Could I Please Get A Little Help With Deficiency

[RoeBuck]

While I can appreciate the ease of using a doser, there is something to be said for allowing your pH to swing from around 5.6 up to 6.2. Different nutrients are up taken best at different pH levels so allowing that swing ensures that each element is exposed to the optimum pH.

 

[JMcG]

Ha! As soon as I spout off and sounded like I knew something it came back to bite me! Just in the last week a couple of my week five girls started doing ng you mentioned, tip and margin burn throughout the plant but more prominently showing on the upper half. A bit of tip curl and some pretty bad canoeing, again the worst of it was in the upper 12" of the plants. The others in the system that are ten days behind are fine still... although maybe a bit green. ( I know, plants of different age in the same system is bad, never again!)
By now the two in question are going into week six, nice healthy colas but I am maxed out on height and they are within 18" of the 600 watt HpS . I do struggle with keeping humidity levels up but they are usually in the 40-50 % range, fresh air only on a climate control set to 78 degrees daytime, 68 at night.
I tend to see these symptoms set in at this stage in bloom, right around week six.
Reading into it last night I think one possible cause is that I have been using too much P and a bit too early the cycle. Again, reverting back to the " gotta feed em more " mentality I was pushing P and K boosters early in bloom than necessary. Coupled with PPMs in general being a touch too high, it all catches up around week five. Now it also show as a cal mag issue..? Does this sound right?

 

[JMcG]

This is usually when I start chasing down " deficiencies " and want to increase ppms, maybe not the way to go...

 

[RoeBuck]

This is usually when I start chasing down " deficiencies " and want to increase ppms, maybe not the way to go...

Do you monitor your pH and ppm on a daily basis? Also, can you post some pics so we can see for ourselves?

 

[JMcG]

Yup. Check ppms and ph daily.
I inderstand how the Ppms should stay fairly even or drop slightly as being a good indication of hitting the sweet spot, and things seemed pretty well under control for the first four weeks or so... nice low levels of nutes, 200 ppm at the flip.
Now I am getting a bit unsure of what is happening. Week five and six, they should be ramping up and wanting more right? I am confused because now is when they typically start showing sights of stress. So instead of boosting them right now I am actually flushing am and trying to drop notes down.... yesterday I left them at 225 in the system and 240 in the Rez, today the Rez was almost empty ( not very big) and the ppms dropped almost 30 points in the system. That means they're hungry for more right? But I still see what I THINK is signs of burn... wtf man?
In week six now, and they look similar to the OP s pics on page one but not burned quite as bad. Pretty bad canoeing, minimal burn and tip curl. I will try to get a picture up later today.

 

[JMcG]

FYI I am running GH nutes using Lucas formula and some info from a previous thread from Foodoo I think...
Per gallon:
4 mls micro
9 mls bloom
4 mls calimagic
I have adjusted it slightly tho trying to drop the nitrogen a bit:
3.5 mls micro
9 mls bloom
4 mls calimagic

On the run in question I did blast them in week one and two with some dry Koop Bloom to kick in flowering, which I have to say got them pumping out hairs like crazy fast, but may have started the " too much P too early " syndrome.
Or am I going in the wrong direction entirely?
I am all ears... thanks for the advice!

 

[JMcG]

Here is a couple of pics.

 

[JMcG]

The first shot shows the LA Confidential in week six, a bit of burn but a lot of canoeing, mainly in the upper half but some down low too. The lower left corner of the at pic also shows a BC Diesel that is ten days behind the LAC , on the same system, and it is just barely stating to show signs of the same issue. Ten days ago the LAC looked similar.

 

[Tbone]

The first shot shows the LA Confidential in week six, a bit of burn but a lot of canoeing, mainly in the upper half but some down low too. The lower left corner of the at pic also shows a BC Diesel that is ten days behind the LAC , on the same system, and it is just barely stating to show signs of the same issue. Ten days ago the LAC looked similar.

Yup , Looks just like mine started out and at about the similar time. It just kept getting progressively worse. Im curious what ppm you are at at week 6.
Im using Clean Grow nutrients and the chemist that makes these nutes recomended I run a little higher than I would using Cultured Solutions. Veg was flawless up to 350ppm but at week 5 started having the problem. I was upping the nutes pretty hard in flower. I am now planning to back my schedule down a bit from last time and do a few more water changes than I usually do to make sure the nutrient mix stays viabale.
I am in week 3 of veg on my new grow. Ill try to start taking weekly pics so to post the progression along with you JMcG.

