Cubing - A myth by Chimera

[taller]

Thanks for the info

Thanks for the info, I've never read any information that has been anywhere near being that detailed.

 

[taller]

That was a great article

That was a great article. Very informative

 

[Captain ChroniK]

Thanx for the good read!

 

[20north]

damn

good

read...............

 

[Blue frog]

WOW my head hurts from all that reading:icon_dizzy: but really good info.I will go smoke one and rest my self:smiley_joint:

 

[slmndl]

where are the girl breeders?

There must be some out there. Never see any female posts, or moderators or breeders on the internet. It's not that I need to discuss "girl stuff" I just want to enter the fray.

 

[Medical_Breeder]

great thread yall

 

[matkins1234]

Chimera's such a scientist with this it's incredible. Everything of his i've read reminds of me of my plant biology classes in college. That being said, he speaks the truth. If you backcross the way he says to in this thread you'll definitely get some stabilized genetics that you can be proud of.

 

[mgen]

Resin is what breeding is all about, the other traits are all secondary... now I believe the genetic makeup of resin must be very complex, so it may be impossible to get a daughter plant with exactly the same resin (high) as the mother plant.

Yep exactly what you define as a trait will determine whether it is going to follow basic mendelien genetics.

As you said resin production is not a simple trait, it's not just about presence/absence of THC, it's the amount not only of THC but other structurally related compounds, all of which will be quantitative traits (ie exist as a continuum). I'm not sure there has been a lot if any research done on the cannabinoid biosynthetic pathway.

Depending on how the pathways is (constructed) there is going to be a huge number of potential ways a difference at the DNA level could manifest itself in the functioning of the pathway(s) and hence expression of the "trait". These could Be:
*mutations in the biosynthetic gene coding region, producing enzymes with differential activity whose combination would produce changes in the flux through the pathway(s) and hence a change in the balance of metabolites within the pathway(s) (ie milieu of cannabinoids)
* mutations that change the abundance of any of these enzymes (activity tends to be proportional to abundance). These could be within promoter/enhancer/terminator regions in the up/down stream of the gene, in the 3/5` UTR of the resulting mRNA transcript or even within the coding region itself due to codon usage effect.
* mutation in genes that control the production of any of these enzyme ie transcritpion factors, mRNA processing, chromatin remodelling, translation, processing sorting enzymes.
*mutation in proteins that post-translationally modify the biosynthetic enzymes, changing activity/localisation/protein-protein interaction etc...

All we need to do is sequence the cannabis genome, construct a SNP chip, perform a mass breeding program, use HPLC to determine metabolite levels, MS-MS to measure protein abundance/modification, mRNA microarray chips etc... and we could sort it out ;)

 

[Kindred_Dicots]

Good Information here! Thanks!:party0033:

 

[sunsimulator]

NICE when ppl see me say ( trait linkage ) ,, or dihybrid ,

or that im tryin to stabilize 2 traits at a time,, into different plants ,,this is what i mean ,,

parent plants only put off so many traits to the offspring ,
so we must collect the traits that we think we need ,, and then combine them back into order . Some ppl can do this within 2 months lmao and some ppl it take years ,, me myself working with ecsd has taken years!

nice info ,, thanks Tex and Chimira

 

[revolutionseeds]

Incredible read, thank you for posting it!

 

[Onespark]

because I knew there was a section on breeding in there. .

You have got to read Greg Green's Cannabis Breeders Bible. Book is bad ass!

Chimera. Great thread and info. Wow.:clapping

 

[itwasntme]

found this

me

 

[berzerkrrr]

Wow. This site is no joke. Been trying to find a serious grow site for REAL LEGIT info and ive found it. Seasoned grower and stepping up to the breeding area of cannabis. Very excited but very overwhelmed so much data and just growing cannabis can be tricky enuff. Is there any recent good books on breeding? And to chimera: Your the man! The cannabis world needs advanced breeders like urself.

 

[SoCalDam]

Wow, that was so far over my head it's rediculous! Now let me ask u this, How can u tell all these genotypes in the plants? Do you get these things tested in a lab or are you just judging based on growth patern, leaf structure, smell and vigor? Great info btw

 

[Ohiofarmer]

Only read that post on one other site ever and it was like a year ago lol. Great shit Tex kid and Chimera......If only i could smoke with chimera..........ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz

First year Botany-horticulture just makes me happy to see that my education can reward me eventually.:character0053:

 

[vector]

Dont forget about Incomplete Dominance!


This is a very informative article but it leaves out the possibility of other types of inheritance that effect phenotypes, specifically incomplete dominance.

Incomplete Dominance - Is a very important aspect of cannabis breeding! Any trait that is a blend of two traits comes from Incomplete dominance not co-dominance.

Here is an example from flower color to illustrate the difference between Co-dominance and incomplete dominance.

White x Red = Pink (incomplete dominance)
White x Red = Red and white spots (Co-dominance)

Height in cannabis plants is definitely Co-Dominant
Resin Production could be either co-dominance or incomplete dominance.


A super useful tool for breeders would be a list of traits and their inheritance type.

1) Plant Height - Incomplete Dominance
2) Resin Production - ?
3) Bud Smell - Likely Incomplete Dominance
4) Plant structure - Likely Codominance

Etc....

 

[r0z]

Greetings Tobor

My intent is most certainly not to speak for Chimera, but I am applying my answer to the one of your questions that I can reasonably respond to. In terms of breeding techniques: the conclusion of 'good' or 'bad' is verifiably dependant on application and intent.

All that should be inferred is: Backcrossing is not the most reliable method of stabilizing traits that are expressed co-dominantly or ones which are polygenic.

Co-dominance relates to two alleles of a gene pair in a heterozygote that are both fully expressed. Simplistically, both the dominant and the recessive forms of a trait are expressed in what could be termed a 'mixed phenotype'.

Going back to Mendel: If dominant is red, and recessive is white, then co-dominant would be pink.

Polygenic refers to the combined action and expressed interaction of alleles of more than one gene resulting in a single trait.

This response is an analogy to the process of backcrossing: It throughly answered only one of your questions.

Sincerely,
Charles.

If I may offer up an explanation in layman's terms as I understand it for people who are unfamiliar with the terminology you are using:

In the first post Chimera is dispelling a fallacy that was perpetuated in Robert Connel Clarke's Maijuana Botony, which a lot of self taught breeders like Soul from Brothers Grimm believed.

He thought that crossing the Princess clone with a Super Skunk father and backcrossing to Princess with subsequent male offspring would replace the Super Skunk genes with Princess' genes based on mathematical ratios. Not a legitimate use of backcrossing as Chimera pointed out, because the genes do not conform to the laws of mathematics when they combine, they conform to the laws of Genetics.

In the second post he is illustrating a legitimate use for backcrossing. How to introduce and fix a single desired trait from one plant into the offspring of a plant that does not have that trait. A genetic tweak as it were.

It is good stuff. Thx Chimera. Forgive me if I over-simplified.

 

[Hydrobaby]

What exactly is the standard definition of a stabilized cannabis strain?