Coco Friends - I need advice

[jaybird1620]

Just trying a run with botanicare coco, I have perlite and worm castings available to mix in. If I should use the amendments, in what ratios, and will the worm castings effect what I should adjust my ph to. I know generally it is 5.8-6.0....will this remain the same with the amendments? Or should I just us the coco as is? I am also considering putting a layer of hydroton on top to combat fungus knats?

All opinions and advice appreciated.

 

[JPLord01]

Just run coco it is hydro not soil feed with a coco food H&G or Canna. Read alot of the post on coco to get started. You can read my post and get some good info good luck .
I will help best I can. Your ph need to be 5.8 to 6.1 this is the best PH for coco. The plants will feed the most at a PH of 6.0. CALMAG is a must 5 to 10mils per gl I run 10mils all the way up to 4 weeks into flower then 5mils for the rest of the way.When you water you need to have 10 to 15 % run off you do not need to feed over 700PPMs. I water like this feed at 5 mils A&B then my next water 2.5mils A&B then water. Over and over and over. If you need more on how I water just ask. Coco 60/40 perlite.

 

[jaybird1620]

Just run coco it is hydro not soil feed with a coco food H&G or Canna. Read alot of the post on coco to get started. You can read my post and get some good info good luck .
I will help best I can. Your ph need to be 5.8 to 6.1 this is the best PH for coco. The plants will feed the most at a PH of 6.0. CALMAG is a must 5 to 10mils per gl I run 10mils all the way up to 4 weeks into flower then 5mils for the rest of the way.When you water you need to have 10 to 15 % run off you do not need to feed over 700PPMs. I water like this feed at 5 mils A&B then my next water 2.5mils A&B then water. Over and over and over. If you need more on how I water just ask. Coco 60/40 perlite.

Thanks for the advice. I am using AN 2 part for flower, with big bud, overdrive, piranha, tarantula, Blue Mountain Organics Super Tonic, and I have some cal/mag lying around too (thanks for the advice), also bud candy, sensizyme and final phase. During grow I have some FF Grow Big (hydroponic) and some Old Age Liquid Grow that seems to do well in the coco. I would love to try some Canna products, heard nothing but good things, but not sold anywhere around here. Guess I'll have to go online shopping.

 

[jaybird1620]

Wow, that's quite a clean setup you have there. Very nice. I read all through your thread and I have learned so much. Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge and experience with the rest of us. I ran a couple in coco last run, I had continuous problems with deficiencies and the cal/mag makes sense. Even with those deficiencies I still ended up with an impressive enough results to try to learn more. I have two now that are about 3 weeks into flower and looking good. I had picked up some of those smart pots a few weeks ago too, so I am anxious to see how they do. Thanks again!

 

[grh]

Just run coco it is hydro not soil feed with a coco food H&G or Canna. Read alot of the post on coco to get started. You can read my post and get some good info good luck .
I will help best I can. Your ph need to be 5.8 to 6.1 this is the best PH for coco. The plants will feed the most at a PH of 6.0. CALMAG is a must 5 to 10mils per gl I run 10mils all the way up to 4 weeks into flower then 5mils for the rest of the way.When you water you need to have 10 to 15 % run off you do not need to feed over 700PPMs. I water like this feed at 5 mils A&B then my next water 2.5mils A&B then water. Over and over and over. If you need more on how I water just ask. Coco 60/40 perlite.

420:
I would definately like to hear how you water if you care to share...

 

[Seamaiden]

Just trying a run with botanicare coco, I have perlite and worm castings available to mix in. If I should use the amendments, in what ratios, and will the worm castings effect what I should adjust my ph to. I know generally it is 5.8-6.0....will this remain the same with the amendments? Or should I just us the coco as is? I am also considering putting a layer of hydroton on top to combat fungus knats?

All opinions and advice appreciated.

Missed this.

