Coco Newbie: Struggling with building roots

[bunkerking]

I also got some expanded clay pebbles today. The nursery pots always traps some water at the bottom. Hoping to get abit more air pruning that way to the lower roots.

 

[bunkerking]

Yep - repotted two of my smaller plants. Roots were ok, healthyish. Just not tons of them.
The bottom of the pot was super wet.

hydroton should eliminate that issue + reducing the water as advised.

 

[Ph 007]

I also got some expanded clay pebbles today. The nursery pots always traps some water at the bottom. Hoping to get abit more air pruning that way to the lower roots.

How are them other looking

 

[bunkerking]

How are them other looking

Big plants - nothing new.
Little plants - looking ok, should improve quickly.

 

[Ph 007]

Try one with now calmag see if that helps?

 

[bunkerking]

Try one with now calmag see if that helps?

Added some Mag Amp - they already get TONS of cal from NFTG.

 

[MrBlobby85]

Medium: 50% coco 50% perlite
Current PH: 6.4 (running a cal based line)
Nutes: NFTG
Lights: t5 96W
Temps: mid 70s
RH: low-mid 50s.


I am watering everyday and have been struggling to grow big healthy white roots.
They have been growing super slowly.

Is the trick really to just to stop giving them water for a few days. Let the roots grow out?
And just rebuild the microbes in the soil?

I keep seeing people having massive success with coco.
Most of the time its wet, with white fuzzy roots. (their transplant imgs/root porn)

Any suggestions?

It doesn't matter what you're growing in.
Roots will not search for water if there is readily available water. No matter the medium if you want to "build" bigger root structures you'll need to let them search for the water. Meaning water every 2 or 3 days when the plant is small.

Just cause you can water every day, and not worry about over watering, doesn't mean you always should. It's just a nice perk of working with coco. Just like any other medium, if you keep the plant constantly wet, it's not going to grow as fast. At least in coco it wont die, it would have by now soil.

I’m totally new to growing and my seedlings have definitely been overwatered and totally stunted growth, how much would you be watering them when they first sprout? Just a tiny ring around the stem and leave for a couple days providing it doesn’t dry out sooner?

 

[bunkerking]

Switching over to the 250w MH 4300k. Time to give these girls some more light.

 

[Jimster]

I’m totally new to growing and my seedlings have definitely been overwatered and totally stunted growth, how much would you be watering them when they first sprout? Just a tiny ring around the stem and leave for a couple days providing it doesn’t dry out sooner?

When groing in Promix, which is similar to Coco, I plant the seedling directly into it's final home, using well watered 5 gallon buckets. Once planted, I add a tiny bit of water around the perimeter of the seedling, just enough to keep it from drying out the top layer for a day or two. After a day or so, the root should be established enough to supprt itself, as far as needing water. I let the bucket slowly dry out for the first week or two, watering lightly only if needed, which it shouldn't need much, if any. The drying medium will allow the roots to travel deeper into the growing medium and drawing water from the bottom of the bucket. After about a month, roots are usually coming out the bottom holes and I water daily or every other day or so. I don't let them wilt if possible, as it can damage the plant if it happens too often or severe.

 

[bunkerking]

Nothing new for the big plants this morning.

Expect the pot is a lot lighter today.
Hopefully they are drinking lots, and the roots just havnt had the time to explore.

 

[bunkerking]

Ah, I think i misread the plants awhile ago and raised the lights up too much. They were not getting much lux according to the meter.
Readjusted the lights.

Grow roots grow!
Holding strong. Havnt watered. :smoking:

 

[Ph 007]

Maybe try watering one like half a litre see how it reacts ?
Maybe some sort of lock out not drinking
Calmag was giving me lock out when i used it

 

[bunkerking]

Bigger Plants: Pots were super light today.
They took just over a half gallon each just to get a small run off. (2 gallon pots)

Clones: looking super happy today. Sure their roots are glad to not be sitting in water.

I am going to just assume another week and roots should really start exploding.
Just need a few more dry cycles.

 

[Enforcer]

Medium: 50% coco 50% perlite
Current PH: 6.4 (running a cal based line)
Nutes: NFTG
Lights: t5 96W
Temps: mid 70s
RH: low-mid 50s.


I am watering everyday and have been struggling to grow big healthy white roots.
They have been growing super slowly.

Is the trick really to just to stop giving them water for a few days. Let the roots grow out?
And just rebuild the microbes in the soil?

I keep seeing people having massive success with coco.
Most of the time its wet, with white fuzzy roots. (their transplant imgs/root porn)

Any suggestions?

Hey man. Got your message and thank you for the kind words. I did see your thread but didn’t chime in as it looked like you were getting good advice for your situation. But since you asked....

