degradation of strain from repeated cloning?

[supercharged]

hey farmers wats up, i got into a little discussion about the use of mothers an why u shudnt preserve the strain by taking a fresh cut an discarding the plant the cut was taken from with a friend of mine.
now i explained that this is wat i do, my whitefires r around 4th generation an i havent reali noticed to much difference. as long as i flush for atleast2weeks and dry/cure them properly then they taste just as amazing, even more so my latest round because i improved ma dryin techniques.
now my friend i was discussin this with has a degree in bio chemistry so he knows a little about it.

wats all your views on the subject?
i know sum people keep mothers cause its convenient to take as many as u like but is there another reason than this?

peace, super c

 

[GanjaAL]

Having taken Chem, biology and other science classes... I just do not see it happening. It is an exact genetic replica of the mother plant. I am a creationist but from a premordial soup perspective... you may see a change billions of years from now which to be honest will not matter in our life time.

 

[osidecannabis]

i think what happens most of the time, like in my case, an old mother plant starts to degrade with age because of user care.

 

[mrdizzle]

I no doubt watched my bubba decline after about 2yrs and probably 5-6 generations of new moms, she lost her glory

 

[supercharged]

Having taken Chem, biology and other science classes... I just do not see it happening. It is an exact genetic replica of the mother plant. I am a creationist but from a premordial soup perspective... you may see a change billions of years from now which to be honest will not matter in our life time.

i can c wat u mean bro, this is my kinda perspective of it really.
try an think about things scientifically

i think what happens most of the time, like in my case, an old mother plant starts to degrade with age because of user care.

if ganjaAL is correct then this shud not matter shud it?
i know they can herm from stressing but not degrade the actual dna of the plant?

I no doubt watched my bubba decline after about 2yrs and probably 5-6 generations of new moms, she lost her glory

and this wasnt down to your error? wat i mean is did u stress her a lot in each generation?

thanks for the replies peeps

 

[Tobor the 8th Man]

I don't think taking a cutting of a plant is technically cloning. In high school I used to work summers being a grunt in a greenhouse. I pinched poinsettias as they grew from cuttings they would get. They would get 1000's of cuttings and kept them in a refrigerator. Then at some point they would stick them in trays with whatever they used to root. Then we would transplant them, then they get pinched to branch. Then they would transplant. This would go on for quite a while until they had 10 bug greenhouse filled with poinsettias. Then we would slide them in cone shaped bags and put them in boxes and load them on trucks to be sent to various retailers. I would be well tanned and in very good shape at the end of the summer because it was harder work than you think. By the way pinching poinsettias with their milky sap is way messier and stickier than trimming cannabis.

Anyways they never called it cloning. To me biological cloning is replicating something from a cell or two. Then you could probably have genetic fading.

We are just rooting cuttings. It is the exact same plant from what it was cut off of but technically I don't think it is a clone. Genetics can't fade because they are already there because it is the same plant.

 

[GanjaAL]

Bravo... very nicely said Tobor the 8th Man!

 

[MTM]

most drift comes from stress in my opinion but after time some strains do get a little weaker in strength and taste

 

[mrdizzle]

and this wasnt down to your error? wat i mean is did u stress her a lot in each generation?

thanks for the replies peeps

there was no stress, new moms every 2runs, strain lost some bling and some strenght after 2yrs

 

[convex]

I no doubt watched my bubba decline after about 2yrs and probably 5-6 generations of new moms, she lost her glory

I've experienced the same with a number of strains.

Always attributed it to the fact that it is an herb ... natural cycle is to grow, flower, fruit and die in one season. A couple of years is a long time to an herb.

Cheers

 

[ncga]

IMHO

It's best to keep a mom and take clones off of that plant. When you take a clone from a clone from a clone...... you start to get some drift. Viruses develop and before long all vigor is gone. Some strains it takes many generations over several years others it happens fast.


Best to keep a mom going as long as you can. OT1 noticed this and is why he worked so hard to keep original bonzi moms


nc

 

[LONG_BUD]

I've started having problems with space, and I now keep my moms as bonzi's. I just keep topping them to a certain hight and, trim the roots every month and a half or so...

Now I find it easier to keep the plants small, and there is never any dead root mass in the pot.

 

[MakinGoo]

I say it's bullshit the plant stays the same yr after yr.. I'll bet u guys 1,000$ that were not gettin cuts straight from the moms.. We prolly get our cuts from a mom then 2 somebody els then 2 another person then 2 another person. By the time that cut makes it 2 the club it's been cut a grip of times & prolly not from the OG mom prolly from a clone from a clone many times then we get the cut from the shop & it's still Fire.. If the cuts degrade then all of the elite rare strains would b bunk.. But u people can believe what ever u want.. But MakinGoo says it's bullshit I'll take a clone from a clone anyday..I've been doing it 4 years I never keep moms.. I live in Cali we got plant counts over here.. Every plant needs 2 produce I don't have space juss 2 keep a mom.. I cut clones rite b4 flower.. Clone from a clone over here & always mega Fire..

