Crappy looking plants

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Light- hlg 600/mhezi 300 for veg/seedling
Nutrients-gh 2 part(1/2 strength, cal-mag(2ml per gal), silicone(1ml per gallon) mid in r.o water ran with oxygen pump 24 hrs prior to mixing. Use powerhead to mix nutrients for atleast 15 min
Ph 5.8-6.1(calibrated blue lab montior)
Media- coco/perilite(using zoo med earth--worked first 2 times and locally available)
Light schedule- 20/4
Leaf temps(78-80°f)
Humidty 60-65%

I grew hydro for 4 years under hps. I wanted to give coco a try, first I just grew/flowered small plants fit in room with hydro to practice. After 2 successful grows I enjoyed the product/it being more simple to clean up. Now I'm going to do a full run with coco, and also switched to leds. 4 are from seed 2 are clones, all started with leds and coco.

My plants look like crap haha, not the end of the world, assumed I'd mess up somewhere lol. I'm at a dead end though, I've adjusted light height/intensity, nutrient strength, no cal-mag, no silicone, flushed, slowly started adding nutes, fan, foliar feed. I've not had plants look like this since first grow. I also did these steps over time not all at once. The 2 seeds are about 6weeks old, other 2 4 weeks, clones(2 bigger, yellowing ones) are older but heavily defoliated/topped under weak light to keep small till recently. I water when they feel light/ top slightly dry(never to point where plants wilt). No signs of pests, had gnats for 2ish weeks but with acv, soap, and water havent seen one in awhile. I have scoped leaves no sign of pests on them. It looks like they have everything wrong with them.

Any help or point in the right direction would be greatly appreciated.
 
Sounds like you have been trying everything on the right track/order. When all else fails I always just whip up a batch of very basic compost tea to try and bring my microbe count back up.
 
Sounds like you have been trying everything on the right track/order. When all else fails I always just whip up a batch of very basic compost tea to try and bring my microbe count back up.
And it looks like you could be pretty heavily deficient in sulfur after examining the pictures. Do you have any epsom salt on hand? It will provide sulfur and magnesium.
 
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Light- hlg 600/mhezi 300 for veg/seedling
Nutrients-gh 2 part(1/2 strength, cal-mag(2ml per gal), silicone(1ml per gallon) mid in r.o water ran with oxygen pump 24 hrs prior to mixing. Use powerhead to mix nutrients for atleast 15 min
Ph 5.8-6.1(calibrated blue lab montior)
Media- coco/perilite(using zoo med earth--worked first 2 times and locally available)
Light schedule- 20/4
Leaf temps(78-80°f)
Humidty 60-65%

I grew hydro for 4 years under hps. I wanted to give coco a try, first I just grew/flowered small plants fit in room with hydro to practice. After 2 successful grows I enjoyed the product/it being more simple to clean up. Now I'm going to do a full run with coco, and also switched to leds. 4 are from seed 2 are clones, all started with leds and coco.

My plants look like crap haha, not the end of the world, assumed I'd mess up somewhere lol. I'm at a dead end though, I've adjusted light height/intensity, nutrient strength, no cal-mag, no silicone, flushed, slowly started adding nutes, fan, foliar feed. I've not had plants look like this since first grow. I also did these steps over time not all at once. The 2 seeds are about 6weeks old, other 2 4 weeks, clones(2 bigger, yellowing ones) are older but heavily defoliated/topped under weak light to keep small till recently. I water when they feel light/ top slightly dry(never to point where plants wilt). No signs of pests, had gnats for 2ish weeks but with acv, soap, and water havent seen one in awhile. I have scoped leaves no sign of pests on them. It looks like they have everything wrong with them.

Any help or point in the right direction would be greatly appreciated.
Talk about pH
 
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Nutrients-gh 2 part(1/2 strength, cal-mag(2ml per gal), silicone(1ml per gallon) mid in r.o water ran with oxygen pump 24 hrs prior to mixing. Use powerhead to mix nutrients for atleast 15 min
When you say "gh 2 part", is that Flora Duo? (There is a Flora Series 3-part, and sometimes people only use two parts of it -- which can be a problem.).

If it's Flora Duo, how much of each part do you use?
 
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I do use bennies forgot to include that in nutrient line up.

I like the sulphur idea because that is one are that has changed. During my first 2 runs I used full strength Lucas(8/16 from rooted clone to end of flower(. Never had an issue, great results actually.

Reading more on coco I came across the lucas formula for coco being (6/9). That's what I've been using or trying to use as "full strength". After first 2 attempts, minus led switch, I am feeding a weaker nutrient solution. Sulfer is woud fit the bill on whatvim seeing, especially in the two bigger clones.
 
