Discussion about Hydrogaurd.

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Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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I thought i would make a post that might save some hydro growers some money and provide some information on the product to the best of my knowledge.

Hydrogaurd contains a bateria called bacillus amyloliquefacien. This bacteria acts as a fungicide and antibiotic for the plants. In fact this particular species has been studied in agriculture for its ability to kill plants cells infected with fungus

These Bacteria need food, oxygen and basically surface area or a home per se and will compete life and death for it. They produce enzymes that help make nutrients more available to plants like several other bacteria species do. So after inoculation all we need to do is keep them thriving.

People in aquaponic and aquatics know very well and understand the benefits of beneficial bacteria. If you pop in some advanced fish keeping, planted tank, aquaponics sites you will see a wealth of information on it (in hydro this has not seem to have yet caught on, the dirt guys most likely understand all of this). Things like pythium generally are rarely seen in these systems once beneficial bacteria are established in comparison to hydroponics. Typically we do whats called a cycle in our systems (referring to the nitrogen cycle) it usually takes 4-6 weeks (you can google it to get an understanding if you like). How we get around that time frame is to inoculate new tanks with bacteria from another established tank (called seeding) or inoculating by taking a filter from an established system and putting it on the new one so that a good sized starting culture of bacteria can colinate relatively quickly (days not weeks). Adding hydrogaurd is the same thing.

These bacteria grow on any surface area in constant contact with your water including your roots and will provide a symbiotic relationship with your plants. They provide a kind of protective layer that protects the roots. The plant in turn secretes sugars and amino's from the roots to feed the bacteria that are protecting them from disease, fungus and other bacteria. In the process of consuming this food they produce enzymes that help break down nutrients into smaller molecules thats are easier to uptake by the plants.

So how do we keep them alive and happy after they are established... we need to change the way we perform certain tasks like water changes and be very mind full of the changes we make and how it will affect these bacteria.

If you change out all of your res water at once you are severely reducing the population, that is why hydrogaurd's directions are to add with each water change. If you combine a 100% water change with tap water that contains chlorine you are all but eliminating almost all the bacteria this level of chlorine usually doesn't create an issue with the plant itself. By the time the population recovers you can see other bacteria, fungus take over or pythium take hold. So what do we do? use the same method used in other systems excluding aquaponics (i won't explain this part).

We change 25% of the water each week and do not steralize our systems. I always get a chuckle when I see ppl add something like hydrogaurd then add h202. Its no wonder they say hydrogaurd doesn't work. With a 25% water change we are reducing the salt build up from our nutrients by 1/4 you shouldn't see a lockout due to salinity throughout your grow. With the reduced amount of water changed we reduce the stress of the plants in several ways (large change in salinity, drastic reduction in beneficial bacteria etc.) If using chlorinated tap water will not will not significantly reduce the population if you look around at the sites i mentioned you will see this is of major importance and you will see its strictly to prevent the loss of bacteria and minimize stress of both plants and livestock. You can do it less often but i found for myself in hydro 25% a week is the sweet spot for a dummy proof application in reducing salt build up and keeping the bacteria population healthy.

Next we create a safety net for ourselves as sometimes we may need to replace parts or clean out our systems between yields. Its pretty simple we just need to give them a home that we can move around. A simple aquarium filter with the right media, this can be as easy as a $10 sponge filter. It provides a lot of surface area since its porous and a great home, is easily moved and we generally already have an air pump to run it. You never wash a filter under the tap water you only clean it in drained res water and lightly just swish it around this will ensure the bacteria are not killed off. You can simply plop it in a 5 gal pail of old res water and feed it a tiny amount once a week most of our nutes provide the sugars and amino's they need. Then refil your system treat it for chlorine/chloramines if needed and once the water temp is good plop the filter back in and the colony will reestablish itself relatively quickly (within days).

I am not a microbioligist and this information was self taught through research and experience over 20+ years of aquatics. There are lots of bacteria that will provide a symbiotic relationship with you plants. Hydrogaurd seems to be the most common in hydroponics and since i have experience with it I figured I would try to help fellow growers understand about it and save some money as the way this product is marketed you are led to believe you need to purchase a constant supply.

