Defol Bs Or ...?

[Hazehunta420]

It's purple haze picked them up in Amsterdam somewhere, it was all good till it had a nitro overdose. Trimmed away the useless leaves and it picked up healthy but still produced dem sacs in just the one site . My next grow I'm changing strains but purple is my top daily toke so I'd like to keep some babies safe somewhere

 

[PhatNuggz]

I defoliate like that even when I staked under 3x600. Larf takes up needed plant energy to grow "garbage" below vs big buds up top. I only keep strains that my patients and I deem worthy.

Every spot under my main lights is worth 1100.00. If a strain can't meet that demand (200/oz =5.5oz min), it gets booted to side lighting only.

Removing the lower buds to provide 'more' food for upper buds makes no sense to me. First, they tend to be much smaller= much less food needed, but in the end can be used for cooking, making butter, bartering, and of course smoking.

Here's my current grow ~ 30" below the light taken 2/23. I trained the branches to grow parallel along the cube bars. Probably wind up with an extra 1/4. Does it appear that keeping it has affected upper bud/cola growth (pic date 3/2)?

 

[DemonTrich]

If you remove a part of the plant that doesn't need to put its energy to grow (ie lower buds), the plant can use it energy to grow the tops vs the lower stuff. It makes perfect logical and scientific sense to me.

Think of it like car racing and unsprung weight. If you put light weight wheels, remove car weight, you just made your car slightly faster during to less unsprung weight it has to move the vehicle. The car weighs less (removing lower bud sites), thus the same car power will propelled the car faster. Same.principal with plants. If a plant doesn't have any lower garbage to spend it's energy growing, it can put all it energy into growing the top colas.

 

[PhatNuggz]

Garbage? LOL More like extra bud

 

[sixstring]

no healthy leaves were harmed in the making of this kush :cool:

or this kush lol

but yeah,if your lights suck that bad just pull all the leaf and grow tops :p

with that said pulling leaves and pruning off lower branches in VEG to shape the canopy to your grow style is fine.i think its silly as hell to strip leaves in flower,major un-needed stress and alot of times slows the plant to a crawl for a week or more,which in the end only hurts final weights on a properly lite up room. imo of course :facepalm:

 

[sixstring]

Grabbed a few pics of the lowers and soil level nugglets :)

These are from that 5 foot tall plant in the second pic of the post above this,tkbx2 #2 bout to come down.under weaksauce cob lighting maybe 30w per sq ft.cant link the video from my phone but the song that comes to mind is from montrose
Yer rock candy baby,hard sweet and sticky hahahaha

 

[DaKindBud]

you do whatever your plant is ok with, that is the one and only rule. Personally I defo in veg and flower depending on cultivar....and see great improvements from years ago. try, fail, try ,fail...at the end you succeed. Keep it irie bless

 

[PhatNuggz]

This is not how defoliation is supposed to be used. It is a technique to help bud up a dense room with many close plants. It is also to increase the airflow through the thick canopy. There is no point if the plants are not dense leaved and getting plenty of light like the 2 you show. In your case the plant with leaves would win. If they were actually the same plant so you could tell anything. Without identical clones. There is no actual side by side experiment.

Sorry. Techniques are used for reasons. The only place anyone even has this sort of argument is Internet forums. I feel strongly to not help propogate myths. Especially misguided forum myths.

I'll let my pics speak for themselves. Here's a hybrid with pics taken at fist pistils, then 20 days later, and, about a week ago. She has maybe 2 more weeks

 

[MIMedGrower]

I'll let my pics speak for themselves. Here's a hybrid with pics taken at fist pistils, then 20 days later, and, about a week ago. She has maybe 2 more weeks

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I am sorry I don't see that proves anything. Cutting anything off the plant reduces yield. It enough to stress it and you reduce quality as well.

Now if you are trying to only get big tops at the cost of overall yield cutting the lowers off will help with big tops.

Just like pruning a tomato plant for nice big sandwich tomatoes. You get less but larger tomatoes.

All of the techniques have an actual use. Not a blanket effect.

The more healthy leaves my plants have the better the yield and quality.

Just my experience and research talking.

I have done all these experiments in my perpetual. It's easy. I harvest and plant almost every week.

 

[The Terps]

Didn't you say that they were both seeds? You can't do a side by side without them being clones from the same plant otherwise you might see different traits reguardless. Secondly I have a hard time judging just one plant of each as one may be healthier get better dry down times ect... but thanks for sharing always something that I think about.

