Close To Harvest

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Organikz

Organikz

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I put my cmh in the trash and put some cool aid in the soil. So far so good.

I think anyone running a CMH will find the comment that UV B doesn't increase trichome production laughable. Do you think @DemonTrich would have invested in 4x315w cmh if they didn't make a difference? UV light is a large reason people are willing to spend $500+ for a light fixture.

Bro I'm not the one spreading false info here. If your plant is taking up sugar turn the lights off. Shit that's the whole point of photosynthesis. Wouldn't that save lots of money?

Look ma....no sugar!

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Wisher619

Wisher619

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Mommy ........can I have some more sugar please........

this noob is teasing me with his mite infested "no till" and he says I cant have any more sugar!!!!!

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Organikz

Organikz

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I want to apologize. I let the pretentious asshole come out. We shouldn't be arguing. Everyone has their methods and means of feeding. I don't want to make a pissing contest of it. Obviously both ways work for us and they make us happy. Grow methods are developed through experience.

The mites are a non issue bro. Ive moved to my newly established 150g. It's loaded with h. miles and predatory nematodes. Broad mites are a hitchhiker. They will affect and weaken the most healthy plants. Yes in organic no till we do combat pests. We only have coventional methods. Neem takes a few weeks to break the life cycle completely.

The Skywalker kush was loaded with broad mites. 3 rounds of neem oil and lemon extract and they're gone. My clones are still slightly infested but I will veg for 5 weeks so they'll end up getting 7 rounds. By then mites will be erradicated.

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Were both making beautiful buds so let's stick to what works. To each his own. Adjusting once we dial in is the worst thing we can do. Do what we do and toke to our accomplishments. I will say you have lovely buds sir.

You can't bash no till until you fully understand it. We rely on building a soil food web and over time once the system is cycling as it would in nature most pestilence will be consumed by the system. I will have to run my bed for over a year before I'm reaping the full benefits of no till.

No till is more about steady constant harvests with little to no effort. Here's what I do...IPM foliar sprays once a week and refill my blumat reservoir once a month. No water is wasted nor nutrients.

Our goal is to garden in the most responsible way possible. We even utilize nitrogen from the atmosphere by growing legume cover crops.

Here's the pics we show off. Lol. We don't even take credit for the buds that are grown by nature...not us at all.

Mulch porn hehe
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Organikz

Organikz

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Also no till in containers is the same as agricultural applications. I recommend 15g or larger. A raised bed is the best option. I run a 150g.

The soil, humus layer or mulch layer is never disturbed. We rely on building layers of microbial cultures which would be destroyed if the soil was turned. Root balls are left and another plant is grown on top. It will basically tap into that root system for mychorizal microbes and the decomposing root ball provides nutrients. Nutrient loop. We never buy soil once the bed is set. The worms develop a nice humus layer which will enrich the microbiology of the soil more and more over time.

We simulate the plant growing in it's natural environment. We just set the stage.
 
Smerb

Smerb

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Someone finally gave in...... I have been watching you both argue about who's right. Your both growing so just keep going. Nice nugs to both of ya. Dorks!
 
Organikz

Organikz

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I know lol. I try not to be baited but I do tend to bite. Everyone just looks at growing differently. I don't even care about NPK. Hell I walk in the grow room and I first look at the soil. Then I look at the plants. That's a no till gardener for ya
 
jumpincactus

jumpincactus

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The notion that giving sugars to healthy growing plants will somehow improve their growth rate or help balance nutrient status is a completely unproven conjecture. Don’t be fooled; sugar fed to plants does not increase the soluble sugar inside plant tissues nor will it increase trichome density or resin production. Aside from this fact, feeding external sources of sugar actually affects the osmotic process and inhibits the plants ability to uptake water and bio available nutrients as a result.

It is pseudoscientific nonsense to make such claims. There are no scientific studies that prove this is true and so no other agricultural crops are fed sugars by their growers. One example disproving this idea is shown here:

http://cropwatch.unl.edu/research-sugar-application-crops

This idea was invented by unscrupulous manufacturers of products used by cannabis growers to sell sugar-water or dry table-sugar to uninformed growers. Plants do not work that way, nor do root systems absorb sugars as described on the labels of products called “Carbo Load” and “Sweet”. These sugar-containing liquid products are also full of preservatives like methyl paraben and sodium benzoate which are unlisted ingredients used to extend shelf life.

The notion to feed plants sugars was extrapolated from a few facts about measuring the brix of plant sap or fruit crops such as grapes. The nutritional health and physiological state of crops can be deduced from the sucrose and calcium levels found in plant tissues (ie: “brix”); higher sucrose and calcium means a higher quality crop but you can’t cheat the process. Grape growers don’t feed sugars to their grapes to increase brix levels, so why would any grower try this? Perhaps someone got trichomes confused with sugar crystals and thought they could sell this idea; but trichomes are not made of sugar.