Hope that helps explain some and save you some money i welcome all feedback positive and negative. hopefully this can start some discussions on beneficial bacteria in hydro.
 
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Burned Haze

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* pond zyme with barley ( $25 bucks worth = 16,000 gallon application )
Specially selected bacterial strains in API® Pond-Zyme Sludge Destroyer immediately begin breaking down fish waste and dead algae that cause cloudy water, sludge build-up, and debris that clogs pumps and filters. Through enzymatic action, Pond-Zyme Sludge Destroyer reduces pond maintenance and keeps pond water clean and clear. Pond-Zyme Sludge Destroyer is a 100% natural product, & safe for all pond fish, plants, and wildlife.

DIRECTIONS FOR USE:

Initial dose at Spring start-up and end of season dose: add two scoops per 200 gallons of pond water twice a week for 2 weeks. Maintenance dose: add one scoop per 200 gallons every 2 weeks.
———



Not a Zymes but def a fungus defense for hydro /enzymes

Rootsheild wp
“RootShield® WP
Root Disease Control | Biological Fungicide – Wettable Powder

BENEFITS

Grows on roots “shielding” them against root damaging fungi
One application provides up to 12 weeks of protection
Drench for use on nursery, greenhouse and vegetables
Easier mixing – water soluble carrier
Releases enzymes that dissolve the cell wall of many fungal pathogens
Promotes a healthier root system increasing root mass potential
0-hour REI, 0-day
 
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cemchris

cemchris

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Honest question. Why use something like this vs using something like H202? You adding other organic/live inputs? Just curious. When dealing with water/hydro i have always ran sterile rezs and never had an issue with roots. Just stark white and healthy.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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Honest question. Why use something like this vs using something like H202? You adding other organic/live inputs? Just curious. When dealing with water/hydro i have always ran sterile rezs and never had an issue with roots. Just stark white and healthy.
Sterile works no doubt about it. But having beneficial bacteria provides more benefits and stability. H202 provides no real benefit to the plants other than killing both desirable and bad bacteria to prevent infection and i feel its a bit more risky but both work. If done like i described you can do 1 treatment and that's it and likely never have to worry about it again for the whole grow cycle and provide some benefits.

There is no right way and its either one way or the other but both work.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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Ive been using Southern Ag garden friendly fungicide, its got the same bacteria but much more concentrated. Have you had any adverse effects from bacteria concentrates, like shelve life ect?
View attachment 869166

What we don't know is if the strains are the same. There would be a shelf life and i haven't delved into much research on that subject since I am usually keeping a colony going and transferring it. It would have to do with how they reproduce. Spores for example can stay dormant a long time in the right conditions.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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Great subject. Do you have info about how these beneficial bacteria behave with nice soil fungus like mycorrhizae?
These bacteria do the same thing in soil as water and occur naturally. But i would use the Ag brand since its directed towards soil. Hydrogaurd may be a different strain that is not as well suited to those conditions. That's only speculation.

I'm not a dirt guy but this study i read suggests that they live in harmony with added benefits from both but no evidence suggesting they have a symbiotic relationship nor detrimental to either colony. So without any first hand knowledge I would say yes both would be more beneficial.

https://escholarship.org/uc/item/8g70p0zt
 
FamilyCanna

FamilyCanna

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Personally, I have been shocked at how there appears to be ZERO crossover between the guys who keep fish, and grow canna...

That being said, you are 100% right, and most of this industry is lightyears behind this standard.

I just returned from my local hydro shop, and tried to have a discussion on beneficial bacteria and the role in plays in our systems. Furthermore I discussed the issues surrounding the attempt to have a sustainable practice in a sterile environment, the shop clerk was reluctant at best when discussing this with me, as if I knew something I wasn't supppose to.

As the OP said, anyone who has ever ventured into Aquaponics KNOWS inherently that you CANNOT keep a sustainably healthy ecosystem by maintaining a sterile environment.

These Beneficial bacteria are just as important, if not more important than the nutrients we are attempting to feed with.

Remember - Beneficial bacteria and microbes create a 2-way network that harmoniously protects, feeds, and is in return fed by the host plant.

In our cannabis gardens, the biology in the solution is directly fed from sugars released by the plant, for the bacter. And in return, the bacter creates a biotic force field around our plants most vital organs, the roots and cell-walls themselves.

