Clu048 1812 97cri 4000k And Add. Spectrum Qs.

Trying to light a 4x4 area with 8ft ceiling. I have 14 clu 1812 97cri (CLU048-1812C4-403H7K). I wanted to add some low blues and high reds to switch between cycles. I also need help with drivers and some good uvb uvr lights as well. If you want to help me spend my money i would appreciate it.

1. I want to add in sub 430 blues, +700 reds and uvr for veg, flower, and bloom. Has anyone done this and seen a benefit, or would the space be better utilized with more 97cri cobs.

2. I need help selecting the drivers aaaaand...Im not sure what to run them at. The idea is to experiment with c02 and lighting so i want to push the lighting per sq/ft as far as the space\ wattage\ efficiency\ will allow. So the question is does anyone have any experience with these cobs and know a good amperage to run them at.

4. Heatsink Will be decided once placement and configuration have been decided.

Sorry if this you get this a lot but i have researched and have not found much on these particular cobs. Thanks in advance.

Datasheet for COB ( http://ce.citizen.co.jp/lighting_led/dl_data/datasheet/en/COB_5/CLU048-1812C4_P3401_1115.pdf )
 
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I'm sorry If I came across as hopeless. There is just so much information i have had to take in it is hard to get it all down on paper. I have been trying to find info for a couple of months now but. I have been having trouble coming up with actual real world use with these specific chips.

I guess im just stuck on what MA to actually run these bad boys at. I get that once heat and power rise efficiency lowers goes down I just dont know how to find that sweet spot if you will. Im thinking running at 1700ma.

Honestly IF it is something I have to test myself I would love to do it. I just need some real guidance with this information because there is almost too much. I can tell you exactly which driver to run with about 4 different chips but none with these. So i just needed a jumping off point. Because i have hit a wall in my planning and research and i need real help.

Thanks for your help dude and Happy trails.
 
Trying to light a 4x4 area with 8ft ceiling. I have 14 clu 1812 97cri (CLU048-1812C4-403H7K). I wanted to add some low blues and high reds to switch between cycles. I also need help with drivers and some good uvb uvr lights as well. If you want to help me spend my money i would appreciate it.

1. I want to add in sub 430 blues, +700 reds and uvr for veg, flower, and bloom. Has anyone done this and seen a benefit, or would the space be better utilized with more 97cri cobs.

2. I need help selecting the drivers aaaaand...Im not sure what to run them at. The idea is to experiment with c02 and lighting so i want to push the lighting per sq/ft as far as the space\ wattage\ efficiency\ will allow. So the question is does anyone have any experience with these cobs and know a good amperage to run them at.

4. Heatsink Will be decided once placement and configuration have been decided.

Sorry if this you get this a lot but i have researched and have not found much on these particular cobs. Thanks in advance.

Datasheet for COB ( http://ce.citizen.co.jp/lighting_led/dl_data/datasheet/en/COB_5/CLU048-1812C4_P3401_1115.pdf )
So on this data sheet I didnt see any minimum drive but the maximum is 2.7amps or 2700mah. Dont go that high. At the most I would say 2100ma. But the test current they ran it on is a 1amp or 1000ma. I would recommend going close to this number for peak efficiency. Your cobs will use less energy so you'll need more of them to fill the same space, however they will run cooler and you'll have a more spread out light. What current or amps you run is really based on your wallet. Theoretically you want to run at the minimum current for peak performance.

Here this may clear a little up.

Wattage is volts multiplied by current. The current is your amps or ma. There are 2 main types of drivers to my knowledge constant current and constant voltage. Most people choose constant current for COBs and they choose to buy meanwell drivers often as well. There are other brands of both cobs and drivers that are awesome but I'm trying to keep it relatively simple so we will only say meanwell.
 

CrimsonEcho

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Trying to light a 4x4 area with 8ft ceiling. I have 14 clu 1812 97cri (CLU048-1812C4-403H7K). I wanted to add some low blues and high reds to switch between cycles. I also need help with drivers and some good uvb uvr lights as well. If you want to help me spend my money i would appreciate it.

1. I want to add in sub 430 blues, +700 reds and uvr for veg, flower, and bloom. Has anyone done this and seen a benefit, or would the space be better utilized with more 97cri cobs.

