DIY room cooling with Water experiment.

[theTinker]

Just use that car battery charger, should work just fine

Word. Get one with a 2 amp trickle charge feature, you may well findthis is entirely enough power to run your fan and still keep it reasonably quiet.

Yeah, thats what my previous post was about.
It worked great.

update
I tried the lower power charger tonight. It didnt work due to short circuit protection in the charger. The fan must provide so little resistance that it believes its a short circuit.

Looks like Il pick up another one of charger i used earlier. A lower power one anyways. 8amps was overkill. The 1200cc model they sell gives about 4 amps. Should be more than enough. Having fun with this.

 

[seebobsled]

Yeah, thats what my previous post was about.
It worked great.

update
I tried the lower power charger tonight. It didnt work due to short circuit protection in the charger. The fan must provide so little resistance that it believes its a short circuit.

Hey Tinker add a small 12v battery (like jetski,motorcycle...even ups backup)
it will solve the short circuit on chargers.Also look @ 12v-14v transformers in phone chargers.Or how about a old computer power supply?

 

[water wise guy]

i think this is awesome. keep us posted on how well it works for you. i am very interested in how well this works for people in the colder climates. we have done simillar type of set-ups using ice boxes and a compressorless chiller outside. same exact principle as what you are trying to do just using pre-made equipment. it worked great for us in southern cali for the whole winter and even in the summer for smaller systems as long as we were running at night. best of luck i would love to see this once it is up and running.

 

[theTinker]

Hey Tinker add a small 12v battery (like jetski,motorcycle...even ups backup)
it will solve the short circuit on chargers.Also look @ 12v-14v transformers in phone chargers.Or how about a old computer power supply?

Thanks bro, I thought about that. Quick question, maybe u can answer. Can a battery be used + charged at the same time? I'd also have to make sure the charger crocodile clips dont touch the clips/wires to the fan.
Its ok though, the other free charger also had to be turned on and THEN pressed GO. I dont like this as it wouldnt work on a timer. The 32bucks charger in the picture above works on/off so this will work nicely.
And i might aswell buy the charger that works for 32bucks, rather than a battery for 20+ that will add other issues etc. But thanks for the idea. this would defintely overcome the short circuit issue with that charger. If i had a battery, i'd definitely go this nice free route :)
Might also help someone else who does similar.

 

[theTinker]

i think this is awesome. keep us posted on how well it works for you. i am very interested in how well this works for people in the colder climates. we have done simillar type of set-ups using ice boxes and a compressorless chiller outside. same exact principle as what you are trying to do just using pre-made equipment. it worked great for us in southern cali for the whole winter and even in the summer for smaller systems as long as we were running at night. best of luck i would love to see this once it is up and running.

I will certainly not abandon this idea until i finish it or fail. I may be inactive for about a week very shortly as i have a vacation trip planned to the US FL for 9 days.
Money is very tight at the moment due to this so even buying a charger is a bit tough right now. Should be back in business in the next 2 weeks though and afford some food! :)

 

[Chillville]

Strictly speaking, you don't need a reservoir, but the reason I suggest one anyway is because sooner or later you're gonna want to modify/repair/disassemble your system, and you will want to have someplace you can keep all that expensive propylene glycol you're investing in. Using a good sized drum as a res, and especially locating a valve right at the outlet, will allow you to conveniently pump all the working fluid into a container so you can work on the system. And while it's there, it will help keep your system running efficiently as well, by adding a little thermal mass to the working fluid to help reduce temperature swings.

P.S. I think Chillville means don't use a mix of propylene glycol and something else. But you do want the working fluid to be a 50/50 mix of p. glycol and water, the glycol isn't a very good working fluid on its own... Correct me if I'm wrong on this point, Chill?

Your right, a res would be better but not necessary. It will store cooling energy while the lights are off that you can use while the lights are on, the larger the res the more stored energy you have access to.

That's right, for this application I would get 100% propelyne glycol, it comes 100%, 50/50, and 30/70 straight out the bottle. For temps that low 100% is a must. There is a thread here about glycol that someone posted a link to get 100% you can order online. About $25 per gallon with shipping if I remember properly.

 

[Chillville]

Yeah, thats what my previous post was about.
It worked great.

update
I tried the lower power charger tonight. It didnt work due to short circuit protection in the charger. The fan must provide so little resistance that it believes its a short circuit.

Looks like Il pick up another one of charger i used earlier. A lower power one anyways. 8amps was overkill. The 1200cc model they sell gives about 4 amps. Should be more than enough. Having fun with this.

