I thought the 'for-profit' dispensary model worked just fine, before HB-1284 and all the other shit that came after.
Regulation = Barrier to Free Trade
(not a single, SINGLE, regulation, TO DATE, has dealt directly with HEALTH & SAFETY, and BEST PRACTICES!)
If we were cooking fucking meatballs, we would at least have some useful regulation for the proper cooling of soups or meats, or proper storage temperature for meat.
WHY DON'T WE HAVE THESE.
Intellectual property, trade secrets...
Secrets are no fun, secrets hurt someone.

And why wouldn't those with clout, use it, because by nature the only barrier to entry in this business was 'balls'. Before, June '09....
And here we didn't even need the 'balls' that those out east/south have!

I guess, for me, it came down to seeing a lot of people 'kiss the Royal pinky ring', and seeing a lot of assholes move in here, fuck shit up (knowing they are just going to move back home).
And now hearing the 'troubles' dispensaries are having, after they have directly helped to strip away Constitutional rights, and brought upon themselves every bit of regulation.
I bet more than half of the dispensaries never grew a plant before June '09.
This boom didn't happen in Colorado, of all places, for no reason.

I think socialism can be a good concept but in practice, uhhhgg. I used to live in Boulder, seen the runoff.

I applaud the dispensaries working hard, doing work, getting shit done.
Just waiting for the musical chairs to start, and not the chairs getting taken away one, by one. But the bouncer to let in some of the other sitters, we could even add chairs, and just wait for people to head to the bar or something. But while there is a set amount of players, and set amount of chairs, it shall remain a game of chess.

DoobyScoo said:

I thought the 'for-profit' dispensary model worked just fine, before HB-1284 and all the other shit that came after.

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It was working fine. My GF and I were caregivers for about 25 patients pre HB10-1284. Dispensaries and Larger caregiver operations were humming along without a glitch.

DoobyScoo said:

(not a single, SINGLE, regulation, TO DATE, has dealt directly with HEALTH & SAFETY, and BEST PRACTICES!)

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I think that the whole 70/30 dispensary grow requirements were for just that reason. Dispensaries were slinging anything that came in the back door from god knows where. If some basement grower was slathering AVID in the last weeks, there was no way to track that down or who else he had sold to. Growers will say it was primarily to put them out of business, but I disagree. I think it was actually for product accountability/traceability. Sucks however it came to be.

DoobyScoo said:

And now hearing the 'troubles' dispensaries are having, after they have directly helped to strip away Constitutional rights, and brought upon themselves every bit of regulation.

Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that the dispensaries were sold out by Romer and the legislators more than they bought into this mess.

DoobyScoo said:

I bet more than half of the dispensaries never grew a plant before June '09.

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Another dispensary owner was in the shop the other day chatting it up with the trim girls. They gave him some Fiskars and put him to work. He didn't know how to trim. And he is an ass. You may be right, but not in all cases. I think my first plant was bagseed back in the 70's. It was a male, that much I remember.

DoobyScoo said:

Just waiting for the musical chairs to start, and not the chairs getting taken away one, by one. But the bouncer to let in some of the other sitters, we could even add chairs, and just wait for people to head to the bar or something. But while there is a set amount of players, and set amount of chairs, it shall remain a game of chess.

Click to expand...

If they pass the legislation that is cooking to keep the moratorium up for another year, it will be interesting. Shops can't move, expand, change grows, or generally do anything different. This will cause the closures to continue at an increased rate. I guess that is their desired result.

Well you would know.
Are there any regs now in place for Disps on HOW they can TREAT or GROW their product? (besides fire reg/code stuff, like no vert grows, ect...)
Has the state mandated a list of acceptable substances to treat your crop with, and at what times?
What certifies Organic cannabis vs. Conventional cannabis?
A clear, defined list of edible requirements. Probably the closest they have come to actual Regulation.