 

[Tbone]

Fast foreward a little over a month and I an in my second week of flower.
The nutrienr company (Cleangrow) originally recomended to be at 650-700 ppm by week 3 of flower and peak out at around 900ppm. There theory is not really less is more but more like try to stay just right on ppms. With that said I am trying this grow to run a little lower on ppms . I am in the middle of week 2 and just moved up from 550 to 600 ppms.So far the plants look pretty good! They look a little bit like they are hungry, and seem to have a little bit of a potash deficiency. But looking vey healtrhy overall.
Sorry about the yellow in the pics. Im not real camera savy and the yellowing is due to taking pictures with the HPS lights on.

First day of flower I stripped them down pretty good.

Two weeks after defoliating. (THC bomb Strain)

Just a few leaves have some edges browning and a little brown spotting.
View attachment 677858
View attachment 677858

 

[Tbone]

You can also see how the leaves are dark at the viens but lighten up in the leaf.
This Run I am using:
Clean Grows Cal Mag supplement which adds 150ppm to the mix
Bud Fasctor X which adds about 60 ppm to the profile .
I am bringing in the Clean Grow Bud booster a week earlier to get a little more potash in the profile.
And just trying to stay a little lower in total ppms per recomendations on this forum.

Seems to be working much better!! My last couple grows problems would have developed by now so feeling pretty good.

 

[JMcG]

Hey Tbone
Sorry I missed your last couple of posts dude! I moved over to the LA Con thread I found and posted shots of her near the end. What a beast!
Listen man, While I have been around the block a few times I certainly don't consider myself past the point of learning better techniques... it's why I joined the Farm!
Saying that... I am not sure I am confident in how my nute schedule has been working. I now have six UC runs under my belt and I am still chasing the sweet spot. For me, it seems low ppm is the way to be, I rarely can get much past 350 at peak without some burn or some sign of excess. Plants are dark green and some tip burn by week five or so, and then the canoeing, my favorite. Sounds like toxicity to me , but then I see similar set ups going up to 600 and looking good so IDK.
All in all, come harvest time they look pretty friggin good IMO and taste nice six weeks later after a good dry/ cure, so I can't say I'm disappointed at all, just know I can do better!

 

[Tbone]

Hi JMcG ,
I appreciate you posting and sharing about our sinilar problems!
I think its the tricky thing of giving the plants what they need when they need it. I took your advice on the lower ppms and that worked great during veg, but the plants leaves started to lighten up when I flipped to flower so I moved up a little. Right now I am at 600 ppm ( 150 ppm cal mag, 60 ppm bud factor X, and 390ppm base nutes)and the plants look much better. So, I guess, in a way, I am running a little lower nutes. Clean grow Nutrients recomended I run there cal mag at full strength dose which I think is whats fixing my initial problems.
So far this grow I havent had the leaves start conoeing at all, but Im only on week two of flower. Im running DE lamps and this time around I put the fixtures to the cieling right from the begining of flower.
Really trying three different things: Lights up higher, more Cal Mag, and bringing in booster for increased Phosphorus and Potash a little sooner in the cycle.
Its a little hard comparing apples to apples because we are using different nutrient companies. But the two brands are similar for sure. Only Clean Grow doesnt have an early booster.
I love this style of growing, building stays cleaner, They grow like a weed!!, Yield has been amazing, and in a way I like the challenge of chasing down a cure for a deficiency.
The spots I posted are actually only on a couple of leaves this time which is a great improvement. May have just been from a little too much ph.
Ill try to remember to come back once a week and post progress, that way if shit starts going wrong we can touch on it.

 

[Tbone]

JMcG,
This is how my dosers are set up. Im really impressed with the intellidose and the intelliclimate although I have had a few problems with the peristaltic pumps but there doing pretty good now. This set up runs two rooms that are side by side.The upper pumps run the left room and the lower pumps feed the right room. Thought I would show and tell the dosing setup. Wish there were more forums with people discussing auto dosing.

 

[palm eezy]

what both of you guys are showing pix of points to possible Mg deficiency. i believe the 4-4-9 (without floragro) is a little light on the Mg, and higher in P, which might not be best for water culture.

epsom salts could help. or for $$, Fulmag. but it's not necessarily as simple as "more Mg". too much P can cause Mg & other deficiencies. can't find literature to back it up but P is more readily available in straight up water vs. other mediums. if i'm wrong i hope someone corrects me.

what kind of dosages are you using with the dry kool bloom? i'm only using it very sparingly late in the cycle. max .2g/gal and i'll do that halfway thru a batch so it's only in there a few days. regardless, JMcG your buds look awesome. frost all the way down the fans like that always seems to curl the leaves.

