Defoliation Side By Side - Bushy Plants

Kot · Dec 28, 2018

Sorry but this is far from defoliation and it won't prove anything.

1diesel1 · Dec 28, 2018

hyzerflip said:
You can watch a full grow in time lapse that used this technique...

Man, that gave me goosebumps!! Kudos bro for sharing that kick ass video!!!

1diesel1 · Dec 28, 2018

Kot said:
Sorry but this is far from defoliation and it won't prove anything.

Please explain your comment?

Jimster · Dec 28, 2018

I will selectively pick as few leaves as possible to allow light to reach growth points when possible, but I leave as much leaves as possible otherwise. The leaves are the source of the plant's energy. Getting rid of leaves decreases the plant's overall vigor...the more it's cut back the less energy it can make. Light also needs to hit the growing shoots, so a balance must be found where you cut the leaves out as needed to maximize the light hitting your growing points, while leaving enough leaves on to avoid stressing or weakening the plant. Keeping as much green on the plant is the best for supplying energy for growth and flowering. Expecting a plant to do well by removing most of it's leaves is like expecting a person to grow better and faster by feeding minimal nutrition. Its an urban legend that it is beneficial in any way.
On a side note, the yield from Black Diesel was OK, but it would be greater, I think, if it grew taller (it produced a shorter, bushy plant) and not as leafy. The high quantity of leaves made the yield a little lower than if it was a foot taller and had nice side growth. I picked a lot of leaves off to allow the light to hit as many growth points as possible, and this was the only thing that allowed a decent yield...otherwise it would be too bushy for a good indoor tent grow. IMHO only.

Jimster · Dec 28, 2018

FatManatee said:
At least it doesn't ruin the crop. Maybe I'll give it a shot in the future.

I would call what I saw in the video as pruning, not deforesting. It's a pretty good prune but it left a lot of green on the plants. The buds seem to grow well, but I think that the trade off is smaller buds overall, but more larger buds instead of the light starved lower buds. The strain has a lot to do with it as well...if it isn't bushy, there isn't as much a need to clear out as many leaves.

Ina · Dec 29, 2018

FatManatee said:
I ended up pruning three days earlier then expected (day 18 flower), as the stretch ended earlier then I expected, and the plants had shifted to full bud production.

In the attached pictures it may seem that I did not chop a lot of leaves, as there's so many to begin with! However I chopped a total of 82,9 grams, so nearly 30 grams per plant. Once the plants start maturing, I'm expecting the foliage to open up a little more as the weight of the buds will bend the stems. By the end, the plants should look much different from the control group.

The plants that were pruned are the three on the right side of the tent.
I'll keep you posted!

Strip them more!;)I think that's what people mean by shwazzing?He really didn't leave anything?!I am a fan of defoiliating,even hard defoliating but I'm not sure i would cut so much.....But the plants dont look bad few days after....Would you try that on one of yours?hehe By the way they look wonderful!

Monster762 · Dec 29, 2018

I just read up on this schwazzing
Honestly the video is nice but proves no method. No actual hands on. Too much like a commercial.

So why is everyone stuck on fan leaves being the power source of the plant?

I always thought the little leaves attatched to the buds were what mattered and big ones just blocked things.

On the defoliating subject

How late is too late to defoliate pretty heavily?
Would you all say 30 days in no later?
Is there a negative effect ?
Has anyone personally experienced negatives? from defoliating mid flower ( plant die, slowed a lot in growth or stalled in flower ?)

Monster762 · Dec 29, 2018

Monster762 said:
I just read up on this schwazzing
Honestly the video is nice but proves no method. No actual hands on. Too much like a commercial.

So why is everyone stuck on fan leaves being the power source of the plant?

I always thought the little leaves attatched to the buds were what mattered and big ones just blocked things.

On the defoliating subject

How late is too late to defoliate pretty heavily?
Would you all say 30 days in no later?
Is there a negative effect ?
Has anyone personally experienced negatives? from defoliating mid flower ( plant die, slowed a lot in growth or stalled in flower ?)

Plus buds not being bathed in light won’t build the same trich defenses to the light so overall be weaker.
So why not defoliate ? All the time once plant has set up

FatManatee · Dec 29, 2018

Monster762 said:
So why is everyone stuck on fan leaves being the power source of the plant?

Photosynthesis creates glucose, which is the energy source for bud production. Glucose can be moved by all leaves to the buds, obviously the sugar leaves closest to the buds will transport the most energy. To my knowledge, if the leaf doesn't get adequate light or CO2 to photosynthesize, it will draw energy from other leaves, thus being a strain on bud production.

None the less, if the fan leaves are blocking the bottom sugar leaves, it means that transporting glucose to the bottom buds will take a longer time, and energy will be wasted on transporting the glucose, thus the plants can't operate as efficiently. Think of it like importing tomatoes from abroad, you will need to use resources to fuel up the trucks that transport the tomatoes.

chemistry · Dec 29, 2018

Somebody needs to do a side by side and get this folklore busted once and for all.

Kot · Dec 29, 2018

1diesel1 said:
Please explain your comment?

Well if he wants to prove anything then there has to be big difference in how the two group of plants look. Removing 20 from 200 leaves won't prove anything. If he removes all the fan leaves then we can see if there is difference in the final crop.