 

[Venom818]

my boy doesnt even keep moms just takes cuts from cuts havent seen a difference im on my third tahoe mom still as dank as the first

 

[hedster44]

I'm with making goo on this one. If this was true how would elite clone only strains stay fire?

 

[CelticEBE]

I don't think things actually degrade, but they take on the characteristics of the Mom they were taken from for sure. Here's an example.

I have a Raskals OG cut that I picked up last year. I topped this plant several times and each time I did I noticed the fan leaves would get a little smaller each as the plant got bushier and bushier. Eventually I took cuts from her and put her in flower. The cuts I have now seem to want to follow the bushy side of things with smaller fan leaves.

Now I could be wrong, but it's always been my understanding that the cut you are taking is an exact representation of it's mother plant in it's current state.

So if I would have taken cuts from my Raskals OG when I was topping it, I would still have those HUGE fan leaves.

Correct me if I'm wrong here peeps.

 

[supercharged]

I say it's bullshit the plant stays the same yr after yr.. I'll bet u guys 1,000$ that were not gettin cuts straight from the moms.. We prolly get our cuts from a mom then 2 somebody els then 2 another person then 2 another person. By the time that cut makes it 2 the club it's been cut a grip of times & prolly not from the OG mom prolly from a clone from a clone many times then we get the cut from the shop & it's still Fire.. If the cuts degrade then all of the elite rare strains would b bunk.. But u people can believe what ever u want.. But MakinGoo says it's bullshit I'll take a clone from a clone anyday..I've been doing it 4 years I never keep moms.. I live in Cali we got plant counts over here.. Every plant needs 2 produce I don't have space juss 2 keep a mom.. I cut clones rite b4 flower.. Clone from a clone over here & always mega Fire..

bro i dont disagree with u cause u have a very good point. ive never reali tried many clone onlys infact only urkle an that was fire!!!! but i had nothin to compare it2. i have never tried the original mother of urkle or even the first, second, third clone etc.
now if tobor is rite in wat he's sayin (and he's rarely wrong) then this reali shudnt matter cause every clone from that strain is an exact replica but im not1 2reali just go off wat im told. i like2find out for myself just2make sure how about we ask sum people who have made their own strains, kept original mothers maybe got passed back a later generation of clone (think thats2 much 2ask lol)

I don't think things actually degrade, but they take on the characteristics of the Mom they were taken from for sure. Here's an example.

I have a Raskals OG cut that I picked up last year. I topped this plant several times and each time I did I noticed the fan leaves would get a little smaller each as the plant got bushier and bushier. Eventually I took cuts from her and put her in flower. The cuts I have now seem to want to follow the bushy side of things with smaller fan leaves.

Now I could be wrong, but it's always been my understanding that the cut you are taking is an exact representation of it's mother plant in it's current state.

So if I would have taken cuts from my Raskals OG when I was topping it, I would still have those HUGE fan leaves.

Correct me if I'm wrong here peeps.

bro u just made me have a think about my white bubba and hows it changed cause of re-vegging twice and being topped several times at different stages of veg and flower. the leaves have difinately got smaller, i will check them again next run with her (im running a lot more of her this round) but i remember the first time i ran her they were fookin massive!!!
how can it b an exact copy if these changes have occured?


peace, sc

 

[UCtestn]

One of my producers is going down hill. I'm not attributing it to the clone of a clone of a clone degradation, but rather to a possible virus it has. I'll be looking at my BD or Jilly Bean to replace it soon.

 

[Seamaiden]

IMHO

It's best to keep a mom and take clones off of that plant. When you take a clone from a clone from a clone...... you start to get some drift. Viruses develop and before long all vigor is gone. Some strains it takes many generations over several years others it happens fast.


Best to keep a mom going as long as you can. OT1 noticed this and is why he worked so hard to keep original bonzi moms


nc

I really wish this weren't so, NC. Cuts me to the quick, not to mention making life that much more difficult keeping an annual as a perennial.

Folks, NC's got a few years of growing and breeding under his belt. My own suggestion is to never dismiss what he's got to say. Ever. I've never once heard him speak from any place other than direct experience.

4yrs experience compared to well over 20... hmm... who am I gonna listen to? Oh yeah, the man I can get the face-to-face with. :)

 

[altitudefarmer]

I agree with ncga and Seamaiden; I have tried both methods, and I keep my moms as long as possible now, and I prefer to keep moms from seed, if I can. I was running my blueberry for the last couple years using the rotation method (bloom the mom as soon as the clone roots), and I must have stressed her or something- she's not producing like she used to. Grrr... This is not the first time I've done this to a strain, but I hope it's the last. MAD props to breeders who've kept moms 10+ years... I have a tendency to lose control of them around 18 months, so I just try to rotate them as little as possible.
It's been a little tricky for me over the years to keep them fed enough to stay healthy, but not so much I have to cut 'em every other day... haha
If any breeders want to drop some tips on keeping moms, I wouldn't hate to read them.
Peace