But let's also remember different strains do better when topped some left alone so I personally think there is more to it than just do "x" at "y" and "w" at "z"to get full potential in your system with your strain. But I don't have the answer either.

 

[PhatNuggz]

Didn't you say that they were both seeds? You can't do a side by side without them being clones from the same plant otherwise you might see different traits reguardless. Secondly I have a hard time judging just one plant of each as one may be healthier get better dry down times ect... but thanks for sharing always something that I think about.

But let's also remember different strains do better when topped some left alone so I personally think there is more to it than just do "x" at "y" and "w" at "z"to get full potential in your system with your strain. But I don't have the answer either.

Correct to a point. I have done side by sides with clones that grew out differently enough to skew results

The plant n the right that I defoled for this comparison had similarly large fans leafs, but, they had spider mites and had to come off. That gave me the idea to defol the rest of her

 

[PhatNuggz]

I am sorry I don't see that proves anything. Cutting anything off the plant reduces yield. It enough to stress it and you reduce quality as well.

Now if you are trying to only get big tops at the cost of overall yield cutting the lowers off will help with big tops.

Just like pruning a tomato plant for nice big sandwich tomatoes. You get less but larger tomatoes.

All of the techniques have an actual use. Not a blanket effect.

The more healthy leaves my plants have the better the yield and quality.

Just my experience and research talking.

I have done all these experiments in my perpetual. It's easy. I harvest and plant almost every week.

Look at the amount of small buds below the main cola canopy. I seriously doubt removing them would equate to that amount being added to the colas above. I assure you, they ae quite potent when harvested/dried

 

[MIMedGrower]

Look at the amount of small buds below the main cola canopy. I seriously doubt removing them would equate to that amount being added to the colas above. I assure you, they ae quite potent when harvested/dried

I did not say that. I said that the plant would make less overall but focus on top bud production.

And if you had more low leaves those low buds would stack and connect up the whole branch. The leaves collect light and cause the growth. Not the buds nearly as much.

and if the plant had mites it is already not a candidate for a test. It has been weakened.

This is a plant I harvested recently. I grow to keep as many leaves healthy as possible. I have done numerous side by sides in my old 4x4 tent.

Every time I cut anything off the plant it reduced the yield. And quality but that is a whole other discussion.

I was just trying to give an objective perspective.

I repeat. The plants were more potent with all of their leaves to the end as well as higher yielding.

 

[PhatNuggz]

You repeat your experience. I have a different opinion. I will continue to defol

 

[PhatNuggz]

So, here they are only 6 days later. The first 2 pics are the non-defoled plant. The second 2 the defoled. I took pics of both: full shots and lower bud sites. Has the defoled plant suffered, OR, are her buds actually a big bigger and fuller?

I tossed in one pic of my seemingly pure sat that was defoled.

 

[DaKindBud]

I'm curious as to why you think cutting anything off the plant reduces quality of said cultivar? That's silly.

 

[MIMedGrower]

I'm curious as to why you think cutting anything off the plant reduces quality of said cultivar? That's silly.

If you are asking me (can page a member by putting @ in front of user name) I said if you cut enough off to stress the plant it will reduce quality. Anything that hinders the life cycle reduces quality. Most horticultural guides say 15% trimmed or pruned is the max safe amount.

 

[PhatNuggz]

^^ And yet, if anything, my defoled buds are the same size, BUT, actually they are BIGGER.

Now I do keep the top 2 levels of fan leafs. Maybe that's the 'secret' as they are still being supported where they need it the most

 

[PhatNuggz]

Update: Pretty much the same as last photo, to say- both lower buds are very much the same size.

NOW, although the plant on the left has MORE leafs, it/they is by no means indica dom, meaning

this attempt to compare is a failure, but here's a pic of the undergrowth in the Diesel that I double defoled. I am within 7 days of harvesting. The upper 19"+ (pic 3) and yet the lower 19" could yield ~ 0.5-1.0 oz . Small growers will appreciate the extra bud

Thanks for watching/commenting. Hope to see you on my Hail Hydro thread

 

[PhatNuggz]

What I learned so far is defol works much better with indica dom strains

Here's dry weight from lower branches. Could/would remving them equate to more than this up top? I have serious doubts