Remember that 45% of the weight of a dried bud of cannabis bud is made up of just from carbon, and all of this carbon was pulled out of the air as CO2. Carbon dioxide gas is where plants obtain their carbon for making sugars and cannabinoids, not from some sugar water given to roots. The opposite is true; plants will exude the excess carbohydrates from photosynthesis out of their roots to attract beneficial microbes, but they don’t uptake take sugars through roots.

Some sugar-based products claim to include “complex carbohydrates” or plant-specific sugars such as arabinose, xylose or rhamnose which is entirely false. These carbohydrates are synthesized by plants for use in cell walls and are very expensive to buy from laboratory suppliers; no one would pay the price for these sugars if they ever were in the products. These precious cell-wall carbohydrates will never enter plant roots, if they ever were used in such a manner, and will not become plant cell-wall components when given to roots.

Any sugar that enters the rhizosphere will be food for bacteria and fungi, and not the plants. Just like sugars used in microbiological petri plate culture, when adding molasses or glucose to the fertigation water one is only feeding the microbes in the soil. One might consider this as beneficial, especially if this boosts the growth of beneficial plant growth promoting rhizobacteria (PGPR), but even boosting microbe growth has negative side effects.

A direct consequence of feeding sugars to the rhizosphere is a drastic drop in soil pH. Bacteria and fungi will grow many times faster when given extra sugars, but then their boosted life-cycles and excessive growth will acidify the soil.

This can be proven easily by adding sugar or molasses to a compost tea; overnight the pH will drop a whole point or more as the microbes go through a surge in growth and exude organic acids as by-products of their life cycle. Sugars might even encourage pathogens to grow instead of beneficial PGPR. A healthy rhizosphere pH has a wide range of 5.2 – 6.1, but sugars will make it plummet to 4.2.

There is science to enlighten us on this topic, and one review article is found here;



Sugars made by plants through photosynthesis and other internal metabolic pathways are investments of energy, and cells use these sugars as signals to affect other metabolic events. A quote from the above article reminds us:

“Sugars in general can act as signalling molecules and/or as global regulators of gene expression, for example acting like hormones and translating nutrient status to regulation of growth and the floral transition”

So imagine if after dumping a huge amount of sugars into the soil and the plant actually could uptake these carbohydrates, plants would have their internal regulatory mechanisms go haywire. The carbon to nitrogen ratio in plant tissues is balanced very specifically, and plant tissues at vegetative or blooming stages of growth have different C:N ratios. Carbohydrate status is not to be messed with, nor can it be altered without disrupting healthy growth.

The scientific paper cited above describes how carbohydrate and hormone metabolic pathways “cross talk” to control plant growth very tightly:

” Sugar-based signalling pathways cross-talk with various hormones to modulate critical aspects of plant growth. In general, plants defective in abscisic acid (ABA) and/or ethylene perception and signalling tend to display altered sugar response phenotypes.”

Furthermore other studies “have revealed extensive overlap between sugar, ABA, and ethylene signals in controlling processes such as seed germination and seedling growth… In response to sugar depletion, genes involved in photosynthesis, carbohydrate remobilization and export, and nitrogen (N) metabolism tend to be up-regulated. Alternatively, sugar abundance induces typical sink organ activities such as carbohydrate import, utilization, and storage, and starch and anthocyanin biosynthesis.”

If they could enter plants through their roots, more sugars would be a negative feedback signal to stop synthesizing sugars. If plants were sensitive to sugars fed to their roots their cellular metabolic pathways would be flung out of control. Luckily roots are not able to uptake a flood of sugars; healthy growth results from trying to maintain metabolic homeostasis and having gradients of sugars moving around the plant in response to the growing environment.

Trichomes are shiny and transparent due to their composition being mostly silicates and carbonates. They look like crystals but they are not sugar crystals, and nothing about cannabis cultivation is enhanced by adding glucose, molasses or “sweet nectar” of any kind to the fertigation regimen.
 
Organikz

Organikz

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Don't do it. he's going to tell you youre wrong because scientists from japan conducted one study. Dehydrated the hell out of a plant and starved it to near death and it sucked up .08 ml of synthesized glucose.

Plants also absorb neem oil and yes it fills their tissue creating a lemoid in their tissue. However it's temporary. The plant can't truly utilize it. Otherwise we wouldn't need soil IPM.

He also doesn't understand that the sugars in the plant carry the plants genetic code. Ive heard you can take clones from different parts of the plant and end up with different phenos. This is only hearsay.
 
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Organikz

Organikz

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I honestly say just let him keep spending $50 bottles of sugar water that he could be investing into lighting...a plants true food source...
 