Would love to see more contributions to this, or plugs to linking threads.

Cheers
 
Matthewstever

Matthewstever

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All my evidence is anecdotal. I use hydroguard religiously in my hydro system. My grow is anything but sterile..
I throw in a couple teaspoons to my 40 gallon res whenever I have to adjust the pH.
I've used it on a few grows now and never had a sign of root rot....
Coincidence? Maybe.
But likely not.
 
Bmg1982

Bmg1982

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Great thread. Love my bennies... I'm in coco so need that insurance. Hydroguard is a great product and still have some in the bin. I'm using Floralicious Plus which utilizes Bacillus Subtilis and Molasses to feed the colonies. It's also Fulvic based and contains tons of other stuff like aminos, minerals, etc. Covers a lot of ground.

My Petricola breeding tank, just because aquariums rule!
20200127 200450
 
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AnselAdams

AnselAdams

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Great thread. Love my bennies... I'm in coco so need that insurance. Hydroguard is a great product and still have some in the bin. I'm using Floralicious Plus which utilizes Bacillus Subtilis and Molasses to feed the colonies. It's also Fulvic based and contains tons of other stuff like aminos, minerals, etc. Covers a lot of ground.

My Petricola breeding tank, just because aquariums rule!View attachment 934703

Yes they do! I miss my 350gal SW Reef tank. It was a lot of work but the kids loved it as much as I did. 🍻
 
Bmg1982

Bmg1982

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Yes they do! I miss my 350gal SW Reef tank. It was a lot of work but the kids loved it as much as I did. 🍻
Have never ventured into saltwater, mainly because as you said, it's a bit of work, haha.

Definitely going to stick with my planted freshwater setups as they need little maintenance.
 
AnselAdams

AnselAdams

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Have never ventured into saltwater, mainly because as you said, it's a bit of work, haha.

Definitely going to stick with my planted freshwater setups as they need little maintenance.

If grow as well as you do fish, 🤞 You are going to be fun to watch..... Keep on Tokin' Happy Farming.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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I've thought a lot about using a biofilter on a full organic RDWC. This is pretty interesting.
Trickle filter would be ideal for that. It's a very fine balance with hydro and organics though. Definitely not beginner friendly.
 
swervinmervyn

swervinmervyn

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3
Hey Aqua Man. I'm just starting out in DWC and have decided that sterile is not the way I want to go. I've been looking for an alternative to Hydroguard that I can get in Australia. The closest thing I have been able to find locally is this "Pond Biostarter"



The MSDS states it contains "Proprietry Mixture of Selected Group 1 Natural Micro-organisms in Buffered Suspension including, Nitrosomonas sp., Nitrobacter sp. Bacillus x 3, Megaterium, Pumilus, Licheniformis"

I reckon I could use this. What do you think?

Great tip on the 25% weekly res change btw. I assume you'd just adjust nutes to the desired EC after adding back the 25% fresh water?
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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638
Hey Aqua Man. I'm just starting out in DWC and have decided that sterile is not the way I want to go. I've been looking for an alternative to Hydroguard that I can get in Australia. The closest thing I have been able to find locally is this "Pond Biostarter"



The MSDS states it contains "Proprietry Mixture of Selected Group 1 Natural Micro-organisms in Buffered Suspension including, Nitrosomonas sp., Nitrobacter sp. Bacillus x 3, Megaterium, Pumilus, Licheniformis"

I reckon I could use this. What do you think?

Great tip on the 25% weekly res change btw. I assume you'd just adjust nutes to the desired EC after adding back the 25% fresh water?
When adding back i steer the ppm towards my goal so I may add back a higher or lower concentration to help steer the ppm to my target.

Southern AG fungicide is a good alternative and much cheaper alternative. You are looking for a source that contains a good amount of bacillus amyloliquefaciens. That is the active ingredient in hydroguard.

That product is basically Nitrobacter these are the species that are responsible for breaking ammonia/ammonium down into nitrite and nitrate. Very beneficial to inoculate with but does not contain the bacillus amyloliquefaciens species that is specifically used to prevent and target root rot.

Sorry for the late reply I missed this post
 
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