Yes! Mix in the worm castings, your girls will love it. Keep it on the lighter side because with the Botanicare you can end up with too fine a medium, which will then compact too much IME. I'd go with about 25% castings, and save the rest to make teas to apply through the grow. The castings won't affect pH of the media negatively, nor will they affect the pH range at which you should be applying nutrients.

Your range is good, but you can actually let it be a little broader, 5.8-6.2 is alright.

As for dealing with fungus gnats... turned out I had root aphids and I don't think hydroton is going to do a damn thing to control them. Sand on soil helps, but I fear it would wash through the coco too easily, especially if you add a lot of perlite.

Speaking of which, I have eschewed perlite COMPLETELY, and happily so, in favor of rice hulls. Perlite is a mined product, therefore is not renewable. Rice hulls are ag waste and 100% renewable, plus they'll provide a little bit of silica to the mix.

Thanks for the advice. I am using AN 2 part for flower, with big bud, overdrive, piranha, tarantula, Blue Mountain Organics Super Tonic, and I have some cal/mag lying around too (thanks for the advice), also bud candy, sensizyme and final phase. During grow I have some FF Grow Big (hydroponic) and some Old Age Liquid Grow that seems to do well in the coco. I would love to try some Canna products, heard nothing but good things, but not sold anywhere around here. Guess I'll have to go online shopping.

That's really complicating things and is one HELL of a feeding list, and I find myself wondering why you're bothering with castings if you're going to use all that other stuff (except the BMO Super Plant Tonic, that's just good stuff). Really and truly, keep it simple until you get the feel for working with coco.

The man has you right on the Ca/Mg supplementation. I get the impression you've never worked with coco, here's a great primer on understanding how you need to work it:

I generally feed to the point of closer to 20% run-off and advise that for folks who are new, ESPECIALLY if they're going to be using chemical salt-based nutrients instead of going all-organic. If you don't follow the run-off paradigm then you can plan on salts building up in the medium, driving pH down and causing a cascade of problems.

 

[jaybird1620]

420:
I would definitely like to hear how you water if you care to share...

I actually hand water with tap water that has been in a sterile garbage can (bought specifically for holding this water and nothing else). My tap water runs very high PH wise, around 8ish. I aerate the hell out of it with a large compressor set up to run 8 DWC buckets (its only running two, and the rest go to the reservoir so it's very bubbly). Hopefully that is enough to treat my water...I drank it and it tasted like distilled water, no taste (not that that proves anything).

I water/feed, probably twice a week, they seem to be showing some signs of burn so I will back off a bit on next feed. PH runoff is about 5.8, I water them until the runoff fills up and sometimes runs over dishes they are sitting in and I allow it to just stay there and allow the coco to soak it back up over time (I hope that's right). Perhaps I will try more frequent feedings with much less nutes, nothing over 700ppm. My pots are square pots, probably about a gallon and half each. I have bigger ones, but I thought that with coco I would not need such a large container as with soil. I have also ran out of my grow nute, and used age old organics grow, kelp, a little cal/mg and they seem to show no deficiencies. It did not say coco safe, but I they seem to like it. Could I use that with flower too and make teas like with soil?

 

[jaybird1620]

Missed this.

Yes! Mix in the worm castings, your girls will love it. Keep it on the lighter side because with the Botanicare you can end up with too fine a medium, which will then compact too much IME. I'd go with about 25% castings, and save the rest to make teas to apply through the grow. The castings won't affect pH of the media negatively, nor will they affect the pH range at which you should be applying nutrients.

Your range is good, but you can actually let it be a little broader, 5.8-6.2 is alright.

As for dealing with fungus gnats... turned out I had root aphids and I don't think hydroton is going to do a damn thing to control them. Sand on soil helps, but I fear it would wash through the coco too easily, especially if you add a lot of perlite.

Speaking of which, I have eschewed perlite COMPLETELY, and happily so, in favor of rice hulls. Perlite is a mined product, therefore is not renewable. Rice hulls are ag waste and 100% renewable, plus they'll provide a little bit of silica to the mix.