Have they even tried?
There is no money in that, and they already spent they money they got!
And now people are wondering should we keep feeding a bunch of crackheads?
:evilgrin0040:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i73dWYJqVHk

Dooby again tells it as it is. Much respect.

SoCoMMJ...saying Romer had more to do with this mess than the dispensaries is totally whack. Those who felt they had a right to go bigger did so AT EVERYONE ELSE'S EXPENSE...and THAT is why we are where we are today.

It wasn't because CG's were sellin tainted meds...and sayin shit like that time and time again shows who is truly >"hatin'< here. What a sad excuse for fuckin over the rest of the patient-base for your own greed/gain. Nobody has the right to do that, IMO....and such is why folks like me...even as patients...will vote/do whatever we can to end this before it ends ALL of us and the rights we worked so hard to gain in this State.

It's gonna be a fun show to watch em dismantle the business side of this.....cus in all REALITY..the Ogden memo and the latest memo from last week DON'T target >>>>PATIENTS<<<... they target the EX PATIENTS (the folks who have no defense because they are licensed) who are stomping all over the med laws for their own commercial gain/enterprise without any thought (respect) to what is happening to the folks the LAW WAS WRITTEN FOR.

I just spent 4K protecting my right to grow in my OWN HOME due to you fucktards... so call it hatin' if ya want but yer gettin' no sympathy/no quarter here.

How about the dispensary owners who didnt' want convicted "drug" felons operating in the scene? Was that to cut out the real competition concerning quality?

sky high said:

SoCoMMJ...saying Romer had more to do with this mess than the dispensaries is totally whack. Those who felt they had a right to go bigger did so AT EVERYONE ELSE'S EXPENSE...and THAT is why we are where we are today.

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Suthers gave his opinion that AM-20 didnt allow for dispensaries, that is all any politician needed to call for a ban instead of giving us 1284, i would have been fine with that. The only role the dispensary had was hiring the lobbyist that was yanking Romer around. but we been over this, I know we will not agree.

Really want to bash dispensaries, lets talk about the ones back in the days prior to 2009. You ever heard anything good about them? I think most patients knew they could get better meds from other connections and not talking about someone that bothers with red cards. The system failed prior to Obama, with only 5000 patients registered. Good for you and a handful like you but overall not working for patients.

I really dont care if the dispensaries go away, do you think its going to happen? I doubt it.

You say dispensaries wanted created that, but in fact it was romer and the legislature that did it. Many potential MMC owners were disqualified. Do you really think they supported it ?

Personally I thought it retarded. Most people in this business have had cultivation or possession somewhere along the way. Those are probably the people you want IN the business. Felony for fraud, money laundering, organized crime, assault, etc. maybe not... But growers, why not?

SoCoMMJ said:

I think that the whole 70/30 dispensary grow requirements were for just that reason. Dispensaries were slinging anything that came in the back door from god knows where. If some basement grower was slathering AVID in the last weeks, there was no way to track that down or who else he had sold to. Growers will say it was primarily to put them out of business, but I disagree. I think it was actually for product accountability/traceability. Sucks however it came to be.

Click to expand...

Don't you think it was more a matter of the state keeping tabs on the revenue stream, than it was a quality control issue? I never once heard Romer or Matt Brown talking about quality meds. It comes down to being able to track and tax every gram.

SoCoMMJ said:

You say dispensaries wanted created that, but in fact it was romer and the legislature that did it. Many potential MMC owners were disqualified. Do you really think they supported it ?

Personally I thought it retarded. Most people in this business have had cultivation or possession somewhere along the way. Those are probably the people you want IN the business. Felony for fraud, money laundering, organized crime, assault, etc. maybe not... But growers, why not?

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Yes, I think dispensaries got what they wanted, not you but the large ones. Control supply and limit competition. Romer wanted revenue and regulation so he went along.

COb said:

Don't you think it was more a matter of the state keeping tabs on the revenue stream, than it was a quality control issue? I never once heard Romer or Matt Brown talking about quality meds. It comes down to being able to track and tax every gram.

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Exactly.

