Choosing the righd LED

[self]

wow, who knew LED's were so polarizing? (is that a pun?)
I'm really curious about this technology so I just spent about twenty hours browsing forums, retailers and manufacturers websites. More flame wars over this on the forums than anything else really, even autoflowering!
So at this point my general observations are:
- LED's work, in under a year I expect this to be universally accepted.
- LED's can grow healthier plants more efficiently than HID systems, and I won't be surprised if LED's are proven to grow more potent plants
- Quality and power are everything. If an LED grow light doesn't use high quality, high power LEDs, all bets are off.
- Really, you want CREE or equivalent, at least 3 watt LEDs. 1 watters might do it, but it seems the wrong direction to go in.
- a few brands that fit these criteria and are documented on the forums (with no ledgirl bs) are:
procyon, stealthgrow, advanced LED, lumigrow, and kessil, probably the magnum too.

Now, this is just me trying to organize my head. I seriously just spent two full days researching. This subject is a mess on the web, with way to many scammers, haters, misinformers, and people out to make a quick buck by putting a bunch of cheap chinese LEDs onto a panel and calling it a grow light.
I do not grow with LED's, but I plan on it. If not in the next six months, then in the next year. It is a more elegant solution.
If anyone else who's similarly interested knows of more manufacturers who fit my description, by all means contribute. I did not chase down every LED grow light maker, nor did I send out emails asking for specs on companies that did not post them. I assume that if a company does not give specs for their LED's, they're not worth talking about. The legit LED grow light manufacturers are usually very upfront about their components, as this dictates the high cost of quality lights, and sets them apart from the ripoffs. Hope that helps somebody.
have a good one,
~self

 

[Lost]

wow, who knew LED's were so polarizing? (is that a pun?)
I'm really curious about this technology so I just spent about twenty hours browsing forums, retailers and manufacturers websites. More flame wars over this on the forums than anything else really, even autoflowering!
So at this point my general observations are:
- LED's work, in under a year I expect this to be universally accepted.
- LED's can grow healthier plants more efficiently than HID systems, and I won't be surprised if LED's are proven to grow more potent plants
- Quality and power are everything. If an LED grow light doesn't use high quality, high power LEDs, all bets are off.
- Really, you want CREE or equivalent, at least 3 watt LEDs. 1 watters might do it, but it seems the wrong direction to go in.
- a few brands that fit these criteria and are documented on the forums (with no ledgirl bs) are:
procyon, stealthgrow, advanced LED, lumigrow, and kessil, probably the magnum too.

Now, this is just me trying to organize my head. I seriously just spent two full days researching. This subject is a mess on the web, with way to many scammers, haters, misinformers, and people out to make a quick buck by putting a bunch of cheap chinese LEDs onto a panel and calling it a grow light.
I do not grow with LED's, but I plan on it. If not in the next six months, then in the next year. It is a more elegant solution.
If anyone else who's similarly interested knows of more manufacturers who fit my description, by all means contribute. I did not chase down every LED grow light maker, nor did I send out emails asking for specs on companies that did not post them. I assume that if a company does not give specs for their LED's, they're not worth talking about. The legit LED grow light manufacturers are usually very upfront about their components, as this dictates the high cost of quality lights, and sets them apart from the ripoffs. Hope that helps somebody.
have a good one,
~self

1. Leds will still be considered bunk in a year.

2. I really don't think that is the case. Time and again, MJ has proved that all it cares about is intensity of the light source and spectrum comes in second place. Also, ever notice the more intense the light the more trics? I sure have!

3. None of them use high quality parts. The markup is over 700% on led panels right now. (they cost 100 bucks for the 700 dollar panels)

4. For smaller grows bigger than what led can do now the 3 watters willwork. No trees for led users till they can get the 15 watters.

5. The cost of Leds, you can get a dimmable HPS setup with ventalation, grow more weed for less dosh..

 

[casmel]

wow, who knew LED's were so polarizing? (is that a pun?)
I'm really curious about this technology so I just spent about twenty hours browsing forums, retailers and manufacturers websites. More flame wars over this on the forums than anything else really, even autoflowering!
So at this point my general observations are:
- LED's work, in under a year I expect this to be universally accepted.
- LED's can grow healthier plants more efficiently than HID systems, and I won't be surprised if LED's are proven to grow more potent plants
- Quality and power are everything. If an LED grow light doesn't use high quality, high power LEDs, all bets are off.
- Really, you want CREE or equivalent, at least 3 watt LEDs. 1 watters might do it, but it seems the wrong direction to go in.
- a few brands that fit these criteria and are documented on the forums (with no ledgirl bs) are:
procyon, stealthgrow, advanced LED, lumigrow, and kessil, probably the magnum too.