2. I need help selecting the drivers aaaaand...Im not sure what to run them at. The idea is to experiment with c02 and lighting so i want to push the lighting per sq/ft as far as the space\ wattage\ efficiency\ will allow. So the question is does anyone have any experience with these cobs and know a good amperage to run them at.

4. Heatsink Will be decided once placement and configuration have been decided.

Sorry if this you get this a lot but i have researched and have not found much on these particular cobs. Thanks in advance.

Datasheet for COB ( http://ce.citizen.co.jp/lighting_led/dl_data/datasheet/en/COB_5/CLU048-1812C4_P3401_1115.pdf )
Ok i’m gonna give you a run down.
80 cri is better 97 for plant growth. Cri doesn’t mean a better spectrum for plants. Usually when cri is high that means green, teal and yellow output is higher and with low kelvin blues go down too.
You can add good blue, uv, ir and far red. If you have the budget why not.
If you have money to buy lots of cobs at once then i would suggest you get double you’re planing to use now and drive them softer.
 
I'm sorry If I came across as hopeless. There is just so much information i have had to take in it is hard to get it all down on paper. I have been trying to find info for a couple of months now but. I have been having trouble coming up with actual real world use with these specific chips.

I guess im just stuck on what MA to actually run these bad boys at. I get that once heat and power rise efficiency lowers goes down I just dont know how to find that sweet spot if you will. Im thinking running at 1700ma.

Honestly IF it is something I have to test myself I would love to do it. I just need some real guidance with this information because there is almost too much. I can tell you exactly which driver to run with about 4 different chips but none with these. So i just needed a jumping off point. Because i have hit a wall in my planning and research and i need real help.

Thanks for your help dude and Happy trails.
In real world tests i dont know what the requirement would be for these cobs to get into the 800+ ppfd numbers. General rule for cobs and LEDs is 600 watts to replace a 1k de. But in honesty theres so many variables that you may want to bump it up a little if you want to run co2.

At 1 amp and 14 of your cobs ran at 47 volts its around 650 watts. Knowing what wattage your looking for could give us much more direction too
 
Ok i’m gonna give you a run down.
80 cri is better 97 for plant growth. Cri doesn’t mean a better spectrum for plants. Usually when cri is high that means green, teal and yellow output is higher and with low kelvin blues go down too.
You can add good blue, uv, ir and far red. If you have the budget why not.
If you have money to buy lots of cobs at once then i would suggest you get double you’re planing to use now and drive them softer.
I've never used them but I avoided them because of the phosphorus layers were too thick in my opinion it loses too much light. Unless the studies I was reading are bs... I really worry about that sometimes lol
 

CrimsonEcho

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I've never used them but I avoided them because of the phosphorus layers were too thick in my opinion it loses too much light. Unless the studies I was reading are bs... I really worry about that sometimes lol
You don’t use cobs or 80cri s or dedicated nm cobs?
 
So on this data sheet I didnt see any minimum drive but the maximum is 2.7amps or 2700mah. Dont go that high. At the most I would say 2100ma. But the test current they ran it on is a 1amp or 1000ma. I would recommend going close to this number for peak efficiency. Your cobs will use less energy so you'll need more of them to fill the same space, however they will run cooler and you'll have a more spread out light. What current or amps you run is really based on your wallet. Theoretically you want to run at the minimum current for peak performance.
This actually was exactly the road block i was hitting So Thank you for stopping by man. I couldn't decide what current to run them at because I have not tested them and needed help interpreting some of the more specific numbers and charts on the data sheet.

I will tell you how I understand it and you can correct me, call me hopeless and leave( I wont blame you) or send me on the same path. Right now Im basically looking at running them around 1080ma or slightly more if the efficiency loss isn't a steep drop.

Im bascially asking if anyone knows when this drop may occur or if this is something i have to test myself In which case Im assuming one dimmable 2700-1000ma driver around say 175 watts and 56v would suffice? Im not sure how i would even test that. Wattage meter on the wall and dimm it and test the numbers?I may need something to test ppfd.