I hate piping up, but again have to point out that its not the dispensaries- its the politicians. Again, the dispensaries are the standard capitalist that come with any new freedom. And if there are NO regulations to start with- WTF do you expect? You are going to get people who are semi-allowed to capitalize with no standards or regs. This is the politicians fault with AM. 20. Period. like I've said time and again, they had plenty of wtf's for 5-6 years before they even put Am.20 in place and to assume it wouldn't turn out like it has is just plain naive.

So what happens- Gov says they will back off (mar 09?), and pretty much the only other state thats medical but hasn't addressed MMC/Dispensaries was guess where? So what happened? as expected capitalists flooded in. Politicians (not voters necessarily) did not look at the possible implications of Am.20 and what would follow- and this is it. Shit I was barely politically active doing presentations on legalization in school about the time Am.20 passed and I could still see it coming- I was already explaining store front dispensary sales in Cali to people in TX for fucks sake.

But guess what, just like I've said before- the sheer volume of REAL patients that now have access to SOME SORT of medicine is staggering. Wasn't THAT the intent of Am.20? To give real patients access to medicine? Because that is happening regardless of politicians bs, and MMC's not up to par practices.

But whats really happening? Because only a few im sure actually get to see whats poppin at mmc's or even hear what really goes on in ops etc. And in turn there is bunch of "blaming/hating" in sometimes the wrong direction. Do i care for MMC's, not particularly but it doesn't mean they just be pushed out of business due to ignorance of politicians. All these steps against counties etc are out of IGNORANCE- not fact, not real threat (danger, crime, etc), not statistics, not on anything- just ignorance. So to sit and blame MMC's all day just isn't the finger to point.

SH- they are not stomping all over med laws, they are doing exactly what the politicians are letting them do. Give them an inch...etc, especially if you don't clarify and are more concerned about the revenue coming in...which obviously was the motivation for regulation.


Again to everyone- where did MMJ come from? California and more specifically from the support of the OCBC (Oakland cannabis buyers club)- a dispensary. So any law after the original MMJ concept that did not address dispensaries/mmc's, failed to grasp the concept (or see the full picture) and in turn must lay in the bed that was made. Sorry but it does break down to simple politics and economics.

Like any other business I think we will see the typical rise and fall of MMC's. The good ones will survive and the shit ones will go belly-up. I do think MMC's are going to get tangled up in bureaucratic cobwebs and find their profts being sukced into a political vacuum that will make it difficult. (not to mention the risk of possible fed raids and IRS invasions). IMO, it's kind of like a "sitting duck" thing.

Sorry but I think the majority of prices will drop as competiton continues.(seeing that now) There will always be competiton for the MMJ markets. There will still be the few bigdogs serving the upperclass and getting top dollar for their topnotch meds but the rest will eventually stabilize somewhere in the normal range.

I plan to grow most of my MMJ myself. I like having my redcard as it keeps the state pigs off my ass. But I still want to support any backyard grower or MMC so I can sample their products whenever I get the urge.

COb said:

It comes down to being able to track and tax every gram.

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Then why are they not taxing the caregiver to patient sales ?

SoCoMMJ said:

Then why are they not taxing the caregiver to patient sales ?

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I think thats coming down the pipe...sadly.

SoCoMMJ said:

Then why are they not taxing the caregiver to patient sales ?

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They could never enforce it, thats why they told us we have to sell at cost. talk about fuktards.

Its also why some of them wont be happy until they do away with caregivers. Its not just the money, caregivers are in the shadows, they cant live with that. Todays politician cant be happy if they arent able to watch over us and regulate our business. There is no limit to the level of studity they will achieve trying to ensure that.

Blah blah blah... Whine all you want about "dispensaries", but until you call out specific ones, you just sound like a hater.
There's nothing immoral about making money until you turn to shady business practices due to greed, or lie to your patients, or screw over the people who helped you along the way, or poison the very folks you're supposed to be "healing". I have heard many tales of this kind of behavior, but I'm not going to repeat anything I don't know for fact.

