked the rep to put together a package price list for all the ingredients.

 

[Capulator]

A nice tidbit I read today about micro Elements (Fe, Cu, Mn, Zn, Mo, B, Co)

The availability of some of the micronutrients, particularly Fe, Mn, and Zn, are significantly affected by the pH, particularly in organic mixes. A pH greater than 5.5 can result in a micronutrient deficiency, even if a recommended quantity of that micronutrient has been added to in formulation. The level of a major element, particularly high P, in a rooting medium will affect the uptake of Cu, Fe, Mn, and Zn. Due to this, attention to pH and concentration/balance of macro elements is important to ensure microelement availability.

 

[Oldschoolhydro]

If a person used 7 grams of jacks for a typical 5 gallon dwc bucket (3-3.5 gallon of nutes) that would be good for 1600 water changes out a 25lb bag?

 

[Capulator]

3 gallons solution would be 9 grams of hydro, 3 grams epsom, and roughly 6 grams CaNO3.

By my math you will be going through the "jacks hydro" the fastest.

1 bag= 25 lbs.

25 lbs= 11.36 kg

11.36 kg= 11,360 grahams

11,360 g/3g= 3786 (gallons of solution you can make).



Its 1262 water changes, for one of your buckets. If you had 6 buckets, it would be 210 water changes from one bag of jacks hydro.

if you had a 100gal res, it would be 37.86 water changes, or almost 40 water changes off 1 bag of jacks hydro. if you change your water weekly...thats 40 weeks, or 10 months. Almost a year. Its a pretty good deal if you ask me. :fixed:

You still need the cal nitrate and the magnesium (epsom salt from the drugstore).

Is my math wrong on this one?

 

[organicness]

For an investment of like 80 bucks including shipping... wicked good deal.


Quick Q. What about root promoters like clonex, etc. Some folks, like myself, use just water and clonex for the very beginning 2 weeks or so of a seedling/cutting. Is there something from Peters that could be used for that? Or, do you find that to be unnecessary, and just use a super mild solution of the magic mix?

 

[Snowblind]

I just use the veg formula that ive been running 3.0 jacks, 1.8 or 2.44 of the CaNo3 and I just dilute to whatever ppm I want to feed my seedlings...they are hungry though...

When I mix up my veg res ill reserve some of the nuted water in a side bucket, dilute and use that for seedlings and or cuttings.

I use a diluted Jacks in my aero cloner too. Seems to work ok.

 

[organicness]

I love cure-alls!! Thanks snowblind, I appreciate it.

 

[homebrew420]

I rally can't thank you all enough for the work you have done here. I have got my 1lb of each and will be running with coco. When I have proof of concept in coco and small scale hydro my group will make the switch and KILL it. So pleased to have found this thread. Made me rethink/confirm information that has been accepted as truth for so long. Great work. Saved me an unimaginable about of time. Thanks

Peace

 

[AlwaysSunny]

I don't understand about 90% of this thread. That's all I have to say.

Oh and it looks like I should try this "Jacks" over my Fox Farms eventually for a soil grow.

 

[Capulator]

Spoke with a rep at JR peters today about the micro blend they have. I was hoping to add micros and minerals to facilitate the uptake of more macros. Apparently, if we are using RO water then it is a good idea to add back some micro.



scroll down to find "high quality supplements"

You need to add this in a separate container with water and add it to the main res, after you add the hydro blend. So now, you have a 4 part:

1) hydro
2) high quality supplements
3) epsom
4) cal nitrate

Under specialty products on this site, they sell almost everything you need to mix your own formula. pretty cool.

 

[Hermitian]

Giving your plants a full-spectrum of balanced nutrients for each growth stage is a good idea. There is no need to buy the components independently. Instead, obtain a complete fertilizer that has the appropriate N-P-K ratios plus a complete set of appropriately balanced minor- and micro-nutrients. For Hydroponics, be sure that the formula does not contain the urea form of nitrogen. JR Peters, Grow More, Millers -- they all manufacture 100's of complete formulas including the 2 you are looking for. If you are using RO water you will also need an N-Cal-Mag supplement, but these manufacturers all provide this too. So for each growth stage, you really only need 1 product and perhaps a source of Cal-Mag.

 

[Capulator]

I believe being able to fully control the ratios and ppms/ element is the way to dial in the diet of a strain. If you want to truly master a strain, then knowing how to combine the formulas is a must IMHO.