Defoiliating During Flowering

[gravekat303]

Note the tight internode spacing and solid nugs all the way down . it doesn't work for all plants but for a lot it does if I don't strip that cut yields shit vs when I do im not talking a few grams im talking ounce plus

 

[ShroomKing]

Personally, I strip mine slowly between weeks 1-3 of flower.

 

[ShroomKing]

so its it true that the bottom of a leaf does not take in light so no point in under lighting?

Technically, light can pass through most cannabis leaves, undoubtedly some strains leaf thickness or dark color may inhibit it a little. Cloroplasts in the plant leaf absorb light from any angle and convert it to energy. Therefore, lighting 'from any angle' would be beneficial to cannabis.

 

[ShroomKing]

Again, more empirical observation and not science, but that's cool. That's what you guys teach here on thcfarmer?

I hate to burst your intelligence bubble, but empirical evidence, through observation and experienced experimentation , which your referencing, is science.

 

[gravekat303]

Again, more empirical observation and not science, but that's cool. That's what you guys teach here on thcfarmer?

Yea what he said ! Lol im not the most well spoken person out there but I have made enough mistakes while experimenting to know what works I may not know why but after many experiments and many failures I can now say I know what works for me

 

[One drop]

Technically, light can pass through most cannabis leaves, undoubtedly some strains leaf thickness or dark color may inhibit it a little. Cloroplasts in the plant leaf absorb light from any angle and convert it to energy. Therefore, lighting 'from any angle' would be beneficial to cannabis.

Cool I left a little more on mine but hey it's my second indoor outing I'll be a bit more heavy handed on this next crop . Cheers for the info guys .

 

[dan1989]

The evidence says people have taken leaves off at all stages and the cannabis plants are fine. If the argument is whether you should or not, it would seem the science says no. I would agree 100% with Dumme on that. But if the argument is if you could or not, fact wins every day. It's theory that you shouldn't remove them. The reality is you can. What more is there to be said?

 

[dan1989]

The evidence says people have taken leaves off at all stages and the cannabis plants are fine. If the argument is whether you should or not, it would seem the science says no. I would agree 100% with Dumme on that. But if the argument is if you could or not, fact wins every day. It's theory that you shouldn't remove them. The reality is you can. What more is there to be said?

Btw hate how I've grown these I'm trying a 6 plant SOG if I don't end up getting rid of this damn box

 

[dan1989]

Yea what he said im not the most well spoken person out there but I have made enough mistakes while experimenting to know what works I may not know why but after many experiments and many failures I can now say I know what works for me

Yeah I read the best cannabis growing books out there it didn't mean shit until I started actually growing.

 

[ShroomKing]

True, but thats like saying the sky "is" blue because we all see it that colour. Obviously its not really blue, as it just looks blue. If you stop at emperical observation, the science doesn't hold its value.

That goes along with social conformities. "We do it this way. Why? Because that's the way it's done, and I saw the other guy doing it, and it looked right."

It's also called a scientific thesis, not fact.

@gravecat303, @ShroomKing, @Seamaiden
If you guys are teaching defoliation as fact, that's fine and dandy, but I'd rather know now before I invest all my time into learning things here.

Your rounding the newbie learning curve.....

.........Meanwhile............. the pros are crushing it with hardly a fan leaf in site.

Photo credit: jungleboysfanpage , Instagram

 

[ShroomKing]

I really can't tell if you're trying to insult me or not, but the sarcasm is pouring out of my phone right now.

If youre trying to teach, you're failing. I thought you were here to help people grow and understand?

Sarcasm was intended.
But,
No, I'm here to learn.
I never claimed to be anybodys teacher.
I throw my opinion out there a lot and I share what I've learned.
If you don't like it maybe a public forum isn't for you or there is an ignore feature you can use.
You're much more interested in the argument then you are the content of what people are trying to share.

 

[ShroomKing]

And to this I apologize to the OP, but its information I think everyone can benefit from...

Hmm, ok, a staff member of a grow forum, that is not here to teach growing. Ok thats cool, just never heard of that before.

So your saying, in the capacity of a staff member, that Im able to ignore staff members? Is that correct?