JMcG, what are the symptoms that have you lowering the nitrogen? just curious.

Tbone, how often do you change out nutes? do you have a fogger?

 

[Ignignokt]

@Tbone - I'm impressed with your setup. It seems you had a few bucks and a mind to be organized.

 

[Tbone]

what both of you guys are showing pix of points to possible Mg deficiency. i believe the 4-4-9 (without floragro) is a little light on the Mg, and higher in P, which might not be best for water culture.

epsom salts could help. or for $$, Fulmag. but it's not necessarily as simple as "more Mg". too much P can cause Mg & other deficiencies. can't find literature to back it up but P is more readily available in straight up water vs. other mediums. if i'm wrong i hope someone corrects me.

what kind of dosages are you using with the dry kool bloom? i'm only using it very sparingly late in the cycle. max .2g/gal and i'll do that halfway thru a batch so it's only in there a few days. regardless, JMcG your buds look awesome. frost all the way down the fans like that always seems to curl the leaves.

JMcG, what are the symptoms that have you lowering the nitrogen? just curious.

Tbone, how often do you change out nutes? do you have a fogger?

I have 2- Ideal air humidifiers in the flower rooms but no true fogger. Since I went to dosers I have been doing less water changes, like once every 2-3 weeks. Last run I started dosing epsom salts rather than using extra cal mag because I didnt want to get too much calcium in the mix but this run I am using full dose Cal mag, things look much better. One thing I did do is bring in Clean grows liquis booster a little earlier than calls for but just a few days early.
Bloom A - 4-0-4
Bloom B- 0-6-4
Liquid Booster 0-6-4 (Right now Im using half dose)schedule says next week go to 3/4 dose, and week 4 100%

 

[JMcG]

Damn tbone... friggin excellent set up.
Yeah I think we are chasing the same problems. Seems like I always see mg deficiency by the end of the cycle, maybe not a bad case but it is there. On this run I think I threw a PK booster ( liquid kook bloom and maybe a touch of dry) too early. Read about it somewhere and thought I would try it early, like ten days from flip. It did kick them into budding high gear with lots of early pistil formation, but may have led to my problems later on.
That Lucas formula that I was using for eons with success was not really doing it for me in the UC , I think the cali magic and micro combo was giving me too much N. Palmeezy, I kept getting really dark green leaves and some light clawing.
One thing I will change up is to start tapering nutes back starting at what... week six or so. Something I haven't really paid enough attention to in the past.
Also, I am certain my humidity and VPD is not where it should be. My cold , arid environment keeps me at low levels of both. Rarely above 60 ( at night) and more like 35-45 during lights on. No mold issues tho... ever! Powdery mildew... never!

 

[JMcG]

Love the dosing set up btw!
Maybe someday... kinda high tech for this mountain man.

 

[Tbone]

Love the dosing set up btw!
Maybe someday... kinda high tech for this mountain man.

I really like the Intellidose . It just works! And once you get to know the controller,its fairly simple to program. I have had my share of issues with the pumps though, Not holding prime and not accurately dosing the right amount of fluid which I know has been a big part of the deficiency problem. I put check valves on the suction lines for this run. Pumps seem to be doing better now. Wish I could find a forum for Doser users!

I gotta put

Damn tbone... friggin excellent set up.
Yeah I think we are chasing the same problems. Seems like I always see mg deficiency by the end of the cycle, maybe not a bad case but it is there. On this run I think I threw a PK booster ( liquid kook bloom and maybe a touch of dry) too early. Read about it somewhere and thought I would try it early, like ten days from flip. It did kick them into budding high gear with lots of early pistil formation, but may have led to my problems later on.
That Lucas formula that I was using for eons with success was not really doing it for me in the UC , I think the cali magic and micro combo was giving me too much N. Palmeezy, I kept getting really dark green leaves and some light clawing.
One thing I will change up is to start tapering nutes back starting at what... week six or so. Something I haven't really paid enough attention to in the past.
Also, I am certain my humidity and VPD is not where it should be. My cold , arid environment keeps me at low levels of both. Rarely above 60 ( at night) and more like 35-45 during lights on. No mold issues tho... ever! Powdery mildew... never!

a plug in for someone. The Intellidose Representative is outright awesome when it come to customer service. She has made all the difference!