Deficiency or something worse at hand?

[Lockebox]

So basically I have a plant with issues starting.

I thought it was calcium, magnesium, and phosphorus deficiency. It may still be, but I'm also concerned about leaf spot septoria?

I did a recent top dress of Epsom salt and gypsum on 4/30 when i noticed the issue and assumed deficiency. Also did an npk & castings topdress on 4/22

The plant is like 60 days from seed, popped under 12/12. Growing in:
- happy frog soil
-nutrients: gaia green, worm castings, epsom salt, gypsum.
Temp/rh- 75⁰ lights off 86⁰ish lights on.
Rh constant around 50%
Water - tap adjusted to 6.7ish ph

Had a huge humidity spike about 4 weeks ago before installing dehumidifier in room. (80% in tents)

Here's pics, issues seem to start half way up plant and seem more prominent under highly lit areas. Lights have been raised and intensities have been lowered

 

[SchwiftyGrower]

I’m leaning towards calcium deficiency over septoria but that’s just my 2 cents. I don’t have experience on either other than reading and looking at examples. I wish the best man, it’s always worrying when something isn’t right.

I know on my Stardawgs when the light was too intense, it caused a cal deficiency and reducing the intensity and keeping the normal balanced feeding it helped big time!

 

[bigbagofbuds]

I advised Lockebox to get a second opinion as I have also never dealt with Septoria. The only reason I have to doubt a deficiency is how round these spots are, and the knowledge that humidity had been very high in the past for an extended period of time.

 

[BigBlonde]

I advised Lockebox to get a second opinion as I have also never dealt with Septoria. The only reason I have to doubt a deficiency is how round these spots are, and the knowledge that humidity had been very high in the past for an extended period of time.

Something I have been pondering is assessment of the pattern of leaf damage as a diagnostic tool. My observation and preliminary assumption are that deficiencies tend to appear evenly distributed, while pest damage distribution appears random, or perhaps biological. I'm generalizing, of course. Your mention of the roundness of the spots is why I mentioned the distribution. I haven't done any research. So, given that, I agree with your opinion. Then again, deficiencies weaken and stress a plant, thus making it less able to defend itself against pests.

 

[Lockebox]

Yeah @bigbagofbuds brings up a good point, I mentioned the 80% humidity spike in the original post.

I didn't mention though, they had been in the 60/70% Rh range for several weeks leading up to the spike.

High humidity and early bloom issues sound like they run hand and hand with septoria.

I saw y'all mention the topic before so I'll tag you guys, any help would be much appreciated!
@mysticepipedon @Aqua Man @GNick55

 

[GNick55]

mmmm might not be septoria.. you in veg or flower? can you post a canopy picture, looking down at plant from above?

 

[ev.dawgy]

Allow me to get all complicated, before I simplify some steps and try to give you a clearer picture of whats going on with your plant. I've dealt with this issue many times before, and it's always an issue where I add too many things into the feed at once. The brown spots happened to come out like that because of the humidity after feed. Once the humidty went down a bit, thats when the tips started to brown and get crunchy on you.

If anything this is a toxicity, which the plant seems to be handling on its own already.

You recently added some stuff to the plant, and this is now a couple weeks later. Things like this can happen when adding amendments into a pot mid growth.

The rate of epsom salts added can cause this type of damage to the leaves. High humidity usually helps prevent damage like this.

In the case there was water that transpired out the leaves and collected during the high humidity, then the lights, combines with any dissolved solids that make it throught the plant cause cause this type of damage.

Adding too much to the pot, primarily N can cause the soils to heat up and cause some damage to the roots, which then can cause damage like this and worse.

Check to make sure there are no warm spots in the soil. Put a finger into the soil and make sure the amendments you added are not breaking down causing the soil to become too hot (literal temperature of the soil).

Take a step back, reduce the amount of products you are using for the next week. Feed it only a light NPK at half strength when you see some yellowing at the top shoots indicating a feed is necessary.

Watch how the plant reacts and if wether or not the leaf damage continues.

Try layering in your feeds at different times to prevent issues, for instance add worm castings by themselves, then maybe epsom salts a few days later, etc... Same goes for any NPK liquid fertilizer.

There could have been some chemical reactions in the soil that cause a lockup or a toxicity (short term).

In my experience the leaves do not get crunchy and dry like that when there is a deficiency, so this is definitly not one or something I would treat as one.

The rest of the plant looks nice, and healthy growths all over. Do not pluck the damaged leaves until they are very damaged, this can remain a buffer for the damage that is occuring to your plant, and you want to be able to see if something is wrong ahead of time (weeks).

TL:DR: Take a step back, use only 1 product at a time even though it can be an inconvenience, water, assess after a day or 2, then feed half strength NPK fertilizer, assess for a couple days, repeat until the issue has resolved.

You don't need everything and the kitchen sink here to deal with this, it just seems you added multiple things at once, and there was some sort of reaction in the soils that cause some damage to the roots, which then translated to damage leaves.

Respect, hope this helps, i'll watch this one to see how it progresses with you. Ignore the low post count.

Protect those buds!!!

 

[mysticepipedon]

Allow me to get all complicated, before i simplify some steps and try to give you a clearer picture of whats going on with your plant. I've dealt with this issue many times before, and it's always an issue where I add too many things into the feed at once.

You recently added some stuff to the plant, and this is now a couple weeks later. Things like this can happen when adding amendments into a pot mid growth.