I'm a farmer, not a teacher. As a staff member my self defined duties are to moderate the content of threads. Personally, I usually only moderate when personal attacks, or insults start to fly. And occasionally, I digress, and participate in the insults. I'm only human.

As far as for you as a member to be able to ignore me as a staff member, I don't know. Unfortunately as a staff member I will also be unable to assist you with technical issues dealing with site template or functionality.

 

[One drop]

Cool I left a little more on mine but hey it's my second indoor outing I'll be a bit more heavy handed on this next crop . Cheers for the info guys .

I'm a farmer, not a teacher. As a staff member my self defined duties are to moderate the content of threads. Personally, I usually only moderate when personal attacks, or insults start to fly. And occasionally, I digress, and participate in the insults. I'm only human.

As far as for you as a member to be able to ignore me as a staff member, I don't know. Unfortunately as a staff member I will also be unable to assist you with technical issues dealing with site template or functionality.

we are all students of life and this is just part of life how and what path we take and we can all learn from one another and draw on the experiences each outher can bring to the tables ego free ....

 

[gravekat303]

I'm a farmer, not a teacher. As a staff member my self defined duties are to moderate the content of threads. Personally, I usually only moderate when personal attacks, or insults start to fly. And occasionally, I digress, and participate in the insults. I'm only human.

As far as for you as a member to be able to ignore me as a staff member, I don't know. Unfortunately as a staff member I will also be unable to assist you with technical issues dealing with site template or functionality.

Man my country ass don't get this guy at all seems like greyareas extra douchy brother who just wants to fight atleast Grey is nice loll fuck it im out ima go defan and water my crappy grow that doesn't work and only produces a couple pounds per light . also I noticed more saliva plants like jack really hate defaning

 

[ShroomKing]

I don't mind if you don't help as you said yourself you don't claim to be a teacher.

So will I be breaking some site policy if I attempted blocking a staff member?

...and it goes without saying that calling me a burger flipper is completely acceptable form of insulting, as per the site..

I'm sorry I called you a newbie , obviously that was an insult for which I regret.
And for the record,
I'm the one who deleted the burger flipping insults thrown at you, before this conversation even started.

I do hope that the ignore feature works for you though. And I hope that you find the search feature useful for any information on growing that you're looking for. You're here arguing about defoliation when you already defoliate your own grow room to some extent. Seems a bit off to me.
Best of luck.
Peace

 

[dan1989]

And to this I apologize to the OP, but its information I think everyone can benefit from...

Hmm, ok, a staff member of a grow forum, that is not here to teach growing. Ok thats cool, just never heard of that before.

So your saying, in the capacity of a staff member, that Im able to ignore staff members? Is that correct?

Did you actually look at the picture he just put up of the gigantic buds with no fan leaves? All respect to Shroomking he handled it with grace and dignity. I however will go straight ahead and say that if you took your head out your ass and paid attention to what these people are telling you, you might learn something. Worked for me!

 

[rmoltis]

Just so I understand your post, you suggest removing the larger leaves on top, the one that can handle large/high amounts of light density, the ones that produce the most G3P, and have the most chlorophyll, and cut them right off so the smaller, underdeveloped leaves below can grow more and perhaps replace the ones you just cut off, and somehow that makes the yield increase? Is that what you're saying?

If you Reference my defoliation pics.
The top 3 fan leaves all stay on each top where most light is received. but every fanleaf all the way down is removed.

The new budsites leaves (sugar leaves) fill in to make up for the missing fan leaves. Science has already shown most nutrients are delivered locally near where the leaf connects to the plant.

So having the sugar leaves fill in to replace the nutrient storage leaves (fan leaves). Creates a redistribution of created energy.

The fan leaves once connecting to the base of the node. Are replaced with leaves connected directly to the buds that fill in. Now all the stuff created by the leaves processing the light can now be delivered more directly into the buds.

My opinion.
I didn't say increase of yield.
I said delivering the good stuff directly where you need it.

Once you defoliate the fans in flower. The leaves at the flower sites enlarge. Delivering the good stuff directly where you need it, in the flowers.

But in my pictures I did say
"I have noticed it makes quite a difference in yield and quality of lower flower sites. Personal opinion."