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Talk about pH
What do you mean? I use proper ph (5.8-6.1). I dont use a cheap ph pen, and the blue lab ph monitor is calibrated regularly...infact it tells me when it wants calibrated,every 30 days with flashing lights. I rinse with r.o water after after every use. Between uses its stored properly in ph probe solution with twist on cap. Storage solution changed every time I calibrate.
 
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Sorry yes, when I said 2 part I meant the lucas formal for coco(6mL micro/ 9mL bloom).
That's an NPK ratio of 1-1.42-1.34 . That seems a little low on N for that stage of growth. I don't hit that till mid flower. I would be more 2-1-1.7 in veg. 1-1-1.8 in transition.

Also, you said half strength? If you were following the GH schedule, I would agree that's a wise thing to do. But, doesn't the Lucas schedule state what actually works? Not some hypothetical max that the manufacturers tend to engage in (which leads to people always starting at half strength)?

Is it customary for users of Lucas to use half strength? I wouldn't think so. I thought that was just a "margin of safety" thing when following manufacturer "recommended dosage."
 
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That's an NPK ratio of 1-1.42-1.34 . That seems a little low on N for that stage of growth. I don't hit that till mid flower. I would be more 2-1-1.7 in veg. 1-1-1.8 in transition.

Also, you said half strength? If you were following the GH schedule, I would agree that's a wise thing to do. But, doesn't the Lucas schedule state what actually works? Not some hypothetical max that the manufacturers tend to engage in (which leads to people always starting at half strength)?

Is it customary for users of Lucas to use half strength? I wouldn't think so. I thought that was just a "margin of safety" thing when following manufacturer "recommended dosage."
That is all true, just came across a few threads on hear saying 6/9,. Which is straying off the Lucas formula 8/16. I used 8/16 for 3 years and never had any issue, used it on coco first two times never had an issue, looks like I'm going back to that ratio. And see if things turn around for them. The 16mL of bloom will increase sulfur as well. If it doesnt I'll just pop more beans lol. It's too hot out side for me to worry about starting a flower for a couple months still.
 
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I agree with @az2000 they look hungry as hell to me.

If using RO and LED I would use cal mag at full strength of directions, especially in coco

Do you know the ppm of your feed? Never used those nutes and I'm in RDWC so a bit different but not that much. I would say at this stage you want to be around 5-700ppm.

When mixing add your SI first then add your nutes then ph if this is not what your doing but I'm betting you are doing it correctly.
 
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What do you mean? I use proper ph (5.8-6.1). I dont use a cheap ph pen, and the blue lab ph monitor is calibrated regularly...infact it tells me when it wants calibrated,every 30 days with flashing lights. I rinse with r.o water after after every use. Between uses its stored properly in ph probe solution with twist on cap. Storage solution changed every time I calibrate.
I was curious if you were using 5.8 or 6.1 in cocoa, I don't use coco but I would keep it around 6.1, based on what I've observed on line 5.8 doesn't seem as popular in Coco, good luck
 
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That is all true, just came across a few threads on hear saying 6/9,. Which is straying off the Lucas formula 8/16.
FWIW: 8ml micro with 16ml bloom is NPK ratio 1 - 1.89 - 1.71. (689ppm) That's less nitrogen (as a ratio) than the OP is creating. I don't hit that till later in flower.

The OP's 6/9 is 1 - 1.42 - 1.34 (438ppm).

So, the problem is probably strength. But, in my way of growing, either way is cutting N too much too soon. But, I've never grown in coco. Maybe this works for that.
 
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I was curious if you were using 5.8 or 6.1 in cocoa, I don't use coco but I would keep it around 6.1, based on what I've observed on line 5.8 doesn't seem as popular in Coco, good luck
Think you are right... That's what I have seen also for coco. But never grown in it.
FWIW: 8ml micro with 16ml bloom is NPK ratio 1 - 1.89 - 1.71. (689ppm) That's less nitrogen (as a ratio) than the OP is creating. I don't hit that till later in flower.

The OP's 6/9 is 1 - 1.42 - 1.34 (438ppm).

So, the problem is probably strength. But, in my way of growing, either way is cutting N too much too soon. But, I've never grown in coco. Maybe this works for that.
See that all the time N is cut way to early +1
 
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I grew in rdwc for 3 years and it was fairly easy, got to a point of understanding the relationship between ppm and ph, I was topping off nutrients daily and doing water changes every 2 or 3 weeks sometimes 4 if working alot. I'll pry go back to it in a couple of grows, just liked the idea of not cleaning clay pebbles, pvc, return tubes, powerheads, or buckets for a while lol.

