CLOSE UP PIC OF Root Aphid and Fungus Gnat larvae.....help..

[Intense]

Bti is sweet for dealing with fungus gnats. Agreed that it smells ass, but hey, hard to complain when it works.

Surprised you didn't eradicate them completely with nematodes. Never used them personally, but they sound like they'd be as good, if not better than Bti. They're supposed to persist in the media for longer than Bti if I remember rightly.

 

[nickcapuano]

Great Pics!! i hope someone can help find a way to kill these aphids. I have had this type of RA know for several months and have tried everything on these boards and then some to get rid of them and so far nothing has worked. IMID, met52, caps packs, etc etc. etc.

there is so much confusion because some of the above mentioned methods will work on some types of aphids but not all. i have had the larger colored aphids on some outdoor plants and one treatment of IMID knocked them out for the whole season. i have seen people on this board with the larger aphids knock them out with IMID and other methods. But these small opaque RAs seem to be a different beast. Many of the treatments knocked them back but nothing i found will eradicate them. i must also mention all the time i have had them i have never seen a flier yet and have no idea where i am getting these from. i have sticky traps up and the grow is incredibly small but have never seen a flying aphid in the room.

i hope someone can help make some progress on these. there are so many people out there chasing phantom deficiencies like i did and it may take several months or several crops to determine the actual problem. like the OP mentioned, they are so hard to find - especially when you are fighting them and keeping the numbers down. even right now when i know i have them it would still take me several minutes to even locate one with a 30X loupe.

i also want to mention Caps packs worked the best for me out of all the treatments i have used but even after applying every week religiously, they are still there. the plants stayed greener longer but end up suffering the same problems.

 

[DowNwithDirT]

been using permethrin. It is a kill on contact pyrethrin based insecticide. It is sold as an insect repellent at rei, and walmart, and I'm sure tons of other places. I can't believe its sold as an insect repellent. Either way it is non systemic and from what I can tell from watching it kills gnat larvae and these aphids within about a min after contact.

These little shits are not very quick moving, and are quite small. Really hoping I can get these fuckers under wraps quick.

been using the permethrin at about 1 oz per gallon...the product is sawyer insect repellent... .5% permethrin.
Doesn't seem to have any effect on the plant what so ever. Google says it has a 1 day phi. So it can be used in flower I would think.

When I sprayed some straight where the blumat drips, some gnat larvae tried to abandon ship, and the aphids tried to run but there so damn small there was no where for them to go, everything stopped moving withing minute. straight murder.... looks like a battlefield. So I went ahead and added it to all the rez's and watered everything. Only time will tell.

At my other location I was dripping in pyganic which kinda fucks up the plants a little but they are massive veggers. Flooded them with R/o water, and am going to fill a rez with R/o, permethrin and h202.

plan on using more product and starting a rotation, though I really do want to stay away from systemics, and Imid is my last resort as I know that shit works.

 

[tattoojim]

botanigard only kills fungus gnat's, caps foliar pack is a much better and cheaper source with multiple strains in it not just one.

but if it were me spectrcide all your veg and anything 14 days from finish.fwiw

i use spectracide here and there, and it will kill any thing damn near..but i would b careful about telling people to use it cause triazacide is some bad shit..but if used the right way will save a garden fo sho

 

[RollinEndough]

I'd burn any existing structures down to their foundation before performing a nuclear holocaust on your block. This should work.

 

[dankworth]

been using permethrin. It is a kill on contact pyrethrin based insecticide. It is sold as an insect repellent at rei, and walmart, and I'm sure tons of other places. I can't believe its sold as an insect repellent. Either way it is non systemic and from what I can tell from watching it kills gnat larvae and these aphids within about a min after contact.

These little shits are not very quick moving, and are quite small. Really hoping I can get these fuckers under wraps quick.

been using the permethrin at about 1 oz per gallon...the product is sawyer insect repellent... .5% permethrin.
Doesn't seem to have any effect on the plant what so ever. Google says it has a 1 day phi. So it can be used in flower I would think.