That's really complicating things and is one HELL of a feeding list, and I find myself wondering why you're bothering with castings if you're going to use all that other stuff (except the BMO Super Plant Tonic, that's just good stuff). Really and truly, keep it simple until you get the feel for working with coco.

The man has you right on the Ca/Mg supplementation. I get the impression you've never worked with coco, here's a great primer on understanding how you need to work it:

I generally feed to the point of closer to 20% run-off and advise that for folks who are new, ESPECIALLY if they're going to be using chemical salt-based nutrients instead of going all-organic. If you don't follow the run-off paradigm then you can plan on salts building up in the medium, driving pH down and causing a cascade of problems.

I actually would rather use organic, I am a big fan of BMO and Age Old and making teas. That's how I have always done it in soil, I suppose I was caught up in all the AN hype. Would I do anything different if I were to just use the Age Old Grow and Bloom, Kelp, and some teas? I would love to do away with all of those stupid bottles.

 

[JPLord01]

Jaybird just run a coco A&B feed with your teas and keep it under 800ppm. AN is good but you dont need all they crap to grow good weed. KISS is the name of the game. In flower run Big Bud if it is a 8 weeker run big bud for 5 weeks the drop the big bud and go to OverDrive for 2 weeks then run feed at 300 for 3 days then the last 4 days run water with a lot of run off to give them a good flush.

 

[champion]

coco generally has less nutes in however you have a lot of food there bro......

 

[jaybird1620]

Jaybird just run a coco A&B feed with your teas and keep it under 800ppm. AN is good but you dont need all they crap to grow good weed. KISS is the name of the game. In flower run Big Bud if it is a 8 weeker run big bud for 5 weeks the drop the big bud and go to OverDrive for 2 weeks then run feed at 300 for 3 days then the last 4 days run water with a lot of run off to give them a good flush.

That sounds like some great advice. They are showing def signs of burn. Thanks so much for everyone's input. 5 mils A&B then 2.5, then just plain water 3rd, keeping it under 800ppm? Sounds simple enough! I'll keep you updated and try to come up with some pics.

 

[Seamaiden]

Watch them. The lovely thing about coco is things happen fast, both good and bad. If they're asking for more at 800ppm then you can and should feed more heavily. If it's too much you'll need to adjust accordingly. I honestly don't like using the ppm scale, how about EC? It's so much more accurate and no conversions to worry about. 800ppm at what conversion? I know it makes a difference, but don't ask me to do the math.

I also agree with dropping as much of the extra stuff as you can, HOWEVER, I've been using Big Bud very differently. I feed it every 10 days as the main feed beginning when they've finished stretching, so about 2-3 weeks after flip. My last dose will be no less than 3 weeks before planned harvest. Helps make the nugs harder and I see them fatten up in the days after application.

I actually would rather use organic, I am a big fan of BMO and Age Old and making teas. That's how I have always done it in soil, I suppose I was caught up in all the AN hype. Would I do anything different if I were to just use the Age Old Grow and Bloom, Kelp, and some teas? I would love to do away with all of those stupid bottles.

Assuming the AO G & B formulas cover everything appropriately then you should be able to do this. Did you read the Integral Hydro link? It's important to also understand and know that coco already has a very high amount of potassium/K available, and so feeds may need to be adjusted accordingly, as well as knowing and understanding that coco locks onto calcium and magnesium in a way that other media don't, and so that absolutely must be supplemented if your plants are showing deficiencies or you're using RO or RO/DI water that requires those minerals be replaced.

Worm casting teas are great, and like I think I said previously, added to the mix are also good. Dolomitic lime is something I would not use here. Why not? Because, its action is much slower, although I've already proven, to myself at least, that in clean water prilled dolomitic lime can and will dissolve readily and will make available its calcium and magnesium. The problem with that in coco is that it will also drive pH up far out of the acceptable range, and so you'll see deficiencies in your plants. A liquid formula is really what's called for here, assuming the AO products don't have sufficient amounts (and you're going to be needing in the range of 3%-6% Ca, I find that all plants perform better when I use the BioLink 6% Ca + MgSO4 as the source for magnesium, but that's separating out each mineral, not so easy when beginning) already.