London bud · Dec 29, 2018

Doing loads of research is only gonna help so much and everyone's opinions will be different because we all grow and create a plant in a slightly different fashion. When your the one nurturing a plant everyday your the only person who can really judge what that particular plant likes and doesnt.

3 balls · Dec 29, 2018

IMO, at the very least that video disproves the idea that thinning out the monster blockers is a catastrophic mistake, an opinion held by many in the Who is Plucking thread.

MIMedGrower · Dec 29, 2018

3 balls said:
IMO, at the very least that video disproves the idea that thinning out the monster blockers is a catastrophic mistake, an opinion held by many in the Who is Plucking thread.

Maybe when their book doesnt sell anymore they will revise their stance and the new book will be 4 a light. No defoliation needed.

:-)

3 balls · Dec 29, 2018

Ina said:
Strip them more!;)I think that's what people mean by shwazzing?He really didn't leave anything?!I am a fan of defoiliating,even hard defoliating but I'm not sure i would cut so much.....But the plants dont look bad few days after....Would you try that on one of yours?hehe By the way they look wonderful!

I'm wondering if you're a fan of this Grand Master Level guy in the video? I found some content on youtube, he has some interesting things to say. Do you follow him regularly?

Ina · Dec 29, 2018

No,i was looking for that schwazzing thing and found that clip.But yes, it looks like he knows what he is doing and why.Plants were also really nice and healthy before the procedure when they were bushy,dont seem so stressed after that hard defoliation.....

hawkman · Dec 31, 2018

1diesel1 said:
I typically def in beginning of week 5 before heavy co2 consumption.

that does make sense - in week 5-6 the buds start fattening and so goes it "More Light = Bigger Buds" and at that point the fan leaves have do their job

Glow · Jan 3, 2019

I think you will find a large amount of the large Med grows (e.g. Jungle Boys) defoliate plants to maximise crop production and make harvests (trimming) a bit easier. Traditionally defoliating has been criticised because photosynthesis occurs in the leaves (i.e. rubisco catalyzes CO2, sugars are created etc) and the leaves transpire drawing in water and nutrients. The thing though is that what science has found is that when plants are defoliated compensatory photosynthesis occurs along with an increase in reproductive efficiency. So effectively at this point the science supports defoliation under some circumstances in some crops (e.g. Okra, Tomato) - although it is early days and I expect more studies will occur over time. As for the Three a Light Book I seriously wouldn't use this technique. It may work with some genetics but certainly not with others and there are a bunch of factors that need to be considered before completely stripping a plant of leaves preflower. Either the author didn't understand this or he didn't care to mention it because let's face it its a full on hype marketing sham. Defoliation though offers one very major benefit in that more plants can be in a given area without competing for light because the canopy isn't so much in the equation. Also obviously better light penetration and better airflow. I think over time in fact defoliation may become a standard with more advanced growers - particularly where heavy canopy genetics are concerned.

Kot · Jan 3, 2019

Glow said:
I think you will find a large amount of the large Med grows (e.g. Jungle Boys) defoliate plants

I think they do not defoliate but practice the "One Node Flip" method. Their plants have 16 tips and are so tall when they flip them that it would be stupid if they don't remove some of the lower nodes. After that I don't think they defoliate.

hawkman · Jan 3, 2019

Glow said:
I think you will find a large amount of the large Med grows (e.g. Jungle Boys) defoliate plants to maximise crop production and make harvests (trimming) a bit easier. Traditionally defoliating has been criticised because photosynthesis occurs in the leaves (i.e. rubisco catalyzes CO2, sugars are created etc) and the leaves transpire drawing in water and nutrients. The thing though is that what science has found is that when plants are defoliated compensatory photosynthesis occurs along with an increase in reproductive efficiency. So effectively at this point the science supports defoliation under some circumstances in some crops (e.g. Okra, Tomato) - although it is early days and I expect more studies will occur over time. As for the Three a Light Book I seriously wouldn't use this technique. It may work with some genetics but certainly not with others and there are a bunch of factors that need to be considered before completely stripping a plant of leaves preflower. Either the author didn't understand this or he didn't care to mention it because let's face it its a full on hype marketing sham. Defoliation though offers one very major benefit in that more plants can be in a given area without competing for light because the canopy isn't so much in the equation. Also obviously better light penetration and better airflow. I think over time in fact defoliation may become a standard with more advanced growers - particularly where heavy canopy genetics are concerned.

Never like defoliation in transition stage , seems if would/will hurt the plant to much stress, ect specialy in pre-flower maybe thinking likr this : removing all fan leaves stressing the plan to make more bud sites ? any way not for me. LI do like to remove all fan leaves 3 days before harvest , have also removed fan leaves 2 weeks before harvest to aid in "drying" the plant out . Seems that buds really fatten up. Contacted Jungle Boys about seeds ? help ? (do they sell seeds) ( looked at Alien and found a few of their seeds cost $300.00 for 16 seeds They) have one of the top strains in the La area

Defoliation Side By Side - Bushy Plants

Defoliation Side By Side - Bushy Plants

Kot

1diesel1

1diesel1

Jimster

Jimster

Ina

Monster762

Monster762

FatManatee

chemistry

Kot

London bud

3 balls

MIMedGrower

3 balls

Ina

hawkman

Glow

Kot

hawkman

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