Saying "I noticed a difference in yield & quality" is an open ended statement. It could mean less or more. My statements are usually very straight forward.

 

[Seamaiden]

As far as I'm aware no , let's ask @Seamaiden see if she can shed some light on the subject.

With specific regard to the question posed that you quoted, to me it makes exactly zero sense that the plant would spend energy growing something that's useless. Where does photosynthesis occur? To the best of my knowledge, leaves. Therefore it makes no sense to me that a leaf, simply due to its location on the plant, wouldn't be providing some benefit.

If you guys are teaching defoliation as fact, that's fine and dandy, but I'd rather know now before I invest all my time into learning things here.

Please don't include me in this group. I do not advocate harsh defoliation. I have endeavored to make my own stance known.

What you won't find from me ANYWHERE is dickswinging. I am not going to sit here and insist that mine is the biggest, the best, etc. I simply endeavor to help people do their own thing to the best of their ability. That's it. My goal is to diminish the presence of bro-science, and in this instance, in my humble opinion, since I've seen exactly zero other farmers engage in this practice, its utility is dubious at best.

Now, removing poor bud sites? That's a PROVEN method for improving overall fruit/flower quality. In date farming and orchard production. I am happy to link to some resources, although with regard to removing bad fruit from stonefruit trees, I was taught when I was a kid how to do it, and then it became my job/chore. I'd have to do some digging to find other references, but the primer on Dateland's site is pretty good.

 

[gravekat303]

I kept checking to see if it was hidden and sadly was disappointed when I saw it wasn't, until much later.

Perhaps I was unclear where I stand when defining terms. Cannabis is just now becoming mainstream, and as far as I can tell, its still too new for any real industry terms to stick. I default and follow google's definition of defoliation, and not to be confused with "trimming" or "pruning" (lollipoping).

de·fo·li·ate
dēˈfōlēˌāt/
verb
verb: defoliate; 3rd person present: defoliates; past tense: defoliated; past participle: defoliated; gerund or present participle: defoliating

1. 
   
   remove leaves from (a tree, plant, or area of land), for agricultural purposes or as a military tactic.
   "the area was defoliated and napalmed many times"

Origin
View attachment 665152
late 18th century: from late Latin defoliat- ‘stripped of leaves,’ from the verb defoliare, from de- (expressing removal) + folium ‘leaf.’

I defer to this definition because its, not only accepted by the horticulture and agriculture groups for it, but the world as well. I dont do this in my garden... or Schawzzing, or what ever you guys want to call it.

Lollipopping is a pruning technique which creates an attractive “lollipop” shape while concentrating each plant's energy into its upper, bud producing branches.

I lollipop my ladies while in Veg. I do this for multiple reasons; first and formost because I cant bend over as I have back issues, but more over and as listed in the very first video I posted on this thread, for re-distribution of remaining nutrients with in the plant (and the answer to the threads OP question). Lollipopping is "Pruning", and not just the leaves, but all the undergrowth that may use more nutrients, than give, during flower.



It's empirical observation and nothing more. Unfortunately, I really don't think I can learn anything from these Mod's other than Seamaiden perhaps. She seems to know how to treat members and situations with finesse, whether in agreement or not.



Adult leaf location would only be important in its relationship to light intensity (distance from it). The more light (photons) the more photosynthesis. Adult leaves use very little nutrients, but younger, undeveloped leaves, such as the ones farther from the light source and lower growth on the plant, with continue to use remaining nutrients. To me, it makes no sense to chop mature leaves for deeper light penetration of leaves that will take more from the nutrient pool, than give.

I completely agree about removing poor bud sites, as per what I've been saying.



I don't, truely, but I wanted you to know what was going on.

I don't get why people think moods are masters or have some amazing powers when in reality we are spam killers . my bad if I offended you if you want straight "science " and not peoples opinions I would hit up @lino or @squigg
If they are still here those vatos make my country brain hurt but know what's up

 

[dan1989]

I'll settle for simple politeness, or even a Mod that follows the rules the site calls for. I've never been of a site that a Mod says a members is being "Douchie", and its accepted as ok.

What are you growing at the minute?