When I sprayed some straight where the blumat drips, some gnat larvae tried to abandon ship, and the aphids tried to run but there so damn small there was no where for them to go, everything stopped moving withing minute. straight murder.... looks like a battlefield. So I went ahead and added it to all the rez's and watered everything. Only time will tell.

At my other location I was dripping in pyganic which kinda fucks up the plants a little but they are massive veggers. Flooded them with R/o water, and am going to fill a rez with R/o, permethrin and h202.

plan on using more product and starting a rotation, though I really do want to stay away from systemics, and Imid is my last resort as I know that shit works.

Did you get any weird fumes that would be funky in a sealed room?
That GoGnats cedar oil made me sick.

 

[Resinable]

this isn't what I typically see regarding root aphids. These fuckers are tiny....not what I dealt with over 2 yrs ago, or not what I remember. I have had fungus gnats for as long as I can remember but finally got a shot of some larvae at it.

Pretty sure those are not root aphids but are soil mites. I have had RAs and I've had those little guys (like the one's in the DWD's photo) that people call "micro RAs" (incorrectly). I took soil samples and bugs to a PHD entomologist who IDed them as soil mites; google it for info; they are extremely abundant and common and almost always harmless. Also I've posted a bit about this on other RA threads on the farm. RA treatments like Imid and pyrthrins etc don't kill them cause they are not RAs . . . they are harmless anyway and if your plants are sick the problem lies elsewhere . . .

 

[Resinable]

No twin tail pipes, wrong no. of legs = not RAs

 

[Thoth]

Agreed, they look more like mites than root aphids. Difficult to tell the number of legs from those photos, but I think I can count eight.

 

[DowNwithDirT]

These only have 6 legs and I'm damn near positive they are aphids. They straight killed a palm tree and rubber plant over 9 months.

Fwiw this shit kills whatever I have as far as I can tell. No real fumes, but I don't hang around when applying chems

 

[cheaplastic]

GoGnats or Caps bennies FTW! it will solve the fungus gnat issue.

RA's are a little more tricky.

 

[Capulator]

Great Pics!! i hope someone can help find a way to kill these aphids. I have had this type of RA know for several months and have tried everything on these boards and then some to get rid of them and so far nothing has worked. IMID, met52, caps packs, etc etc. etc.

there is so much confusion because some of the above mentioned methods will work on some types of aphids but not all. i have had the larger colored aphids on some outdoor plants and one treatment of IMID knocked them out for the whole season. i have seen people on this board with the larger aphids knock them out with IMID and other methods. But these small opaque RAs seem to be a different beast. Many of the treatments knocked them back but nothing i found will eradicate them. i must also mention all the time i have had them i have never seen a flier yet and have no idea where i am getting these from. i have sticky traps up and the grow is incredibly small but have never seen a flying aphid in the room.

i hope someone can help make some progress on these. there are so many people out there chasing phantom deficiencies like i did and it may take several months or several crops to determine the actual problem. like the OP mentioned, they are so hard to find - especially when you are fighting them and keeping the numbers down. even right now when i know i have them it would still take me several minutes to even locate one with a 30X loupe.

i also want to mention Caps packs worked the best for me out of all the treatments i have used but even after applying every week religiously, they are still there. the plants stayed greener longer but end up suffering the same problems.

Are you sure you have RA's? Sounds like something else like res said... Have you taken a sample to an entolmologist?

 

[Capulator]

Can I also plug HOT (130 dgree) water? HOT LIQUID DEATH from your faucet rules. you could hool a hose up to your tap, turn up your water heater a bit, and flush em out good if they are too big to dunk... I know you saw my thread about this. I am sending you foliar to try but in the meantime you can try hot water on just one to see what happens if you dont have much to lose.

Then if that doesnt work... MERIT 75 everything in veg for the nuke and the win!