Now, this is just me trying to organize my head. I seriously just spent two full days researching. This subject is a mess on the web, with way to many scammers, haters, misinformers, and people out to make a quick buck by putting a bunch of cheap chinese LEDs onto a panel and calling it a grow light.
I do not grow with LED's, but I plan on it. If not in the next six months, then in the next year. It is a more elegant solution.
If anyone else who's similarly interested knows of more manufacturers who fit my description, by all means contribute. I did not chase down every LED grow light maker, nor did I send out emails asking for specs on companies that did not post them. I assume that if a company does not give specs for their LED's, they're not worth talking about. The legit LED grow light manufacturers are usually very upfront about their components, as this dictates the high cost of quality lights, and sets them apart from the ripoffs. Hope that helps somebody.
have a good one,
~self

GOOD Post , thats what i needed , i was just wanted to know about led's and now i found this who had made the research , Thank you very much .
Im trying to outsource the LED diodes re seller and the rest is to make it yourself if you know what i mean .

 

[country84]

Well Lost, i took your advice got myself an HPS and will move my plants under it in two days.
It just seems too early to buy the leds, and im sure that giving it an year to develop probably will be the right thing to do, unless you wanna go pioneering around.
thanks for the tip's and all guys, i might open a grow-diary in a few days or so,
good luck to all and cya

 

[below frigid]

Was considering one of these LED's but after reading this I will probably wait a while. Maybe the price will come down.

 

[tsalagi]

One of the deciding factors I don't hear mentioned much is climate. In the deep south, outdoor temps run 90 - 100 from jun-aug and april/sept aren't much better. Your window glass gets hot enough to fry eggs. LED's (if they actually work and they seem to) would solve this major problem (to some people.) Many of you live in places where the main cost energy costs are the lamps, but AC's that strain 24/7 ain't cheap. Without them forgetabodit, you can feel the heat through the adjoining walls. LED's look like a way that a person could grow a room full with nothing more than a cheap window unit.

 

[Lost]

But the LED's DO generate heat, just not as much, but when you are talking about running 5 of the things in a 3 x 3 tent, your going to have the same heat issues as an HPS, maybe a little less, but you are still going to have to spend money to ventalate, and at that point, your might as well have bought a hps, and up the bud size from what you are harvesting. Your not limited to 18 inch plants..

 

[420Gator]

LED's look like a way that a person could grow a room full with nothing more than a cheap window unit.

the price for all those leds would cover several months worth of electric

 

[sm0k4]

1. Leds will still be considered bunk in a year.

2. I really don't think that is the case. Time and again, MJ has proved that all it cares about is intensity of the light source and spectrum comes in second place. Also, ever notice the more intense the light the more trics? I sure have!

3. None of them use high quality parts. The markup is over 700% on led panels right now. (they cost 100 bucks for the 700 dollar panels)

4. For smaller grows bigger than what led can do now the 3 watters willwork. No trees for led users till they can get the 15 watters.

5. The cost of Leds, you can get a dimmable HPS setup with ventalation, grow more weed for less dosh..

1. How come? I grow with them in a PC case and they are performing as well as anything I've used before.

2. What date was this info from and where are your sources? I highly doubt many high powered LEDs were around when this statement was made. umoL or photon intensity is RELATED to wavelength. Metal Halides equate to more trichs because they throw out more blue photons which are a more intense wavelength. Not solely because it is HID. Using LEDs helps you more accurately calculate the PPFD you need for your garden. I won't even go into detail here but go educate yourself on plants and their use of light before thinking LEDs are "bunk". Sounds like you are going with the trend of haters.

3. I build my own arrays and am very impressed with my results thus far. I also can build a higher quality array for what they charge for mediocre arrays.

4. Know your place with what you are using. Obviously you aren't going to get anything much over 2 feet with 1W-3W LEDs.

5. LED users for the most part know their place and grow accordingly. Some people in micro cabs can't or don't want the headache of cooling an HPS, and LEDs work better than CFL, so what would you do? Spend extra money on solving a cooling problem in a small space or spend money to customize a light for your space?


If you know what you are doing and don't expect the impossible, LEDs are very viable and you sir are just a hater. I would recommend a DIY lamp, but thats not for everyone so you are limited to overpriced lights on the web. Stealthgrow and GLH seem to be ok from threads I've seen that use them.

 

[Lost]

1. How come? I grow with them in a PC case and they are performing as well as anything I've used before.

I stopped reading here.

Edit: When back and read all of your post. listen to this: 4. Know your place with what you are using.

3x3 tents and pc grows, ok leds are fine for that. They are a novelty and are probablly a decent solution for a PC case. Your growing an oz or 2 at a time, fine fine, use leds, they have all those cool colors, might as well bling up the PC case, but common a PC case? thats just fucking around. I would never give advice based of a micro grow because your not going for production, your just hoping to score some herb while your parents don't catch you. To sit and give out general grow advice, when comparing what you used in a micro grow is just no compatible for most people that actually want to produce more and a 1/2 oz or oz plant. In other words, don't talk about yield and quality when your using a light in such a limited example.