I'll post some pictures of them in a week or 2, hopefully it was just simply going back to 8/16. If not hydro set up is going right back in.

Thanks for all the timely replys everyone, they were defintly helpful.
 
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I grew in rdwc for 3 years and it was fairly easy, got to a point of understanding the relationship between ppm and ph, I was topping off nutrients daily and doing water changes every 2 or 3 weeks sometimes 4 if working alot. I'll pry go back to it in a couple of grows, just liked the idea of not cleaning clay pebbles, pvc, return tubes, powerheads, or buckets for a while lol.

I'll post some pictures of them in a week or 2, hopefully it was just simply going back to 8/16. If not hydro set up is going right back in.

Thanks for all the timely replys everyone, they were defintly helpful.
I run a live system and clean nothing. Between runs if I have a week or 2 of downtime I keep my filter running on a 5gal pail that I feed my bacteria small amounts of ammonia until running again and will clean out the rest of the system. If I keep going I just drain and fill and keep on truckin. I prefer to just keep running to keep my bacteria population healthy.
 
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I water when they feel light/ top slightly dry(never to point where plants wilt).

This is the problem more than anything else. Coco is ideally kept moist and it will not be a good media for wet and dry cycles. Younger developing plants are put into stress due to this and I don't advise such unless really root bound and even then it is best to avoid letting things dry out. Once a plant is well established in coco it will require several feedings daily.

pH you will find is better when it fluctuates from 5.8 -6.5 in veg with the higher end being favored by many even though 6.2 is the average. In early flowering you can begin to go lower and I like to see 5.5-6.0 during this period and I have been working with these figures in coco for around ten years utilizing this with all types of cannabis in order to find a happy medium with 30+ different plants on average and each uniquely different, even in preference. EC though, well that is a different story with this many different types in coco. I keep it under 2.0 ec in veg and the transition, and in flower upwards of 1600 ppm( .5 conversion) depending upon the plant. Average in flower is 1200 ppm
 
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Good information, thanks.

Wont lie alot of what I'm doing is based off my notes/doodles from observations when I first started coco. One of my bold/capitlized notes was dont over water. I did try keeping coco on moist side in veg and water twice daily at first. Plants started to look over watered and not reach for light. Thats why I went longer between feedings, it made them happy. I never let pot get super light or bone dry, just dryish to where I can stick finger in and feel moisture still, but not soggy. So maybe we are talking about the same thing, and I'm just poorly describing how I do it. For flower I do have/use a automatic feed system on timer that feeds 3 times a day and it stays faily wet but they love it then, pry what you meant by developed roots. If this recent nutrient change doesnt work I will definitely hook up automatic feeder so they get a few small feedings a day. I'll also raise my p.h. on tomorrow's feeding to 6.2-and keep it between 6.2-6.5 for veg, and lower in flower. Thanks for letting me know it could also be how I water. I'm simply going off stuff I learned from first two runs with coco.....still alot to learn if you cant tell lol.
 
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FYI: Attached is a PDF showing the NPK ratios & PPMs for three different schedules (using Gen Hydro's Flora Series 3-part). That might give you an idea of how the "Lucas" schedule compares.

The PDF has a link to the spreadsheet that I use to do this. I think it's really handy to see the NPK ratio arising from multiple bottles. You can't compare things if you don't see that. It's just "this bottle's better than that bottle." It's not really what the plant sees.

I have used the "Useless" schedule. I know that PPM strength works in soilless Pro-Mix HP (with 25% more perlite added). It was a little too strong for me. Maybe 10% less would be better. Those strengths might be guidelines for what you can do with "Lucas."

(Sorry for replying to you earlier and referring to "the OP." I lost track of who was who.).
 
View attachment General Hydroponics - Flora Series 3-part.pdf
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I run a live system and clean nothing. Between runs if I have a week or 2 of downtime I keep my filter running on a 5gal pail that I feed my bacteria small amounts of ammonia until running again and will clean out the rest of the system. If I keep going I just drain and fill and keep on truckin. I prefer to just keep running to keep my bacteria population healthy.
Just read this while re-reading messages to make sure I didnt miss any shared information, and I did lol.

I keep fish tanks and was always curious if a properly set up hydroponics systems could house bacteria properly for a healthy nitrogen cycle long term(year plus). A live system would be easy to maintain at that point. I will definently keep that in mind/look more into it when I set my rdwc system back up. I did use micron filters to keep rez water crystal clear, air stones for the anerobic bacteria/roots and activated carbon to control odors. Do you do small water changes during veg/flower or just top off and maintain nutrient(ppm) level? How long have you kept system running with out taking apart cleaning between grows?
 

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