 

[DowNwithDirT]

permethrin has been applied as well as safer 3 in one fungicide, miticide, insecticide which is just a neem product.

Will flush them tomorrow with hot water fa sho.....then everything should be groovy for a few days till your foliars come...nail em with that, then maybe some azamax and some more permethrin around thursday again.

 

[nangonug]

I have not been able to eliminate them but have gotten them under wraps. I did try 3 root drenches with caps as well as have been using and spraying them. Continue to use c. Woaps packs great for root development soil inoculation etc. Money well spent just did not kill ra's in my situation. Went with the bayer vegtable safe version of the tree and shrub. Hit everyting in veg with 2 oz per gallon and watered in well with this. Then I spray permethrin on any flyers that show up. I mostly try and spray the soil and trays more then the plants. Also have lots of stickey traps out. I went months without ever seeing a flyer. Took suffering through some costly setbacks to look long and hard enough to actually visually confirm there presents. The flyer's will show up eventually if you got root aqhids it just took a long time before i ever saw one. I still can't believe how small they can be. Heres a pic of a few on a piece of hair. Magnified about 200 x very dificult to see and they are camo as well. Blend in well with soil !

The second pic is one on a piece of paper. Its about the size of this (.) dot on the screen. Keep after them till you find what sets them back then keep after them. Be safe!

Peace! !

 

[Resinable]

there is so much confusion because some of the above mentioned methods will work on some types of aphids but not all. i have had the larger colored aphids on some outdoor plants and one treatment of IMID knocked them out for the whole season. i have seen people on this board with the larger aphids knock them out with IMID and other methods. But these small opaque RAs seem to be a different beast. Many of the treatments knocked them back but nothing i found will eradicate them. i must also mention all the time i have had them i have never seen a flier yet and have no idea where i am getting these from. i have sticky traps up and the grow is incredibly small but have never seen a flying aphid in the room.

Bingo! It all makes perfect sense when you realize they are not RAs.

I went thru this same thing with these little bugs driving me crazy and having sick plants. I was at my wits end. That is why I went to an entomologist with a PHD who IDed them as benign soil mites which are very common. She also said RAs are much larger and have the cornicles sticking out their backsides . . . the mites can be a sign of soil health and abundant microbiological life ("living soil") . . . I was using a lot of ACT teas and I had tons of these little guys . . . their population diminished greatly when switched up my run to sterile (chlorine) . . . but anyway no need to kill them they are harmless . . . just trying to save you guys from the grief I went thru and wasted time and money misdiagnosing a problem.

The same symptoms in a sick plant can be caused by a variety of different factors making diagnosing difficult. I eventually realized my plants ill health was caused by something else.

Nangoung: those things look different; not sure about what they are although I think I see some cornicles?

 

[nickcapuano]

"Bingo! It all makes perfect sense when you realize they are not RAs."
"people call "micro RAs" (incorrectly)"

maybe you can help ID what these are then.

here is some background info. i have been growing indoors for about 16 yrs - 4 yrs at this location. i had everything dialed in for many years until i had to stop for a short time. when i restarted i got clones that were infected. I was growing in rockwool and using the same methods in the same location that worked for years in the exact same manner. i started seeing phantom deficiencies especially Mg looking def but the plants looked pretty good in Veg. when put into flowering about 3 -5 weeks in depending on the treatments, the leaves would start looking worse turning chlorotic then necrotic. this would happen on leaves at the top and bottom of the plants. the plants would stretch and are very weak and the buds maybe 1/4 to 1/6 the size during a normal grow.

