dire wolf said:

What's a viroid ? And why are clones more likely to have them ?

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One drop said:

Do both then make up your own mind .....

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tomatoesarecooltoo said:

Viroids are similar to a virus, except they don't have a protein coat, dudding is an example.

The more time a plant is alive, it just has more time to accumulate these issues, whether its a mother being kept alive or a clone from a clone from a clone situation. A mother can carry the dudding viroid without showing symptoms, while producing dudded clones.

Some pathogens can be passed down by seed also, but in my understanding it is less common.

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dire wolf said:

Exactly what I was about to say , and you will learn a lot along the way ....

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tomatoesarecooltoo said:

Viroids are similar to a virus, except they don't have a protein coat, dudding is an example.

The more time a plant is alive, it just has more time to accumulate these issues, whether its a mother being kept alive or a clone from a clone from a clone situation. A mother can carry the dudding viroid without showing symptoms, while producing dudded clones.

Some pathogens can be passed down by seed also, but in my understanding it is less common.

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Anthem said:

Dark Heart is known in Cali for pollen chucking and word it he does not even do that himself.

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Kampbe1l said:

yes, same genetics, but different node growth depending on younger or older motherplant from which the cutting is taken from.

this node spacing does change from that young vegetative growth of symmetrical node growth, to that asymmetrical node growth as the plant goes older. so, you could see if the clone was taken from a young or older plant.

some growers prefer to take cuttings from the lower growth, while others will take cuttings of the growing 'shoots' (tips) of the plant - probably this is preference, but there's some theory behind when to take cuttings or where to take the cuttings from the plant. in the end, each to their own, whatever works....

i took clones off a plant which was flowering - and these clones reacted differently to those clones which I took off the same motherplant earlier. these clones started to bud straight away under 18/6 on/off light cycle, while the clones from the same motherplant but when younger didn't react such. and i even took cuttings from small buds, and ofcourse these clones budded out first, before starting to revegetate.

i was trying to describe these differences between growing seeds vs clones, and clones off the same motherplant when the motherplant is in different growth phase herself...

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dire wolf said:

Yea , I don't know much about what's going on in Cali
But I'm sure you can find some nice clones from someone ....
I like both seed and clone grows

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Frankster said:

I am certainly no expert on this subject. At least from a practical standpoint, but I do know a bit about genetics (RNA/DNA) and a lot about cell growth, biochemistry and metabolism.
Certainly age matters from a plant perspective, some of the mothers out there are 5 even 8--->20+ years old.

My guess would be this, that a well matured mother is going to produce the best clone quality, and I agree sites matter, taking from new growth and internodes, or tips, is probably preferable as your cells are still young and flexible and differentiate into the required cell types (ie. roots, stems, leaf, ect.) also, my guess would be that hormone levels are higher in these types of tissues.

On the down side, I think that a plant that's overly immature isn't suitable for clones either, because DNA traits are generally going to be more fully expressed in a plant as it matures. It's going to have a "prime" age. Once the plant hits "elderly" stage, I don't know if it might get some sort of genetic frailty with reproduction or not, it's certainly an interesting subject, and I think that I would say away from chopping clones from a plant once it get's "REALLY" old, and try and make a backup plan or something, long before this becomes an issue.

Also, general plant health of the mother is going to have huge implications on the viability and vigor of the clones.

Here's a thread on this subject.

Mother Plants grow old.

I just read this posted by Steep hill labs..not sure where they got it It's an old story... the Grower can't understand why the last three batches of clones from his mother plant 'Old Reliable' keep getting lower and lower potency values "....no matter how I change up the lighting...

www.thcfarmer.com

It's an old story... the Grower can't understand why the last three batches of clones from his mother plant 'Old Reliable' keep getting lower and lower potency values "....no matter how I change up the lighting, micro-nutrients, etc... originally my plants tested 15% CBDA & 6% THCA, now they down to 9% CBDA & 4% THCA."

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linde said:

I agree with the last post. Clones most definitely have a peak age. I ran an old DJ Shorts Blueberry clone for years with no issues but as the mother got older it lost vigor and most noticeably flavor. I tried making a new mother off of her and it just lost everything. I seeded it out and harvested it. That was the end of her. Sometimes the mother just gets too big and rootbound or lengthy so it seems like starting a new mother is the right thing to do....but taking a clone of a clone of a clone isn't a good thing to do and results in weaker mother plants...My personal experiences only.

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Frankster said:

Yea, I think the key is taking either excellent clones off the mother when she's in her "prime" and keeping either several of them, (backups) or cloning then seeding (breeding it upon itself) while it's fully mature, but in a "younger side of prime" status are probably the two best options for the home grower. At least that's what I'll be doing if I get around to having a few. There's a lot of stuff being done right now with Encapsulated nodes that's very interesting for the industry.

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How are you preserving your genetics not in production? Consider our stasis protocols for encapsulated nodes (clones) to be stored as synthetic seeds. We can help you maximize your production space today. Lets work... #cannabis #tissueculture #consulting #genetics #clones #optimizedprotocols...

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Anthem said:

As far at the genetic drift you are referring to in the last paragraph I have heard both to be true. Some say their is genetic drift and some say there is not. On this subject, tissue culture is said to bring the genetics back to ground zero or day one. Also taking an old mom out into sunlight is said to help as well.
I have one of my keepers I thought was drifting because I switched from soil to coco, but I have since realized that the interaction between cation exchange and cal mag dozes is probably what caused the bud structure to change. Time will tell.

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Frankster said:

I suspect there's always a chance of getting some kind of "salt block" going on in a plant that's held onto for that long. It's almost like I would think digging it up every now and again, Massage the roots if necessary, get any "lumps" out, (inspect the root ball) and replant, and allow it to heal it's root base, if necessary. Might actually be a good maintenance idea, making sure everything below ground is up to par is critical to the long term health of the mother plant. It's always going to be struggling, if it's always fighting against some sort of issue, and having a big lump of salts in your root-bed should certainly qualify.

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dire wolf said:

Seems like all of the terminology you use is gathered from " dark heart " nursery , who's business is selling clones ....so that's ironic

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