IMHO, it looks like you’re trying to merge two opposing grow styles. Organics and multi feed coco/perlite. I know it sounds like a great idea. But those two do not play well together. I’ll try to explain why.

Multiple daily feed coco/perlite drain to waste is a great growing style for salt based nutrients. It is like hydro, with the benefit of a buffer (coco) that will retain some moisture if, say...a pump fails and you don’t notice for a few days. Your plants won’t die in hours like they would in a style like DWC. The idea is to feed small amounts of low ppm nutrient solution throughout the day. Just enough to get a little runoff. This is called cyclical watering. The plants will come to expect fresh nutrient solution every few hours and growth explodes. You don’t want the coco to ever dry out as that would cause salt buildup, raising the ppm of the medium. Yes, the roots will grow through moist coco just fine. It’s my preferred style and I like the control I get. If I see an issue with the plant, I can just adjust the nutrient solution in the reservoir and hit them again to reset the medium. However, automatic watering of some sort is almost a requirement. It’s not to difficult or expensive to build your own drip system. But it is very difficult to maintain any consistent watering without one.

With organic nutrients this will not work. Organic nutrients are broken down by microbes in the medium and delivered to the roots. Something like a compost tea is already somewhat broken down by the microbial action and more readily available to the plant. But even that takes time to completely be consumed. So what happens over time is the coco/perlite become saturated with decaying organic matter and moisture. A perfectly anaerobic environment for root rot and insect infestation. Roots die due to the lack of oxygen and the plants start to look like crap.

Your particular situation can be fixed one of two ways. You can continue using NFTG nutes and only feed every second or third watering when the pots gets light. Or you can switch to a salt based nutrient, flush the hell out of the coco, and begin daily feeds. Personally, if I were in your shoes, I would lean more towards option one. Then switch it up next grow if that’s what you want.

As for the light. 96w of T5 light is not going to cut the mustard. It may just get by in veg but not in flower. I had a 435w 4 foot 8 bulb T5 parked 5” off the canopy and harvested “ok” bud. I don’t think 96w will do much. You didn’t mention how big of a space you’re in, but I do think you need a bigger light. You don’t have to get the best, but the light is definitely not something I would suggest cheap’n out on.

I do have a grow log here but it’s a little dated at this point.

White Widow 400w Grow.

Welcome to my 2nd grow. Learned a lot from my simultaneous indoor/outdoor grow I just finished. I think I'm going to stick with indoor from now on. So now I'm going to embrace indoor growing completely and I DIY'ed an auto drip system. (Yes, kicking hand watering to the curb only took one...

www.thcfarmer.com

Here’s an OG Kush bud from my last harvest. This plant was watered 6x a day by mid flower.

 

[bunkerking]

4x4 grow tent.
2 gallon fabric pots.


I switched the light to a 250w MH bulb and they appear to really be responding well.
Yep I agree. 98w for Early veg is great.

At some point id love an adjustable 600w.

The Purple punch & C99 are really looking good.

MK Ultra - second time growing it, 1st time it died.
Maybe just genetics.

 

[bunkerking]

also @Enforcer NFTG is prebroken down. Its available to the plant at the time of feeding.
The line was designed for top feeding soil & coco.

I highly recommend any salt users to check out their bonemeal for flushing.

 

[Enforcer]

also @Enforcer NFTG is prebroken down. Its available to the plant at the time of feeding.
The line was designed for top feeding soil & coco.

I highly recommend any salt users to check out their bonemeal for flushing.

True, but not daily feedings. I think that’s where you ran into issues. Your 250w MH is an improvement. But you’re right, a 600w HID is perfect for a 4x4 tent.

 

[bunkerking]

True, but not daily feedings. I think that’s where you ran into issues. Your 250w MH is an improvement. But you’re right, a 600w HID is perfect for a 4x4 tent.

Hmmm. Guess we will have to see. I could try cutting edge if this fails.
The plants were exploding with growth when i started multi daily feedings.

I just stopped because the ones in plastic containers were getting root rot.
I fixed the drainage issue.

MK ultra had root rot when i transplanted it. Due to it growing in a plastic pot with poor drainage.

PP had better roots.

Lack of lights & not feeding often enough + root rot.
Is what i'm thinking?

We shall see.

 

[Enforcer]

The plants were exploding with growth when i started multi daily feedings.

Yes, they will do that. The major benefit of cyclical watering. But with organics the problem compounds over time. More and more organic matter is held by the coco. Which causes the low oxygen environment. I’m not recommending you stop using NFTG. Just to stop using them to daily feed. With plants that size, I would think you are good to just water when the pot is light and only feed once a week.

 

[bunkerking]

Ah - treat it abit more like soil then? But dont ever let it get bone dry. Just light.