Molasses will add a little bit of Ca/Mg, but not enough to make up for a good Ca/Mg supplement. I would go with whichever organic Ca/Mg supplement you feel will work well with your regimen.

 

[jaybird1620]

Watch them. The lovely thing about coco is things happen fast, both good and bad. If they're asking for more at 800ppm then you can and should feed more heavily. If it's too much you'll need to adjust accordingly. I honestly don't like using the ppm scale, how about EC? It's so much more accurate and no conversions to worry about. 800ppm at what conversion? I know it makes a difference, but don't ask me to do the math.

I also agree with dropping as much of the extra stuff as you can, HOWEVER, I've been using Big Bud very differently. I feed it every 10 days as the main feed beginning when they've finished stretching, so about 2-3 weeks after flip. My last dose will be no less than 3 weeks before planned harvest. Helps make the nugs harder and I see them fatten up in the days after application.

Assuming the AO G & B formulas cover everything appropriately then you should be able to do this. Did you read the Integral Hydro link? It's important to also understand and know that coco already has a very high amount of potassium/K available, and so feeds may need to be adjusted accordingly, as well as knowing and understanding that coco locks onto calcium and magnesium in a way that other media don't, and so that absolutely must be supplemented if your plants are showing deficiencies or you're using RO or RO/DI water that requires those minerals be replaced.

Worm casting teas are great, and like I think I said previously, added to the mix are also good. Dolomitic lime is something I would not use here. Why not? Because, its action is much slower, although I've already proven, to myself at least, that in clean water prilled dolomitic lime can and will dissolve readily and will make available its calcium and magnesium. The problem with that in coco is that it will also drive pH up far out of the acceptable range, and so you'll see deficiencies in your plants. A liquid formula is really what's called for here, assuming the AO products don't have sufficient amounts (and you're going to be needing in the range of 3%-6% Ca, I find that all plants perform better when I use the BioLink 6% Ca + MgSO4 as the source for magnesium, but that's separating out each mineral, not so easy when beginning) already.

Molasses will add a little bit of Ca/Mg, but not enough to make up for a good Ca/Mg supplement. I would go with whichever organic Ca/Mg supplement you feel will work well with your regimen.

I have been using botinacare's cal/mag but I also have Magical from Technaflora...I've avoided using that because it seems to have other things in it and I don't want to duplicate and over do it. The Age Old Grow and Bloom are used with Age Old Kelp through both veg and flower at the same amount. AO Bloom is 5-10-5 and the Grow is 12-6-6 and the Kelp (0.30-0.25-0.15) I love this stuff in soil with some guano tea, but that would def be Potassium overkill in the coco from what you said. I agree the dolomitic lime would raise the ph to unacceptable levels, hopefully the cal/mag is enough and I can get the correct nutrient dosage down.

Another question...If you water coco daily, every other day, etc, when does it get a chance to dry to let the roots get oxygen? Is that what all of the perlite is for? Sorry I have tons of questions and over think things. Silly Virgo, my wife says lol.

 

[Seamaiden]

One of my sisters is a Virgo, she can drive me up the fucking WALL. Then again, she has diagnoses of bipolar disorder and OCD, so....!

I use rice hulls instead of perlite--much more sustainable and "green" being an ag waste product. They also add some silica (potassium silicate is the form, IIRC).

How often I water is really and truly dependent upon what stage of growth the girls are at, which relates in a very large way to how much root mass exists, which is what seems to really determine how much they need to be fed and watered. So, new transplants get watered/fed as needed, which can be as infrequently as once a week. Girls that are halfway through flowering may need it every day.

Of course, that is also dependent upon what STYLE I use, because I combine DTW and flooding my tables. If I know I'm going to be away for a while or need a break, I'll flood my tables so that they'll be drinking for two days or so. I also do that if I've let them really dry out.

