Cheap alternatives to overpriced hydroponic nutrients

[TreFarmer]

250 ppm of ferts

did this last round

best burn and taste ever

i like it better than "organic" but thats me

dry mixable

ph 5.6

no additives

wk 5

left g13 clone ...right g13 s1

Ahhh.. It IS the squat pheno:) how many beans did you go through?
beautiful work northone... remodding a bit at a time over here.
Thanks for all your posts;)

 

[raincheck]

had 4 s1's ...3 were squat...i liked this one the other two were more like the clone structure ..this is pretty close but i liked the stickiness of the stem

didn't clone it though


please

everyone who is thinking about the use dry mixable nutes:

it works as good as the expensive and embarrassing jug nutes

its a million times cheaper

PLEASE also know that you ONLY need to use 250 ppm's of total ferts

to give you as good as organic taste and burn[my opinion and the few others

who have done this LOW PPM Dry bag nutes "test

on that note i am outta this thread..

p.s. YES only 250 ppm's...not the high ppm's that

have given mineral salts the "chemgaak" bad rap...

250 ppms composed of what elements?

 

[dankworth]

MOAB has thiamine hydrochloride

Word, I had actually known that. I should have clarified and said a PGR.
The response in growth I get to the MOAB/Hammerhead combo takes a day or two to really get going. When I used shooting powder before I saw strong physical reactions within and hour, implying to me the presence of some PGR.
I am hoping that a MOAB duplicate will have the exact same effect as the MOAB from the store. Some nute companies straight up lie about the contents.

 

[raincheck]

Word, I had actually known that. I should have clarified and said a PGR.
The response in growth I get to the MOAB/Hammerhead combo takes a day or two to really get going. When I used shooting powder before I saw strong physical reactions within and hour, implying to me the presence of some PGR.
I am hoping that a MOAB duplicate will have the exact same effect as the MOAB from the store. Some nute companies straight up lie about the contents.

Some if not most. My friends in the hydro sales business have always told me never to trust the labels unless you're in Oregon lol.

 

[raincheck]

n p k and micro's..the ratio is higher N...other people's water

may be different than mine so

i will not get techy

i have found that when they get big they eat more than that..

they will eat it down almost 100 ppm's on a good day


but i like the taste and burn of the herb so much i just top it up to 250 until my

res' week is up..

and you can see they are growing ok

I was running a EC range of anywhere between 1.5-1.2 in an Ebb n flow. I was getting deficiencies all over the place including Manganese. What dry ferts are you referring to?

sad deficient leaves :(

 

[Capulator]

Sometimes toxicities take the form of deficiencies in a visual sense.

It hard to know when you are only relying on what the plant looks like to tell you what is going on. too much of one thing locks out another.. not enough of one thing causes an abundance of another... getting in tune with the ladies takes time and experimentation.

And can I mention that different strains can be so incredibly different in forms of diet/environment...

I think you could easily run your ebb/flo at 1.0 EC and see great results, speaking from experience. I will post my veg formula here soon.

Also, I think the biggest problem with ebb flow is the salt ring it leaves at high tide. Can you flush your pots from the top with some warm tap water pH'd at 6.0 in between change outs? I am lucky enough to have a hot water hose and plumbing, but you can still use pitchers of warm water, or a separate res and pump.

 

[dankworth]

Sometimes toxicities take the form of deficiencies in a visual sense.

It hard to know when you are only relying on what the plant looks like to tell you what is going on. too much of one thing locks out another.. not enough of one thing causes an abundance of another... getting in tune with the ladies takes time and experimentation.

And can I mention that different strains can be so incredibly different in forms of diet/environment...

I think you could easily run your ebb/flo at 1.0 EC and see great results, speaking from experience. I will post my veg formula here soon.

Also, I think the biggest problem with ebb flow is the salt ring it leaves at high tide. Can you flush your pots from the top with some warm tap water pH'd at 6.0 in between change outs? I am lucky enough to have a hot water hose and plumbing, but you can still use pitchers of warm water, or a separate res and pump.

In my experience with ebb & flow, enzymes and drip clean solve the high tide salt ring. But you have to use drip clean from the beginning of your crop. I have seen where someone put out a shitty crop by starting drip clean in middle of flowering.

I use Carefree Enzymes Pond Protector Stage 2. It is 15 mls/100 gals. So my quart will last for over 6000 gallons. I have been using this stuff for a year and a half. I have saved so damn much money vs. hygrozyme.
Hygrozyme's prices are wack.
The Carefree people even have a 'hydroponic formula' with enzymes stated to be tailored to reservoir use. I have not used this yet, and don't know anything about the proposed application rate.

It was Jalisco Kid's posts that first turned me on to this enzyme source. I like how he will make you dig for a while to find the thing he talks about. It separates the committed from the rest.

 

[skywalkerOG]

I'm just taking a wild guess but you are probably using tap water & 250PPM of Jacks? Or what dry nute are you using?

If you are at all implying jacks & ro at 250PPM you will without a doubt be killing plants left and right.

Here's the VEG recipe I'm working with at the moment with Jacks for moms & those that are rooted.