Ya lol, I saw that shortly after I posted. You guys are getting hard to keep up with :)

 

[Chillville]

Thanks bro, I thought about that. Quick question, maybe u can answer. Can a battery be used + charged at the same time? I'd also have to make sure the charger crocodile clips dont touch the clips/wires to the fan.
Its ok though, the other free charger also had to be turned on and THEN pressed GO. I dont like this as it wouldnt work on a timer. The 32bucks charger in the picture above works on/off so this will work nicely.
And i might aswell buy the charger that works for 32bucks, rather than a battery for 20+ that will add other issues etc. But thanks for the idea. this would defintely overcome the short circuit issue with that charger. If i had a battery, i'd definitely go this nice free route :)
Might also help someone else who does similar.

Yes you can use a battery and just hook the charger to it, in fact that is probably the proper way to do it. The battery will act as a buffer, especially on startup of the fan when the most power is needed. It will probably make the fan and the charger last longer. A cheap lawnmower battery should work fine.

 

[theTinker]

Yes you can use a battery and just hook the charger to it, in fact that is probably the proper way to do it. The battery will act as a buffer, especially on startup of the fan when the most power is needed. It will probably make the fan and the charger last longer. A cheap lawnmower battery should work fine.

IF charging a battery though, wont that remove my ability to ON/OFF the fan with a timer?
There would be a delay until depletion of energy within the battery?

Your right about it prolonging life of the charger though, This is definitely a concern as they are not meant for continuous output like that. But they do say on the side of them that a FULL battery recharge may take 20 hours, so It may hold up!

Thanks again for the input. Ideas like these keep us all making progress.

 

[Chillville]

Not sure if you want to use these but they are cheap heat exchangers

 

[seebobsled]

this another option $18.99 5/8" in/out size is 8"x6"x2" Ford Escort heater core... I found a use for Ford!

 

[seebobsled]

diy ice box

Chillville
Not sure if you want to use these but they are cheap heat exchangers



This a better deal to diy the 8" ice box. It is hydro Innovation's heat exchanger without the plastic shrouds. I did not like the Ford... air flow or the lack of thick vertical water flow tubes is bad in design. I now have some coming from H.I. from the above link. Thanks Chillville!!

:cool0041:
just puffffffff

 

[Vanilla Smasher]

Been there, done that. You will get severe condensation problem that will clog up that car radiator. Unless you use some kind of turbo fan but even then you will get subpar performance..

Look at how a radiator is actually built and you get an idea of how to solve this.. You have bigger tubes running left&right and all the little fins are connected to those. This works very nice when you want to dissipate heat but not cold.

If you want to build an AC then you need lots of copper pipes for example. Create a maze of them inside a big plastic tube(to collect the condensation water) and then put something cold in the copper piping(cold water is good) and some ventilation through the big plastic tube..

El cheapo AC!

 

[aSilvrHaze]

How would condensation clog up the rad? I'm planning on using a heater core from a '70 LeSabre and hopefully creating some kind of shroud made from a duct register box. This wouldn't work for some reason?

 

[Chillville]

He's right, it will clog up a radiator. Radiators are never designed to have condensation on them and they are cooling best running 70 MPH down the highway with all the air pressure they need to work at 100% capacity.

BTW anyone using any heat exchanger to collect condensation make sure to put them on an angle, close to 45 degrees. Almost any heat exchagner more than a couple rows thick will clog up from condensation especially if not using enough airflow. Water is heavy and when stuck between fins it needs gravity or airflow to move it out, I prefer gravity (putting it on an angle). High airflow can cause the water to spray out of the fan.

Also I have to suggest to pull air across the heat exchagner, dont push. You will get more efficiency from it because more air will evenly contact the exchanger under a vacuum.

 

[shawn.miller]

I have a water cooled system in a 25x15 flower room and a 25x6 veg room. it is to (help) cool the room with a 3 ton a/c unit and 9, 1000 watt lights. The water res is 200 gal and I have a water cooled CO2 with the water cooled cap on top so that 86% of the heat from the CO2 never heats the room up.... the water cooling does (HELP) but doesnt work as well as hoped especially on a hot California day/night....heres some hints... as many electric fans, coolers, blowers, pumps that you can have outside do it....they all add heat to your room and or your water.... another hint for the 2 tank system hot air/water rises so have a hose from the bottom of the hot water return tank exit from the outside down low and it will drain up and over the top of a slightly lower tank (pump tank) into the cooler/pump tank water always finds its own level.... so when you overfill the hot tank it will push the cooler water out the bottom (which is cooler) into the pump tank which then cools even more as it falls to the bottom before it is pumped.....If budget is not a problem...? get a 1/2 horse chiller or 2 (we have 2 inline) and put it after the 2 tanks and the pump as its pumped towards the fan/hot box in the room....another hint the submersible pumps run cool if they are not under very much of a load so (no restriction) and a bigger diameter hose on the return is also a good idea... it will take about 3 days of continuous pumping to start to cool the water ...its not very fast... another hint almost everyone has an air scrubber with a fan to scrub the air in the room...well add a hot box to the top and the cooler water will cool the air coming from the air scrubber/room and will (help) cool your room (we also raised our air scrubbers up to the ceiling to grab the hottest air to help cool it and to give us more plant/floor space ... we have added 5 hot boxes to fans either air scrubbing or moving air/circulation....the a/c runs much less in both rooms in fact the veg room a/c doesnt even run except on the hottest of days... general rule of thumb from water cooled ....is get way more than you ever thought because it works, just not as well as you might hope..... unless you can get a 4-5 horse power water chiller.