The rate of epsom salts added can cause this type of damage to the leaves. High humidity usually helps prevent damage like this.

In the case there was water that transpired out the leaves and collected during the high humidity, then the lights, combines with any dissolved solids that make it throught the plant cause cause this type of damage.

Adding too much to the pot, primarily N can cause the soils to heat up and cause some damage to the roots, which then can cause damage like this and worse.

Check to make sure there are no warm spots in the soil. Put a finger into the soil and make sure the amendments you added are not breaking down causing the soil to become too hot (literal temperature of the soil).

Take a step back, reduce the amount of products you are using for the next week. Feed it only a light NPK at half strength when you see some yellowing at the top shoots indicating a feed is necessary.

Watch how the plant reacts and if wether or not the leaf damage continues.

Try layering in you feeds at different times to prevent issues, for instance add worm castings by themselves, then maybe epsom salts a few days later, etc... Same goes for any NPK liquid fertilizer.

There could have been some chemical reactions in the soil that cause a lockup or a toxicity (short term).

In my experience the leaves do not get crunchy and dry like that when there is a deficiency, so this is definitly not one or something I would treat as one.

The rest of the plant looks nice, and healthy growths all over. Do not pluck the damaged leaves until they are very damaged, this can remain a buffer for the damage that is occuring to your plant, and you want to be able to see if something is wrong ahead of time (weeks).

TL:DR: Take a step back, use only 1 product at a time even though it can be an inconvenience, water, assess after a day or 2, then feed half strength NPK fertilizer, assess for a couple days, repeat until the issue has resolved.

You don't need everything and the kitchen sink here to deal with this, it just seems you added multiple things at once, and there was some sort of reaction in the soils that cause some damage to the roots, which then translated to damage leaves.

Respect, hope this helps, i'll watch this one to see how it progresses with you. Ignore the low post count.

Welcome to THC Farmer.

 

[bigbagofbuds]

It is possible its a burn, given the genetics. The other plant that didn't make it looked like it was burning vs this plant was healthier.

From my discussion with Lockebox this is a plant started at 12/12 from seed which is an almost pure or pure sativa hybrid from mixed landrace genetics.

Some of the leaves do look like they could be burnt or locked out. But the round spots is something Ive never seen. In my experiences burns start at the tips and deficiencies usually are interveinal at first before complete necrosis.

The higher light intensity prior to turning the lights down could have been driving magnesium and calcium consumption as they are LEDs which I have personally seen before.

I have personal experience with burns/lockout on pure sativa hybrids which does display as the crunchy leaves with tips turning up. But I haven't seen the circular spots or experience with high humidity.

 

[TomH]

In that first top dress, the combination of Epsom salts and gypsum provides a pretty decent load of sulfur, any chance that sulfur has something or somethings locked out?

 

[ev.dawgy]

In that first top dress, the combination of Epsom salts and gypsum provides a pretty decent load of sulfur, any chance that sulfur has something or somethings locked out?

That is a lot of sulfer.

The brown spotting seems like some sort of storm that has passed. Water, assess and see if the brown spots stop. Then continue with usual feed but without the sulfer products, or taper then back a bit and press on.

I don't think we are dealing with some plant disease or anything like that.

 

[Lockebox]

mmmm might not be septoria.. you in veg or flower? can you post a canopy picture, looking down at plant from above?

Sure thing I'll get a pic from above later tonight!

And I want to say they're beginning to flower or at least getting close to it. Like BigBagofBuds mentioned for me this is an almost pure sativa hybrid started 12/12 seed so I'm not exactly sure to be honest.

 

[Lockebox]

In that first top dress, the combination of Epsom salts and gypsum provides a pretty decent load of sulfur, any chance that sulfur has something or somethings locked out?

I've never looked at it that way, good point! I will say though, I use this combination pretty often or at least have for for a little while and learned it from others who seem to have good success rates with it.

I can recognize the chemistry of every plant and pot being different though, especially on a sativa genetic like this one.

 

[Lockebox]

Heres some more pics of the plant, nothing new jumped out at me tonight.

Removed the badly damaged leafs as well as the mystery spot leafs after taking pics.

 

[ev.dawgy]

You are in good shape. The issue was a temporary one. If the issue was still ongoing then you would see more damage by now.

Good luck with the rest of the grow.

 

[bigbagofbuds]

I agree with a wait and see from here, just take good notes and move slowly. The environment is fixed, anything nutrient related is moving slowly at worst, better to make few changes than to try everything at once.

 

[Lockebox]

Awesome y'all I really appreciate all the feedback!
I will take it from here slowly and do like y'all are saying, observe take notes and learn.

I told BigBagofBuds this already, but I'm planning on transplanting that plant into a 15 gallon pot soon. Straight happy frog soil no additional amendments seem to be the consensus on it

 

[ev.dawgy]

A larger pot should help foolproof your upcoming harvest, and reduce any issues. Less tinkering and mixing feeds etc... slow and steady, let's get it!!!

I'm going to follow you and see how the grow turns out.

Have a good day man, I'm lighting one up rn in you honor!

 

[Lockebox]

Thread 'PNG Kash started 12/12 from seed' https://www.thcfarmer.com/threads/png-kash-started-12-12-from-seed.147830/

Hey y'all I've been documenting those plants in this thread, I deviated away for the issues but I'm back to updating it. You can follow along if you want to see how this plant plays out