The goal when they're new is to get those roots growing and moving, so less frequent waterings/feedings, but to a point of more run-off, and perhaps even splitting it up so that if the media is dried out the water/feed doesn't just run off. I'm not sure I'm explaining myself well, so maybe if I just describe what I do when I'm hand-watering that will make it clear.

I use a 1/6hp sump pump, a coiled hose and a watering wand. As long as the lines are clear I can time the watering of each pot, so what I'll do is put the wand in the pot and then I start counting chimpanzees. ONE! chimpanzee TWO! chimpanzee THREE! chimpanzee FOUR! chimpanzee
Each chimpanzee is equal to one second, and in that way, singing about chimpanzees I know that each girl is getting at least a roughly equivalent amount of food/water. Of course, you don't have to count chimpanzees, you can count kangaroos or anything else that has enough syllables. Or, if you're really good, you can just "time" it, but I wouldn't be able to tell you how without counting chimpanzees. Monkeys won't work, by the way, not enough syllables.

Also, you seem worried that the coco can or will become waterlogged. In my still rather limited experience this just ISN'T possible unless you leave the pot sitting IN water. Otherwise, it drains through and retains enough moisture for the plants to get to, without drowning them and creating a low O2 environment.

 

[jaybird1620]

One of my sisters is a Virgo, she can drive me up the fucking WALL. Then again, she has diagnoses of bipolar disorder and OCD, so....!

I use rice hulls instead of perlite--much more sustainable and "green" being an ag waste product. They also add some silica (potassium silicate is the form, IIRC).

How often I water is really and truly dependent upon what stage of growth the girls are at, which relates in a very large way to how much root mass exists, which is what seems to really determine how much they need to be fed and watered. So, new transplants get watered/fed as needed, which can be as infrequently as once a week. Girls that are halfway through flowering may need it every day.

Of course, that is also dependent upon what STYLE I use, because I combine DTW and flooding my tables. If I know I'm going to be away for a while or need a break, I'll flood my tables so that they'll be drinking for two days or so. I also do that if I've let them really dry out.

The goal when they're new is to get those roots growing and moving, so less frequent waterings/feedings, but to a point of more run-off, and perhaps even splitting it up so that if the media is dried out the water/feed doesn't just run off. I'm not sure I'm explaining myself well, so maybe if I just describe what I do when I'm hand-watering that will make it clear.

I use a 1/6hp sump pump, a coiled hose and a watering wand. As long as the lines are clear I can time the watering of each pot, so what I'll do is put the wand in the pot and then I start counting chimpanzees. ONE! chimpanzee TWO! chimpanzee THREE! chimpanzee FOUR! chimpanzee
Each chimpanzee is equal to one second, and in that way, singing about chimpanzees I know that each girl is getting at least a roughly equivalent amount of food/water. Of course, you don't have to count chimpanzees, you can count kangaroos or anything else that has enough syllables. Or, if you're really good, you can just "time" it, but I wouldn't be able to tell you how without counting chimpanzees. Monkeys won't work, by the way, not enough syllables.

Also, you seem worried that the coco can or will become waterlogged. In my still rather limited experience this just ISN'T possible unless you leave the pot sitting IN water. Otherwise, it drains through and retains enough moisture for the plants to get to, without drowning them and creating a low O2 environment.

Great info, and explained very well, thank you very much. I like the idea of the sump pump and hose as well!! I'll have to check the HP of mine. My flowering ones are looking better (Deathstar) after just plain water. Even though they were burnt a bit they are still so frosty with a good 4-5 weeks to go. My veg group are doing great, topped the Hindu Skunk Blueberry (she loves it) and already shooting up new tops. These strains have been pretty forgiving in the past and I have faith they will get dialed in. Thanks again for the help!

 

[jaybird1620]

Hey 3cZ, got your pm but can't reply because I'm a new member, but I would love the info. Thanks!