Could Air Stones Be Doing More Harm Than Good?

[jumpincactus]

Here is a snippet I found relating to optimal root zone temps. They claim more leaf and dry weight yields based on 20 deg C or 68 deg F

Of course the plant used in the study wasn't cannabis, so until legal restrictions on cannabis studies are loosened and more studies are performed using cannabis specifically, we can only play around to find the sweet spot for our beloved plant. As different species and geographical locations will differ with varying genotypes/phenotypes of plants.

For example strawberries had lower fruit yields at higher RZT and actually preferred temps lower than 20 deg C. So really the take away here is we can only experiment to find what works for each of our strains in our own studies,

The influence of supra-optimal root-zone temperatures on growth and stomatal conductance in Capsicum annuum L.
Dodd IC1, He J, Turnbull CG, Lee SK, Critchley C.

Abstract
Pepper (Capsicum annuum L.) plants were grown aeroponically in a Singapore greenhouse under natural diurnally fluctuating ambient shoot temperatures, but at two different root-zone temperatures (RZTs): a constant 20 +/- 2 degrees C RZT and a diurnally fluctuating ambient (A) (25-40 degrees C) RZT. Plants grown at 20-RZT had more leaves, greater leaf area and dry weight than A-RZT plants. Reciprocal transfer experiments were conducted between RZTs to investigate the effect on plant growth, stomatal conductance (gs) and water relations. Transfer of plants from A-RZT to 20-RZT increased plant dry weight, leaf area, number of leaves, shoot water potential (psi shoot), and gs; while transfer of plants from 20-RZT to A-RZT decreased these parameters. Root hydraulic conductivity was measured in the latter transfer and decreased by 80% after 23 d at A-RZT. Transfer of plants from 20-RZT to A-RZT had no effect on xylem ABA concentration or xylem nitrate concentration, but reduced xylem sap pH by 0.2 units. At both RZTs, gs measured in the youngest fully expanded leaves increased with plant development. In plants with the same number of leaves, A-RZT plants had a higher gs than 20-RZT plants, but only under high atmospheric vapour pressure deficit. The roles of chemical signals and hydraulic factors in controlling gs of aeroponically grown Capsicum plants at different RZTs are discussed.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10938830

 

[jumpincactus]

To add a simple water fall effect is all that is required for good levels of DO in your rez. As others have suggested. Pumps and stones that add heat and mess with Ph levels are in my opinion a waste of time and money when a simple water fall can do the same thing. Water surface turbulence is a great way to increase DO levels. :D

 

[JMcG]

Yeah man, looking awesome!
The only potential problem I see is that as those exploding roots fill the container they might take up most or all of the room that the waterfall needs to do its job.... although you do have some big ass containers there so maybe it won't be an issue. I am in the 13 gallon CC style ones, which are taller and narrower.... hmmmm... maybe you're on to something there!

 

[PhatNuggz]

To add a simple water fall effect is all that is required for good levels of DO in your rez. As others have suggested. Pumps and stones that add heat and mess with Ph levels are in my opinion a waste of time and money when a simple water fall can do the same thing. Water surface turbulence is a great way to increase DO levels. :D

The problem with open rezes is mosquitoes (even though I am indoors), which precludes me from using water fall

 

[Ignignokt]

@Aktommy - funny, I was sorta wondering about your light source too, noticed the natural spectrum and assumed CMH. I'm starting to wonder why anyone would use HPS and the like anymore - I get that it was all that for years, but so was traveling by horse and carriage at one time.

Nice setup.

 

[Aktommy]

Rootballs this morning looking huge and healthy. No airstones just waterfalls

 

[DemonTrich]

Gonna run all my cloners this run w/o the air stones. 2 reasons: 1 too lazy to put them in and run the lines, 2 too lazy to put them in and run the lines (lol). Although it will only take me 5 mins. I did not notice a difference in cloning times with or without out the air stones.

Just a thought about air stones though. If pulling in cooler air and pumping it into the heart cloner or Hydro system, wouldn't the cool air help in lowering water temps?

 

[PhatNuggz]

Gonna run all my cloners this run w/o the air stones. 2 reasons: 1 too lazy to put them in and run the lines, 2 too lazy to put them in and run the lines (lol). Although it will only take me 5 mins. I did not notice a difference in cloning times with or without out the air stones.

Just a thought about air stones though. If pulling in cooler air and pumping it into the heart cloner or Hydro system, wouldn't the cool air help in lowering water temps?

Where I am, the ambient room is 80*s++ > 6 months, so not in that case. Prior to reading about 'no stones', I tried putting the pump over a bucket with blue ice blocks.

This grow I have 2 separate tents. One 2+g rez is flooming every 15 minutes for 3-4 minutes, BUT, I have to work on getting more splash (aeration): the other is 2g rez with 4 air stones directly under the root ball.