Wattage is volts multiplied by current. The current is your amps or ma. There are 2 main types of drivers to my knowledge constant current and constant voltage. Most people choose constant current for COBs and they choose to buy mean well drivers often as well. There are other brands of both cobs and drivers that are awesome but I'm trying to keep it relatively simple so we will only say mean well.
I appreciate you keeping it simple. I have hit a wall where outside assistance is needed because I dont know the questions to look for. For the final build (not the test above)I am looking for a driver with a dimmable current say 1.7-.08a, 52v and wattage being dependent on the test above Because the necessecary wattage would change depending on the numbers with the chip correct if run in parallell? Is this correct? or maybe series I just dont know.
Ok i’m gonna give you a run down.
80 cri is better 97 for plant growth. Cri doesn’t mean a better spectrum for plants. Usually when cri is high that means green, teal and yellow output is higher and with low kelvin blues go down too.
You can add good blue, uv, ir and far red. If you have the budget why not.
If you have money to buy lots of cobs at once then i would suggest you get double you’re planing to use now and drive them softer.
That's what I'm trying to find out. I am trying to see if more green-yellow can help if there is also a sufficient amount of red and blue. I am aware that photosynthesis uses certain red and blue wavelengths (specific numbers are lost on me at the moment). However people are seeing success with higher cri so i wanted to know if it is necessary if I should just replace all of the lights with samsung strips and be done with it :p It would be easier.

This is a hobby for me so i am trying to be frugal but but i have budgeted for all spectrums and am well under at this point with the 14 cobs.
 
You don’t use cobs or 80cri s or dedicated nm cobs?
I did 4 cob designs before I even knew strips existed lol. I was going through the whole growmau5 series designed a cree setup, then looked at vero29's never did a lot on citizens because of the higher cri I read whatever I could and basically everything was explained as higher cri has less light emission per watt

I have no experience with far reds or any hands on with COBs though... I just designed them and even did drawings and everything lol
 
In real world tests i dont know what the requirement would be for these cobs to get into the 800+ ppfd numbers. General rule for cobs and LEDs is 600 watts to replace a 1k de. But in honesty theres so many variables that you may want to bump it up a little if you want to run co2.

At 1 amp and 14 of your cobs ran at 47 volts its around 650 watts. Knowing what wattage your looking for could give us much more direction too
Thanks man SO basically I have a 12x12x20 room to play in. All hobby personal 3people (lets just say im greedy) I want to stay under 1500 watts so the space is still flexible. I am trying to scale up from a 4x4 to either a 4x8 or 6x6 however with co2 and light I dont know if that is necessary.
 
I did 4 cob designs before I even knew strips existed lol. I was going through the whole growmau5 series designed a cree setup, then looked at vero29's never did a lot on citizens because of the higher cri I read whatever I could and basically everything was explained as higher cri has less light emission per watt

I have no experience with far reds or any hands on with COBs though... I just designed them and even did drawings and everything lol
Dude i basically did the same thing but went with citizen 97cri. The hypothesis is "if i get over that hump of "less Light" by adding more cobs is the light it is getting better?. All hypothesis and conjecture but I want to find out. I do not think this 97 cri spectrum is better just want to see how it goes.

I've never used them but I avoided them because of the phosphorus layers were too thick in my opinion it loses too much light. Unless the studies I was reading are bs... I really worry about that sometimes lol
Yea I worry about the studies a lot as well. Its actually why i am doing this and not just relying on a study. Lol
 
Last edited:

CrimsonEcho

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I did 4 cob designs before I even knew strips existed lol. I was going through the whole growmau5 series designed a cree setup, then looked at vero29's never did a lot on citizens because of the higher cri I read whatever I could and basically everything was explained as higher cri has less light emission per watt

I have no experience with far reds or any hands on with COBs though... I just designed them and even did drawings and everything lol
Ah ok, besides possibly having less output which i think the difference would be negligible the spectrum is better with 80s i can see.
I did a 18 cbx1830 setup (2 6500K 70cri, 6 4000K 80cri, 10 3000K 90cri) i would have gotten 80cri s instead of 90 but it wasn’t on stock.
This works as a strip too and when in flower and 18 cobs lit up there will be a very nice distribution. I don’t like when people put 1 100w cob at the top of each plant. But strips or qbs are nice too.
AD36B3EB-F152-4FFF-B4F4-D0BA3C15D168.jpeg
3A38B1E7-2843-4476-8FB5-09F41F4C7BB1.jpeg
 
Ah ok, besides possibly having less output which i think the difference would be negligible the spectrum is better with 80s i can see.
I did a 18 cbx1830 setup (2 6500K 70cri, 6 4000K 80cri, 10 3000K 90cri) i would have gotten 80cri s but it wasn’t on stock.
This works as a strip too and when in flower and 18 cobs lit up there will be a very nice distribution. I don’t like when people put 1 100w cob at the top of each plant. But strips or qbs are nice too.
View attachment 841943 View attachment 841944
When you say the spectrum is better with 80 how do you mean? PPFD Lumens Better Growth same strains? Honestly If you save me the time and money by going with 80cri then tell me I am wasting my time.