I do know beyond a shadow of doubt that when Mike Lee was running Cannabis Therapeutics in Co Springs, he sold my buddy some hideous excuse for medicine and refused to refund or exchange the product. Seriously, folks, I'd seen better mexi-brick that that garbage.

I will also testify that Brian Lee of Colorado Alternative Care Services (Colorado Springs) stole 3+ months of my life (working 10-14 hours nearly every day) without hardly any compensation. He also stole most of the strains I was running prior to linking up with his crooked ass. His excuse for kicking me out of the partnership was that I refused to lie to patients and keep the garden in the basement a big secret. What an ignorant prick he was. Maybe he's all grown up now.

Not every dispensary owner is a greedy crook. Just most of them. We shouldn't stereotype, we should be naming names. No rumors or hearsay; that'll get you sued for libel.
Just the facts. Every saint has a past, and every sinner has a future.

SoCoMMJ said:

Then why are they not taxing the caregiver to patient sales ?

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Because they haven't been able to put a mechanism in place to do so yet. Why else would they write language saying that CG's cannot make a profit?

@ True Grit. IDK man, you make some good points, but I voted for am 20 back in 98 and was active/aware in the political scene, and I never in a million years thought it would blow up the way it has. The consensus back then was that folks with AIDS and Cancer would be able to grow their own medicine without interference from the State. Back then there were pics on the news of the DEA handcuffing crippled old lady's in wheelchairs in Cali for a personal stash. I wouldn't call it naivete, I'd call it pragmatism. That was the era of Bush, and things haven't changed much.

FWIW, I'm not trying to bash MMC's. Do your thing. I am resentful toward the statehouse, and the MMC's that supported Matt Brown and the like, and they can eat a dick as far as I'm concerned. But I will say I'm glad I never got into the MMC game for many reasons.

Alt- Exactly. Not every mmc is crap and not all are screwing people, and like stated earlier- there are way MORE legit patients with access since the changes and MMCs- plain and simple. And that was the intent of Am.20.

Cob- But thats the point, just because there were negative images on tv (who cares about tv/news anyway) it doesn't change the fact that the entire MMJ movement came from a dispensary movement. So in actuality to say folks didn't see it coming- is naive. Or I guess it could be lack of information/research/or voter/poilitician responsibility before voting. I mean it wasn't a surprise it was the evolution of access to patients who needed it and could not provide it for themselves (i.e. cancer/aids patients) - that was THE basis. Caregiving/Providing/Dispensing to those in serious need was the intent- not growing a few plants for yourself as a patient...that was just the possibility for patients who were capable.

Mr Dank said:

How about the dispensary owners who didnt' want convicted "drug" felons operating in the scene? Was that to cut out the real competition concerning quality?

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Yes.
And then they try to fix it in HB-1043, b/c ?guess? what. They need them criminals.

"You don't want the truth, because deep down in places you don't talk about in parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j2F4VcBmeo
:worried

SoCoMMJ said:

You say dispensaries wanted created that, but in fact it was romer and the legislature that did it. Many potential MMC owners were disqualified. Do you really think they supported it ?

Click to expand...

Ones with more money than you. Ones that saw/knew how the disp model worked in Cali.
Why?
Regulations keep out competition in a market where there is low economic barriers to entry. So, barriers and checkpoints have to be erected.
And then licenses become sooo valuable.

There is STILL NO legislation regarding HEALTH and SAFETY.

Why were the first laws ZONING laws?

Because people with more money than us, been players in the game for years, were connected....
They were fighting each other.

It was like when I talked to the VP Marketing of Coors in early 2000s and asked the question "With the rising popularity of microbrews, how do you prepare for their competition entering the market"
Her answer. "We don't care about them. We concern ourselves with Budweiser and SAB Miller"

It wasn't until one of them started doing more craft brews and gaining market share, that the rest followed suit. Coors was the company to initiate the competition, with Blue Moon.