Both are doing well, and about the same result. The pheno over the stones has more branches and more buds, but the buds aren't any bigger

In my other tent that I harvested last week, I used a passive cooler and had much better flooming. Great result

AKTommy, great roots, unlike most DWC roots, which look like swollen spaghetti strings. The finer the roots, the better

 

[heisen]

i cant believe this is real.I have a built DWC and the return line that comes back to my control bucket is a waterfall that adds plenty tot he control bucket.I had a couple airstones that were clogged and immediately my plants started to look like shit in a couple days so i have no idea how no airstones in the buckets is working and not making the plants have that crinkled up leaves and overwatered look.but than again those buds in the 3rd or 4th page look less than impressive.I dont mind the airstones.i have chillers to combat the heat so its not a big deal.you can see the plants in this pic that had clogged stones and wasnt enough air in the buckets.you can see the ones that are healthy had plenty of air.The pipe that runs down the middle is dumping a shit load of water into the control bucket and lots of air but it wasnt enough for the plants.i use the 6 inch disc stones.

bottom left and top right plants were suffering from lack of air

 

[DemonTrich]

I went back to using air stones in my cloners. Much better growth with them.

 

[heisen]

heres some air stone 3 week old plant

roots.

 

[Aktommy]

Video update of my 12 site system with no airstones and CMH lighting. This is the start of week 6 in flower. Plants look amazing.

 

[PharmHand]

heres some air stone 3 week old plantView attachment 698012 roots.

Lol nice! Just goes to show there are few rigid rules when it comes to how to grow just gotta make things work for your situation/setup. There's an rdwc legend named double ds (doubledsyields on IG) he still rocking air stones and slaying it 3+ pound plants.... Always be cautious of anyone saying their way is the best or the only way.... That is a closed mind

 

[heisen]

Video update of my 12 site system with no airstones and CMH lighting. This is the start of week 6 in flower. Plants look amazing.

are you supplying each bucket with a forced water entry creating air in each bucket?Also how much water is in the buckets.If its well below it would seem to me that that would be more of a hybrid DWC system kinda like a mixed flood and drain because the roots would be getting most of there oxygen from the air and not the water.

 

[heisen]

nevermind i went a looked at your thread.I had thought about doing it this way before but it would require a big ass pump to push that much water into each bucket.I was also worried the roots would grow over and between the jets facing the water and keep them from supplying water to the surface which gives you the DO.Im sure you have to stay on top of that and check and make sure the rotts arent blocking the jets from the water.I use stones because i use scrogs and once the scrog is set up i cant open the buckets.Its basically once the screen is filled in i forget about it.

 

[PhatNuggz]

All plants started in tote on the left

on the left 2 plants flooming in dwc,
on the right is a combination of F & D and rez flooming

 

[FooDoo]

To my fellow brothers who can comprehend science and apply their knowledge , thank you. When I see people succeed it brings me fulfillment. I don't care how many pounds I grow, it means nothing in death; but how many people I helped in my journey will resonate long after my physical form here has ended.


I left this website because of narrow minded uneducated people and found a more mentally demanding platform in colleges where people always ask "why" or "how" instead of "what can I buy to increase yields "

I'm still growing without airstones and having massive health and yeilds. And others are too. Is it witch craft? Black magic? Divine intervention? Or maybe All an elaborate ruse to try and get people to pull air pumps so their crops die and the rest of us can take over the market?

No. It's not. It's cut and dry. Black and white. water takes in its own oxygen dependent on temperature and pressure.

Tesla created free energy from zero point energy in vacuum. Literally nothingness holds enough energy to power a city. He wanted to give energy to America for free. He was quickly shut up and discredited.

The same concept is happening when people are giving you free information on how to grow for less cost and it's being discredited by ignorance and the drive for profits in buying air pumps, air lines, air stones and paying electricity to run them

I don't plan to post anymore but I was compelled to log in to thank the people who think outside the box and have a deep hunger for knowledge. when we receive that knowledge, the only thing we want to do with it is share it for free with our fellow man.

 

[MidwestToker]

Sorry to see you go. But happy growing wherever you are.

 

[heisen]

Tell that to this plant which was right next to the epi with a waterfall in it.this.plants airstone was clogged.maybe more strains are more sensitive or less to DO but I know this plant shit the bed when airstone wasn't working right.it's more than obvious it wasn't getting enough oxyogen.

 

[FooDoo]

Tell that to this plant which was right next to the epi with a waterfall in it.this.plants airstone was clogged.maybe more strains are more sensitive or less to DO but I know this plant shit the bed when airstone wasn't working right.it's more than obvious it wasn't getting enough oxyogen.
View attachment 698429

You are looking at that plant and using the least reliable source (eye sight) to document your interpretation of what's happening.

A great white shark, that weighs anywhere from 1,500lbs to 2,400 lbs, that's constantly moving and hunting only requires 2 ppm of DO to breathe under water. But you're telling me that dinky littl plant suffocated from one airstone malfunction?

To scientifically determine what happened to your plant, we need to know facts. Do you have a picture of the root system and the water level of that "dying" plant.