Also What 80? Not all 80s are the same. Could it be possible that with 80s and 97s you could cover more of the color wavelengths and get even better results than just say just 80s against just 97s(these numbers being only what the specific cob provides with said spectrum.

So lets say we get use some 80s that cover 300-400 blue and then 97cri to add 430 to say 640 and then use some reds to add more reds above 700 to extend the peak. Or does it not work like that.

I want to state here I am in no way trying to tell you you are wrong or fight with you. I am trying to learn so when I ask you why you say it is better I am just curious and trying to learn from you. Also thanks for the pics None yet on my end.
 

CrimsonEcho

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This actually was exactly the road block i was hitting So Thank you for stopping by man. I couldn't decide what current to run them at because I have not tested them and needed help interpreting some of the more specific numbers and charts on the data sheet.

I will tell you how I understand it and you can correct me, call me hopeless and leave( I wont blame you) or send me on the same path. Right now Im basically looking at running them around 1080ma or slightly more if the efficiency loss isn't a steep drop.

Im bascially asking if anyone knows when this drop may occur or if this is something i have to test myself In which case Im assuming one dimmable 2700-1000ma driver around say 175 watts and 56v would suffice? Im not sure how i would even test that. Wattage meter on the wall and dimm it and test the numbers?I may need something to test ppfd.


I appreciate you keeping it simple. I have hit a wall where outside assistance is needed because I dont know the questions to look for. For the final build (not the test above)I am looking for a driver with a dimmable current say 1.7-.08a, 52v and wattage being dependent on the test above Because the necessecary wattage would change depending on the numbers with the chip correct if run in parallell? Is this correct? or maybe series I just dont know.

That's what I'm trying to find out. I am trying to see if more green-yellow can help if there is also a sufficient amount of red and blue. I am aware that photosynthesis uses certain red and blue wavelengths (specific numbers are lost on me at the moment). However people are seeing success with higher cri so i wanted to know if it is necessary if I should just replace all of the lights with samsung strips and be done with it :p It would be easier.

This is a hobby for me so i am trying to be frugal but but i have budgeted for all spectrums and am well under at this point with the 14 cobs.
No, green and yellow is not efficent for growing. In that case you will do better with a light that emits higher blue (430-450) and red (640-660) tho i suggest 620-660. You get higher ratios of these specific nms with lower cri. The higher you go less efficient you become. Because you’re using more watts for producing green and less watts for producing blue and red.
 

CrimsonEcho

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If you look at the spectral output of cbx1830s (or any led) from the data sheet you will see that 80 cri is higher in red and blue and lower in green and yellow. The blue and red are peak points for photosynthesis as you may know. I don’t know what you’re talking about but there is no apparent reason to go with 97cri instead of 80. 80 puts out better reds in any led. 97cri has less red and blue than 80cri.
Cri is for your human eye which perceives greenish colours brightest.
Also no 300s with leds.
700+ is not actually a peak, those far reds are supplemented mostly for morphological reasons (to shorten the flowering)
 
If you look at the spectral output of cbx1830s (or any led) from the data sheet you will see that 80 cri is higher in red and blue and lower in green and yellow. The blue and red are peak points for photosynthesis as you may know. I don’t know what you’re talking about but there is no apparent reason to go with 97cri instead of 80. 80 puts out better reds in any led. 97cri has less red and blue than 80cri.
Also no 300s with leds.
Cri is for your human eye which perceives greenish colours brightest.
700 is not actually a peak, those far reds are supplemented mostly for morphological reasons (to shorten the flowering)
I meant the peak in the light and not in the plants uptake of the Red or blue light Sorry if that was confusing. But what The logic I am going on is this...If an 80cri cob that produces a small amount of green through yellow is better than an led that Produces only blue and red Such as the Blurple lights. Then if you used 97cri lights then added blue and red to supplement what you lose from switching to 97 from 80 would it not provide even more benefit.