I mean I see people using 300 watt panels as supplimental lighting with their multi 1000's thining that they are doing something. He'll the plant under a 1000 hps probablly would not even notice the 300 watts of light that does not penetrate the canopy AT ALL.

I guess in summary, i'd say that in my OPINION, they are an alternative for some things, but when you start talking about more than a 3x3 or 4x4 tent, your money and effort is better put elsewhere. :)


To my knowledge I have never ever seen someone grow a tree with leds (especially flower it). I would love to be proven wrong.

 

[LEDnuggetsFTW]

Lost: I know you love your HID and you are probably going to flame hard on me for this being my first post on this forum (I mainly stick to RUI) but your facts are all wrong. The new 3 watt technology running multispectrum LEDs can penetrate the shit out of a plant.

I have the ISIS-FX1 that country84 was talking about (which is made by the parent company that also makes the 357 Magnum), I also have a 400 watt HPS system and guess what I have seen much better results from the LED in a small 2x2 grow tent not to mention completely solved the heat issues I have had in the past.

I will agree with the fact that the Chinese knock-off LED's are terrible and will never be worth it, but when you spend $500 to replace a $250 400 watt HPS system you are actually probably saving money in the long run. You don't have to shell out the extra $100 for a good fan to cool the HPS, you aren't spending $30-50 a month extra on electricity, and you don't have to replace a $90 bulb once every few grows.

The GOOD technology for LED's has been around for a while but the prices have been way to high for enough people to prove that they work (your average MJ grower wont shell out for something they don't know for sure to work) instead people have been buying the cheap Chinese stuff at low prices only to find that its cheap Chinese stuff for a reason and will not work. What this has done is cause people like you to go around saying you know for a fact that LEDs dont work when you probably havent ever seen one in person, much less grown with a high quality one.

If you want an LED light to replace a 1000 watt HID system check out the 357 Magnum, that light uses all 3 watt LED's which have huge penetration on all the right spectrums (11 to be exact, fine tuned to marijuana). Yeah its $700 dollars but you are going to be spending $700 easily with a 1000 watt system over a year, maybe a year and a half.

YOU HAVE NO FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE!

YOU DO NOT KNOW THE FACTS!

GOOD LED TECHNOLOGY IS FINALLY COMING DOWN IN PRICE, ONCE MORE PEOPLE GET THERE HANDS ON A 357 MAGNUM OR AN ISIS PRODUCT YOU WILL BE EATING YOUR WORDS AND I WOULD GUESS YOU YOURSELF PROBABLY PICK UP AN LED PANEL WITHIN A YEAR AND HALF!

 

[medicine21]

LEDNug, you are correct about everything EXCEPT one 357Mag (180W draw) replacing a 1000W. You gotta get real. It will take 700-800LED watts to replace 1000W HPS. You still save 20-30% on light wattage AND cooling wattage AND eliminate your heat signature. You should end up with higher quality product as well.

Part of the disappointment in the growing community with LED lights are unrealistic expectations set by the BSing manufacturers. LEDs work. You just gotta get your expectations in line.

 

[Lost]

Lost: I know you love your HID and you are probably going to flame hard on me for this being my first post on this forum (I mainly stick to RUI) but your facts are all wrong. The new 3 watt technology running multispectrum LEDs can penetrate the shit out of a plant.

I have the ISIS-FX1 that country84 was talking about (which is made by the parent company that also makes the 357 Magnum), I also have a 400 watt HPS system and guess what I have seen much better results from the LED in a small 2x2 grow tent not to mention completely solved the heat issues I have had in the past.

I will agree with the fact that the Chinese knock-off LED's are terrible and will never be worth it, but when you spend $500 to replace a $250 400 watt HPS system you are actually probably saving money in the long run. You don't have to shell out the extra $100 for a good fan to cool the HPS, you aren't spending $30-50 a month extra on electricity, and you don't have to replace a $90 bulb once every few grows.

The GOOD technology for LED's has been around for a while but the prices have been way to high for enough people to prove that they work (your average MJ grower wont shell out for something they don't know for sure to work) instead people have been buying the cheap Chinese stuff at low prices only to find that its cheap Chinese stuff for a reason and will not work. What this has done is cause people like you to go around saying you know for a fact that LEDs dont work when you probably havent ever seen one in person, much less grown with a high quality one.

If you want an LED light to replace a 1000 watt HID system check out the 357 Magnum, that light uses all 3 watt LED's which have huge penetration on all the right spectrums (11 to be exact, fine tuned to marijuana). Yeah its $700 dollars but you are going to be spending $700 easily with a 1000 watt system over a year, maybe a year and a half.