Wisher619

Wisher619

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While there is yet much research to be done, sugar does play an important role in inducing plant defense responses and recent studies have shown reduced disease levels in rice after application of sugar prior to pathogen infection.

that is an excerpt from one of the articles that you posted @jumpincactus
the other article talks nothing of sugar aplication it only proves that differ sugars play a key role in different plant responses
again a misleading article which only conducted an experiment to see if sugar application increased yield
every one knows that yield increase is do to a balanced nutritional program and light absorption , CO2, and metobolic rate

so there are studies that show that plants uptake glucose
and store them within the plant
the very reason plant esters within a nutrint feed makes your plant smell a specific way

the very reason people can smell a bud and know for a fact it was grown with say AN products
Plant Esters *alcohol* carried by glucose


@Organikz
I appreciate your explanation of indoor no till
I dont agree with using this type of method indoors and I highly disagree with using any plants that have been infected with mites
I commend your effort in growing and hope that you prosper in your endeavors....
my outdoor does amazing and I havnt had a mite infestation in over 5 years outdoors
or any other pests....I gues I must have a great food web and extremely healthy plants
as for UV
there is literally NO evidence that UV induces higher THC production
however there is evidence that UV does regulate *enhance* terpene production
and terpenes modulate thc within the body
so I guess in a round about way.....it helps with potency of thc
 
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Wisher619

Wisher619

6,648
313
I honestly say just let him keep spending $50 bottles of sugar water that he could be investing into lighting...a plants true food source...
by the way....
I make my own
Glucose/citric acid/magnesium sulfate

and I run COB LED
CXB 3590's to be exact
with meanwell drivers
driven @ 2100ma

so my lighting is invested

oh and by the way
shouldnt have to spend more than $250.00 for a CMH fixture
oh and the amount of UV albiet higher than standard HID....is still insignificant when measured
 
Organikz

Organikz

3,562
263
look up a 630 DE Sun systems complete. The bulbs alone run around $200+

It's cool bro. COB is legit as well. Invest in UV diodes! I'm assuming u have them judging by the trichome production. I'm open to new info. Don't be a fan not. When I learned I could cut a lot of bullshit out I was stoked.

Yeast however can be absorbed into a plants tissue just like other bacteria. It then releases enzymes and hormones and is eventually digested. This however creates a large amount of nitrogen and phosphorus at the root zone.
 
Wisher619

Wisher619

6,648
313
look up a 630 DE Sun systems complete. The bulbs alone run around $200+

It's cool bro. COB is legit as well. Invest in UV diodes! I'm assuming u have them judging by the trichome production. I'm open to new info. Don't be a fan not. When I learned I could cut a lot of bullshit out I was stoked.

Yeast however can be absorbed into a plants tissue just like other bacteria. It then releases enzymes and hormones and is eventually digested. This however creates a large amount of nitrogen and phosphorus at the root zone.
no uv diodes in my system
just straight 35ookelvin led cobs

as for my feed

Silica for ph up
Dry 1 part for nutrition
Glucose/citric acid/magnesium sulfate
( I make the working solution myself)
5ml Bio-Cozyme
1ml Mammoth P
very simple....I cut out the bs
in pure coco

my outdoors gets ewc tea once every 2 weeks
my tea consists 8oz by weight EWC *local
20ml bio-cozyme
1tsp Life by hydroponic research (microbes)
20ml Mendocino honey *molasses + Clay*
1/2 cup Kelp Meal *organic
1/2 cup cotton seed meal *organic

as for the 630 de

I would rather get 2 of these
http://growershouse.com/growers-choice-horticultural-lighting-315w-se-cmh-complete-fixture

which as I said I can get for 250.00 a piece
I would rather spread that amount of watts to create for coverage than create 1 intense hotspot
by that is just my opinion
 
Organikz

Organikz

3,562
263
no uv diodes in my system
just straight 35ookelvin led cobs

as for my feed

Silica for ph up
Dry 1 part for nutrition
Glucose/citric acid/magnesium sulfate
( I make the working solution myself)
5ml Bio-Cozyme
1ml Mammoth P
very simple....I cut out the bs
in pure coco

my outdoors gets ewc tea once every 2 weeks
my tea consists 8oz by weight EWC *local
20ml bio-cozyme
1tsp Life by hydroponic research (microbes)
20ml Mendocino honey *molasses + Clay*
1/2 cup Kelp Meal *organic
1/2 cup cotton seed meal *organic

as for the 630 de

I would rather get 2 of these
http://growershouse.com/growers-choice-horticultural-lighting-315w-se-cmh-complete-fixture

which as I said I can get for 250.00 a piece
I would rather spread that amount of watts to create for coverage than create 1 intense hotspot
by that is just my opinion
I agree. Stacking gives a ridiculous PAR at the overlap.
 
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