Or am i going about this the wrong way. I have just seen growers claiming they saw gains from switching from 80 to 97. EDIT: I use the CRI numbers as a guide to know I am referencing the different temps they provide. I am not fixated on the 97cri on the cri number per se but the additional green and yellow they provide.
 

CrimsonEcho

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I meant the peak in the light and not in the plants uptake of the Red or blue light Sorry if that was confusing. But what The logic I am going on is this...If an 80cri cob that produces a small amount of green through yellow is better than an led that Produces only blue and red Such as the Blurple lights. Then if you used 97cri lights then added blue and red to supplement what you lose from switching to 97 from 80 would it not provide even more benefit.

Or am i going about this the wrong way. I have just seen growers claiming they saw gains from switching from 80 to 97.
Well its their claim. Its ok to make claims but who told blurples are not doing a good job.
Problem with blurples is, lots of companies are manufacturing shitty fixtures with bad diodes and not very efficient drivers. I had a nice efficient blurple and tight nugs covered in trichomes is what i would always get. Pulled 5 oz. from two plant easily could accomodate 4.
The nms in between the peak points provide morphological benefits but not efficient in photosythesis. Providing a bit of green and yellow and ir and uv is good but you only need the two actually. As you will see in the link producing green light is less efficient compared to producing blue with the same basic effects.

https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/green_light_is_it_important_for_plant_growth
 
This actually was exactly the road block i was hitting So Thank you for stopping by man. I couldn't decide what current to run them at because I have not tested them and needed help interpreting some of the more specific numbers and charts on the data sheet.

I will tell you how I understand it and you can correct me, call me hopeless and leave( I wont blame you) or send me on the same path. Right now Im basically looking at running them around 1080ma or slightly more if the efficiency loss isn't a steep drop.

Im bascially asking if anyone knows when this drop may occur or if this is something i have to test myself In which case Im assuming one dimmable 2700-1000ma driver around say 175 watts and 56v would suffice? Im not sure how i would even test that. Wattage meter on the wall and dimm it and test the numbers?I may need something to test ppfd.


I appreciate you keeping it simple. I have hit a wall where outside assistance is needed because I dont know the questions to look for. For the final build (not the test above)I am looking for a driver with a dimmable current say 1.7-.08a, 52v and wattage being dependent on the test above Because the necessecary wattage would change depending on the numbers with the chip correct if run in parallell? Is this correct? or maybe series I just dont know.

That's what I'm trying to find out. I am trying to see if more green-yellow can help if there is also a sufficient amount of red and blue. I am aware that photosynthesis uses certain red and blue wavelengths (specific numbers are lost on me at the moment). However people are seeing success with higher cri so i wanted to know if it is necessary if I should just replace all of the lights with samsung strips and be done with it :p It would be easier.

This is a hobby for me so i am trying to be frugal but but i have budgeted for all spectrums and am well under at this point with the 14 cobs.
There are far more knowledgable people than me but I think I can put you on a reasonable path. Then I might also send you through a whirlwind at the end lol.

They make PPFD meters and monitor performance of your lights but there are many addiditonal factors. If you're going for pure quality of overall bud I honestly couldn't tell you, but as far as lighting efficiency goes and saving money overall i can help more with that. This is primarily because if you read 20 papers you'll have 20 varying results and i honestly cannot tell if any of them are true lol.

But as far as efficiency, you can aim for grams per watt based on veg and strain for comparisons, as well as monitoring heat and overall ppfd.

People tend to start adding co2 around 8-900 ppfd so you should be shooting above that if that's your goal.

The softer you run LEDs the better they perform and the cooler they run. You will not get your upfront money back but I do have a feeling over the course of 1 or 2 years it will pay for itself.

As far as hitting that sweet spot, I do believe there are comparisons for cree and vero29's for sweet spots but it's been awhile. I'll give it a couple minute search and see if I can find them, it might be a reasonable comparison even though they're completely different.

But like you said you're kind of the tester. 80 cri is always believed to be the "superior" color for plants, but I've read conflicting data on this as well. I wouldn't get rid of what you have at all right now, I dont think theres enough absolute evidence.

The more people trying different things the more information we have! I know this isn't the best response but I've been busy, I'll try to put together a more coherent response later :)
 

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