My environment is sealed, 84 degrees, 55% humidity, 1500ppm co2. Nat gas co2 generator, environmental controller and i have grown great buds in these same rooms in the exact same manner when i first encountered this problem. Before i knew what the problem was, i basically changed everything in the grow before i saw the bugs. I installed new CO2 monitor (i thought it was something in the atmosphere??), changed nutrient brands from PBP to ionic to General Hydroponics to H&G. I tried over 10 different strains and even tried different mediums moving from rockwool to DWC to coco. every grow had the exact same problems.

onto the bugs. i think there is no way i can get a pic of these things - i found a pic and attached of what they look like. i can barely find one with a 30X loupe let alone take a pic. i have tried when i had them by the thousands and still could not get a focused shot. i looked at google pics of soil mites and what i have looks nothing like any soil mite pic i have seen. the bugs i have are the size of bugs in the pic of the OP, they look just like RA pics on google but very very small, they are whitish/clear in color, they have 2 horns coming out of their ass and sometimes have another aphid popping out of their butt. i dont know much about soil mites but lets talk about how these bugs behaved in DWC. In DWC i was doing some different experiments with these bugs to see the reaction- in several buckets i ran a very basic nutrient formula that was just lucas using GH nutes. the roots in the DWC buckets would start out beautifully - nice white roots with lots of small hairs and the roots would have a herring bone appearance with many tiny branches coming off main roots. these bugs i could see hundreds of them eating away at the roots. they will eat every tiny hair and all the small root branches leaving only a main root that looked like overcooked spaghetti. so at the end of the run there would be a large rootball with all tiny hairs and branches eaten off. i ran a few buckets with IMID added and let them soak for weeks and it never killed them(these plants were for testing purposes and thrown away). i had a hard time adding pesticides and other treatment to the buckets as they would bubble/foam up too much so i decided to try coco because i thought it would be easier to battle them. does this sound like soil mites? can soil mites survive in DWC buckets?

the only common factor i saw in all these grows which took place over about a 2yr span is these little bugs which i have never seen before. same story in coco - i can spot them eating away at the roots. i also notice the infected plants will get a fungal gnat explosion and i believe root aphids excrete a nectar that the FG larvae thrive on. since these new little bugs i have seen more fungal gnats than all my years growing. Also seen is the presence of a white waxy substance in the medium.

if these are not root aphids please help me identify what they could be. sorry i can get no pics. if these are harmless soil mites maybe someone can point me in another direction because i think i am loosing my mind! any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[DowNwithDirT]

What other product have you tried in your fight?

I had regular root aphids theses are def not them. These are fairly slow moving and are extrely hard to spot.

Plants look ok but not great and they seem to exacerbate any other problems going on. They really take hold when I transplant into larger containers, and put them under more light. It seems every little stress gives these guys a chance to take a larger hold.

 

[Capulator]

Is it possible to isolate them and see what kills them?

Bingo! It all makes perfect sense when you realize they are not RAs.

I went thru this same thing with these little bugs driving me crazy and having sick plants. I was at my wits end. That is why I went to an entomologist with a PHD who IDed them as benign soil mites which are very common. She also said RAs are much larger and have the cornicles sticking out their backsides . . . the mites can be a sign of soil health and abundant microbiological life ("living soil") . . . I was using a lot of ACT teas and I had tons of these little guys . . . their population diminished greatly when switched up my run to sterile (chlorine) . . . but anyway no need to kill them they are harmless . . . just trying to save you guys from the grief I went thru and wasted time and money misdiagnosing a problem.

The same symptoms in a sick plant can be caused by a variety of different factors making diagnosing difficult. I eventually realized my plants ill health was caused by something else.

Nangoung: those things look different; not sure about what they are although I think I see some cornicles?

What was the final diagnosis? was it the offgassing?

@ Nick, it almost sounds like you need to do a factory reset with some seeds. Clean everything out, bomb the rooms a few times, wash everything with bleach, and wait a month to start back up again so you interrupt their lifestyle.

Fuck rooted clones. That's almost always how i have gotten an issue. I got RA from a clone 3 years ago. I got Spider mites from a clone. I got gnats from a clone. I don't do clones anymore.

 

[vaporedout]

i had those larva last year outdoor, and when i asked what they were on here, i got baby earthworms.....