 

[theTinker]

I never even considered condensation.

Will pulling air through the radiator with condensation on it create large amounts of spraying?

 

[Chillville]

I have a water cooled system in a 25x15 flower room and a 25x6 veg room. it is to (help) cool the room with a 3 ton a/c unit and 9, 1000 watt lights. The water res is 200 gal and I have a water cooled CO2 with the water cooled cap on top so that 86% of the heat from the CO2 never heats the room up.... the water cooling does (HELP) but doesnt work as well as hoped especially on a hot California day/night....heres some hints... as many electric fans, coolers, blowers, pumps that you can have outside do it....they all add heat to your room and or your water.... another hint for the 2 tank system hot air/water rises so have a hose from the bottom of the hot water return tank exit from the outside down low and it will drain up and over the top of a slightly lower tank (pump tank) into the cooler/pump tank water always finds its own level.... so when you overfill the hot tank it will push the cooler water out the bottom (which is cooler) into the pump tank which then cools even more as it falls to the bottom before it is pumped.....If budget is not a problem...? get a 1/2 horse chiller or 2 (we have 2 inline) and put it after the 2 tanks and the pump as its pumped towards the fan/hot box in the room....another hint the submersible pumps run cool if they are not under very much of a load so (no restriction) and a bigger diameter hose on the return is also a good idea... it will take about 3 days of continuous pumping to start to cool the water ...its not very fast... another hint almost everyone has an air scrubber with a fan to scrub the air in the room...well add a hot box to the top and the cooler water will cool the air coming from the air scrubber/room and will (help) cool your room (we also raised our air scrubbers up to the ceiling to grab the hottest air to help cool it and to give us more plant/floor space ... we have added 5 hot boxes to fans either air scrubbing or moving air/circulation....the a/c runs much less in both rooms in fact the veg room a/c doesnt even run except on the hottest of days... general rule of thumb from water cooled ....is get way more than you ever thought because it works, just not as well as you might hope..... unless you can get a 4-5 horse power water chiller.

I'm agreeing with you on almost all of what you say and it sounds like an interesting setup. I don't agree with your general rule of thumb though. If you get equipement designed for water-cooling, and you are using it properly (ie correct water temp, water flow, and air flow) then there is no need to have an excessive amount of equipment to make water-cooling work.

What water temperature range are you working with for your water-cooled system?

What is a hot box?

 

[Chillville]

I never even considered condensation.

Will pulling air through the radiator with condensation on it create large amounts of spraying?

You wont get condensation unless your water gets below the dewpoint in your garden. This is typically between 55-62 degrees in gardens, depending on temperature and the humidity in the garden.

Pulling is better for condensation collection too, less spraying for sure.

 

[ttystikk]

PUSH thru Iceflow boxes, PULL thru hoods, Grasshopper!

You wont get condensation unless your water gets below the dewpoint in your garden. This is typically between 55-62 degrees in gardens, depending on temperature and the humidity in the garden.

Pulling is better for condensation collection too, less spraying for sure.

Couple of things here: One, Just by happy accident I put my Iceflow boxes on an angle, and they drain most of the condensation off nicely. The rest does spray out and onto the floor, so I keep a towel down there. This does a good job of regulating humidity, lol.

Two, I've seen people suggesting that you pull air thru the iceflow boxes, and I have to respectfully disagree. Here's why: Anytime you run a gas- like air- through a fan (or any other compressor section), you're HEATING it. This is why when you PUSH air through your hood vents, the ducting and the hoods get hot. So don't do it, lol.

The Iceflow box is the opposite situation, hower; you want the compressd, heated air to pass through the Iceflow box to get the maximum temperature differential, thus maximizing efficiency. Then when the air decompresses (slightly, but it counts for a lot!) as it passes across the cooling core in your Iceflow box, it will be cooler than if you pull air through and then heat it on the way out with your fan. Don't believe me? Try it both ways, and let your hand or thermometer tell you which works better. Besides, I don't want condensation drops sucking through my expensive maxfans, so I wouldn't pull through even if it didn't work better.

This is known as 'Uniform Gas Law' in physics, and if properly utilized it will drastically inprove the efficiency of the cooling systems you use. Used improperly, well, you'll find yourself trying to overcome physics with horsepower and while that's possible, it's always expensive.