Feeding: Stardawg, Chem-T, Harlequin, Omrita RX, & LA Con.

Hydro: 1.0EC, .1 EC Mag, .5EC of Cal-Nitrate.

Flower:

Hydro: .7EC, .2EC Mag, .5EC Cal-Nitrate.

From my experience anything that is heavily based around Chem needs a lot of Calcium and mag. I literally can't feed the Chem-T enough, and the StarDawg you could pour calcium all over the leaves and it would still ask for me.

Harlequin, Omrita, & LA con grow themselves with the mix.

Goal for 2012 is to mix the StarDawg & Chem-T w/ the Harlequin & Omrita. High CBD's especially from the Omrita are very relaxing. But they need the refinement of the Chem line IMO.

 

[organicness]

OG Amnesia on Jack's, as well as some Blue Widow and Pineapple Express, that order. :)

 

[Capulator]

og amnesia on jack's, as well as some blue widow and pineapple express, that order. :)

looking great!

 

[Chronic Monster]

carefree enzymes hydro formula :-) sounds dope thanks for the heads up dank

 

[raincheck]

Sometimes toxicities take the form of deficiencies in a visual sense.

It hard to know when you are only relying on what the plant looks like to tell you what is going on. too much of one thing locks out another.. not enough of one thing causes an abundance of another... getting in tune with the ladies takes time and experimentation.

And can I mention that different strains can be so incredibly different in forms of diet/environment...

I think you could easily run your ebb/flo at 1.0 EC and see great results, speaking from experience. I will post my veg formula here soon.

Also, I think the biggest problem with ebb flow is the salt ring it leaves at high tide. Can you flush your pots from the top with some warm tap water pH'd at 6.0 in between change outs? I am lucky enough to have a hot water hose and plumbing, but you can still use pitchers of warm water, or a separate res and pump.

Nitrogen N Total 150.9
Phosphorus P 45.6
Potassium K 188.1
Magnesium Mg 62.9
Sulfur S 81.9
Calcium Ca 154.0
Iron Fe 2.61559
Boron B 0.43593
Manganese Mn 0.43593
Zinc Zn 0.13078
Molybdenum Mo 0.08719
Sodium Na 0.00000
Copper Cu 0.13078
Chlorine Cl 0.00000
Cobalt Co 0.00000
Silicon Si 0.00000
Selenium Se 0.00000

Active Elements 687

ratio 3.3-1-4.1 using my formula at 1.0 EC will only give me apx. 33 ppm of P which I think is not preferred for my purple indicas during veg.

been going 1.2 EC this past week with filtered water w/ 20ppm.

was planning on flowering with:

Nitrogen N Total 171.9
Phosphorus P 57.1
Potassium K 229.5
Magnesium Mg 50.4
Sulfur S 65.1
Calcium Ca 195.2
Iron Fe 2.43065
Boron B 0.40687
Manganese Mn 0.42272
Zinc Zn 0.14531
Molybdenum Mo 0.07974
Sodium Na 0.00000
Copper Cu 0.11889
Chlorine Cl 0.00000
Cobalt Co 0.00000
Silicon Si 0.00000
Selenium Se 0.00000

Active Elements 773

Also at 1.2 EC with filtered water. You're saying I should try moving down to 1.0 EC at these ratios?



What temperatures of warm flushing water do you recommend? It would be possible although I sog so it's more of a challenging task to flush with 6.0 between change outs. Why do you recommend this?

 

[homebrew420]

Raincheck are you using an ebb and flo table? if so the flush between res changes could be easy enough. You use a bucket make your mix and run it off the bucket just some longer hoses should be needed. For the warm temp flush I would use nothing over 75 F. Saturate with warm water and then run some serious amounts through, and watch those bitches fade away...

Anyone using the Jacks pro Hydro for flower? if so what are your ratios, ie; weight of each nutrient your using. I reduced the Cal-nit by a 1/3 and increased the Jacks by a 1/3. Using approximately 1220 ppm. No EC meter yet. Worked like gang busters. I am still looking for a tried and true formula for flower utilizing what we currently have. I will be messing around with this exact question to determine the answer. will be comparing with Botanicare PBP.
Jack's will lay waste to the PBP. This is what I am thinking

Peace

 

[Capulator]

I recently set up a top drip along with the ebb flow to act as a flushing agent and a back up mechanism in case a pump goes out.

It is working like a charm. No more build ups in the media.

5 on/20 off.

ebb/flo 5 on/ 60 off.

media: lava.

 

[Capulator]

In my experience with ebb & flow, enzymes and drip clean solve the high tide salt ring. But you have to use drip clean from the beginning of your crop. I have seen where someone put out a shitty crop by starting drip clean in middle of flowering.

I use Carefree Enzymes Pond Protector Stage 2. It is 15 mls/100 gals. So my quart will last for over 6000 gallons. I have been using this stuff for a year and a half. I have saved so damn much money vs. hygrozyme.
Hygrozyme's prices are wack.
The Carefree people even have a 'hydroponic formula' with enzymes stated to be tailored to reservoir use. I have not used this yet, and don't know anything about the proposed application rate.