YOU HAVE NO FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE!

YOU DO NOT KNOW THE FACTS!

GOOD LED TECHNOLOGY IS FINALLY COMING DOWN IN PRICE, ONCE MORE PEOPLE GET THERE HANDS ON A 357 MAGNUM OR AN ISIS PRODUCT YOU WILL BE EATING YOUR WORDS AND I WOULD GUESS YOU YOURSELF PROBABLY PICK UP AN LED PANEL WITHIN A YEAR AND HALF!

I just don't believe they can yet compete with HPS. :rain

:harvest:

 

[Cereall]

I just don't believe they can yet compete with HPS. :rain

:harvest:

you are right

they dont compete... they surpass

watt for watt they surpass the potential of HPS all day and MH all night

So many quality companies to choose from

ISIS
Magnum LED
Hydroponics Hut
Grow Led Hydro
Stealth LED

stick with any of those brands and i think you should be headed in the right direction

 

[LEDnuggetsFTW]

you are right

they dont compete... they surpass

watt for watt they surpass the potential of HPS all day and MH all night

So many quality companies to choose from

ISIS
Magnum LED
Hydroponics Hut
Grow Led Hydro
Stealth LED

stick with any of those brands and i think you should be headed in the right direction

Man knows what he is talking about!

 

[Lost]

LOL, enjoy your closet grows :)

 

[Darth Fader]

you are right

they dont compete... they surpass

watt for watt they surpass the potential of HPS all day and MH all night

So many quality companies to choose from

ISIS
Magnum LED
Hydroponics Hut
Grow Led Hydro
Stealth LED

stick with any of those brands and i think you should be headed in the right direction

The problem is that LED marketing has always claimed that a xxx watt LED is "comparable to" a much higher wattage HPS and that the high price of entry will be paid for over time. When the comparison grows didn't pan out, they started doing WATT-for-WATT comparisons. Now your talking 5x the cost.

1000 watts of LEDs HAD DAMN WELL BETTER outperform 1000 watts of HPS for all that coin it takes. What else would you expect for laying out $2k vs $400 ... equivalency?!!?

Also, the idea that LED's don't generate heat is utter BS. I have a GLH 180 for veg, which runs at about 240 watts. It definitely kicks out some heat, and guess what ... you can't cool it directly like a reflector/cool tube.

LEDs have their place. The "which is best" argument is a faulty paradigm.

 

[Cereall]

The problem is that LED marketing has always claimed that a xxx watt LED is "comparable to" a much higher wattage HPS and that the high price of entry will be paid for over time. When the comparison grows didn't pan out, they started doing WATT-for-WATT comparisons. Now your talking 5x the cost.

1000 watts of LEDs HAD DAMN WELL BETTER outperform 1000 watts of HPS for all that coin it takes. What else would you expect for laying out $2k vs $400 ... equivalency?!!?

Also, the idea that LED's don't generate heat is utter BS. I have a GLH 180 for veg, which runs at about 240 watts. It definitely kicks out some heat, and guess what ... you can't cool it directly like a reflector/cool tube.

LEDs have their place. The "which is best" argument is a faulty paradigm.

Whoever has the idea or said no heat is obviously misinformed or never had first hand experience with LEDs...

You must have an early model of their 180 light? Mike now advertises the actual draw of all his lights and not many companies draw more watts than advertised... usually its the other way around

I replaced my 600w grow lights with 340 watts of actual draw of LEDs.. and very happy with results. LESS heat... still kick out some heat
- you are right about the ability to not air cool them...
Yes they are more money up front, but after 3 years im pretty sure running the HPS, at least in my case, wouldve been more money with the cost of electricity from light, fans, and 120$ bulbs twice a year.

The "which is best" is clearly not for everyones situation as HPS might be better for some and fit their budget better... in my case LEDs have been much better for my situation and grow.

 

[Lost]

you are right

they dont compete... they surpass

watt for watt they surpass the potential of HPS all day and MH all night

The "which is best" is clearly not for everyones situation as HPS might be better for some and fit their budget better... in my case LEDs have been much better for my situation and grow.

Wait... Which is it, do they surpass or is it situation dependant.. You can't have it both ways :)

 

[Cereall]

IMO surpass in everyway i have seen... HPS is a great light and has been around for growers for years with obvious results. I feel most people have a bad impression on LEDs based on old technology or cheap lights... But everything i have seen with this new LED tech, Personally Hydroponics Hut, Blackstar, and Growledhydros... has shown that LEDs are improving and starting to prove themselves in actual growing conditions and not just companies boasting how 200w of LED compares directly with 1000w of HPS... which is obvious fictitious.

regardless, the only situation in which i see HPS more beneficial is based on price as i said ... how it will fit their budget better...