It was Jalisco Kid's posts that first turned me on to this enzyme source. I like how he will make you dig for a while to find the thing he talks about. It separates the committed from the rest.

Are you using the carefree in your MPB?

 

[dankworth]

I have not run mpbs for a while. I did run the pond protector stage 2 enzymes. If I ran rdwc again(which I don't think I would) I would probably not run enzymes. I have seen in too many threads where enzymes fed the pathogens and caused problems.
I think anything to do with a submerged netpot is not for me. The closest I could come I think would be Northone's topdripinto a bucket, then roots dangling into shallow 1-1 1/2" bath with no air.
I built a miniaturized version of Northone's gig a few years ago. I engineered it incorrectly. Despite design flaws, and root rot, I did great numbers per. I have always thought it was a testament to the system design.

 

[raincheck]

Raincheck are you using an ebb and flo table? if so the flush between res changes could be easy enough. You use a bucket make your mix and run it off the bucket just some longer hoses should be needed. For the warm temp flush I would use nothing over 75 F. Saturate with warm water and then run some serious amounts through, and watch those bitches fade away...
Yes I'm using an ebb n flow table with a aqua 1000 pump for each table. I run another 1000 pump side ways in the rez to keep the mix circulating and draw o2. I was running Capulator's bennies but they were a mess in there. I do think they did help but it was pretty bad after a few days even with rez lids. I am in sealed co2 at around 800ppm.

What are you talking about "fade those bitches away" what are you fading away during your rez change flushes? What flush are you running just warm 72F 6.0pH water? So you're suggesting to use a bucket to make a mix for top flush with 6.0pH warm water?
Anyone using the Jacks pro Hydro for flower? if so what are your ratios, ie; weight of each nutrient your using. I reduced the Cal-nit by a 1/3 and increased the Jacks by a 1/3. Using approximately 1220 ppm. No EC meter yet. Worked like gang busters. I am still looking for a tried and true formula for flower utilizing what we currently have. I will be messing around with this exact question to determine the answer. will be comparing with Botanicare PBP.
Jack's will lay waste to the PBP. This is what I am thinking

Peace

1220 ppm is about 1.4-1.5 EC. how big were the plants at the time and in what media?

the flower elemental ppm I posted is jacks and cal nit. I run in pargro at 1.6 EC max so far. Too scared to push it, staying with the less is more mindset.

 

[1rotten]

I have used hundred of pounds of Peters/Jacks

:mmm:mmmBack in the late 80"s befor all this defferent nutrients I use to grow some of the strongest , tastey smoke we call herowana is went for 6400 being there was only 10 every 60 days ,people were paying two weeks before it got here and yes $6.400.00 each ,no breaks . all I used was the Peters 20-20-20 which is now Jack's and for flowering we used the Peters root and bloom 5-50-17,and is also sold under the Jack name Grow Mor has it for cheeper. I have started back also so I just bought some of the Grow mor but I have not used it yet but it cannot be much defferent if any that it use to be and I am telling you from MY own hands it the shit bro, try it you will not have any problems.

Good Morning :)

So I came across a very interesting thread by Sky High this morning talking about why pay more for a cutesy label and after reading some of DesertS posts on nutrient profiles, I got to thinkin.

What are large scale nurseries using in their hydroponic applications?

I really doubt any commercial scale vegetable growers are using the products we cannabis growers use,(Canna, AN, DM, Ionic, House & garden, etc...)

So In my searching I came across this product,

its a 25lb bag of Jacks Hydroponic nutrient for $36.00.

from my understanding needs to be stacked with the calcium nitrate product from jacks, which is $24.00 for a 25lb bag.
here is a little info on the products,

http://www.jacksprofessional.com/products.pdf



They also have other water soluble nutrients with different nutrient profiles as well.

This jacks brand may not be quite what we are looking for as hydroponic growers but I am sure there are other similar alternatives with different nutrient profiles.

*Has anyone used this product, or a similar product with good results?*
:wondering:wondering



Thanks :passingjoint:

 

[Coloradofrost]

Hey guys about to start my first run with jacks and was wondering whats a good veg formula. I know SB and a cpl others have there flower mix up but need to know where to start in veg. I have the Jacks pro 5-12-26, jacks calcium nitrate and epsom salts.(sorry if it is already listed, just did a quick skim though and didn't see it) Just transplanted into hugos want to keep the ppm's low for the first week or so. thank ~peace

 

[Capulator]

If you get a couple more ingredients, this formula is killing it for me in veg. Haven't seen healthier plants in a loooong time.

jacks hydro: 2 grams/gal
Cal nit: 3 grams/gal
MKP (monopotassium phosphate)- .16 grams/gal
Potassium sulfate (K2SO4)- .5 grams/gal
MOST- .1 grams/gal
CaCl2 (98% off ebay)- .07 grams/gal
epsom salt- .7 grams/ gal

2 part formula

1) hydro, epsom, MKP, K2SO4, MOST in one mix. add to 1 gallon of warm water and mix well.
2) cano3 and cacl2 in the other. add to 1 gal of warm water and mix well.

fill res with RO water.

add 1 first. wait until ppms equalize
add 2

done.


I run this mix at 75% strength and it is perfection.