Does your uc ph drop a lot and often ? Do you know why?

[Bubblehaze]

So I run 6 uc's some home made and some current culture. I run co2 natural gas burners in some rooms and none in other I have sealed rooms and open. All my rooms have ph problems at some time during there life cycle sometimes in veg and in flower. I still have yet to nail down the exact reason and was hoping someone else's experience could help me. I run low ppm's never going over 900 usually veg 400-600 flower 600-850 running all an ph perfect,zone and cal mag. veg adding big bud and overdrive in flower.
I have a few that have stayed perfect all the way through but its not consistent and I am doing the same things.
I will give a scenario I a 11k 8 site 35 gallon uc that when full is over 250 gallons. I made the water for veg 500 ppm using no ph down it was 6.3 left it alone . 2 days later it was 5.4 and dropping. This room has a 16 site natural gas burner and the room is sealed. Lately the burner has been having trouble starting and sometimes I smell gas. I was wondering if that could build up in there and cause problems. The ph was always dropping. So we unsealed the room added a 10 inch exhaust fan..Also moved the air pumps out of the room too. It seems to have stabilized but not sure if its from what i did.I have the same problem in another room the veg it still doing the same and there is no co2 in that room. I always thought it was from hi ec/ppms but I find that not to be the situation in my case.

 

[UCMENOW]

pH not so perfect?

Been hearing of some DM ZONE issues as of late...anyone else?

 

[Bubblehaze]

pH not so perfect?

Been hearing of some DM ZONE issues as of late...anyone else?

I got a bad bottle of zone a while back. It was purple tinted. I wish that was the problem that would be easy
.

 

[BudGoggles]

Ever find out what was wrong. Im having some goofy ph drops outta knowhere
Kinda think it may be the zone Im using

 

[babyhughie586]

ive had a couple different colors of DM zone... about a year ago i was getting like neon blue/green color that didnt make bubble up... Recently it has been a light greenish brown color that bubbles up like crazy... No problems with either of them so far... what color is the bad zone suppose to be??

 

[redwhiteblue]

If you're using benes, you may have a nitrogen issue as they decompose.

 

[squiggly]

Thiols (mercaptans) are the molecules that make gas smell.

They are also acidic.

Consider the following situation:

If you run a sealed room, and your burners deplete the oxygen to low enough levels--they will start to push unreacted gas and thiols into your atmosphere.

The gas, which mixes quickly and readily with the atmosphere is then free to dissolved into your water. The thiols, being polar molecules prefer to be in the water much more than they like to be in the non-polar atmosphere.

Once dissolved, the thiols readily donate a proton and lower your pH.

The takeaway:

If you run co2 burners in a sealed setup--you need to either add oxygen to your room, or have the burner turn off when oxygen levels get too low.

 

[squiggly]

Should be noted that you ought to do this for safety concerns primarily--but helping your plants is a strong second place.

 

[woodsmaneh]

I have used Zone for a couple years and had no issues, I still use it off and on. I switched to H2O2 and all is well.

If your nutes are at 500ppm and two days later there at 350ppm you need to up your ppm! It works like this, change res set ppm at say 600ppm ph 5.9 run for 24hrs, now if you ppm rise and ph drops nutes are too strong. If ppm drop and ph rises, nutes are too weak. But if your ppm and ph are basically stable then you have found the right mix for your plants.

 

[tipper619sd]

I have used Zone for a couple years and had no issues, I still use it off and on. I switched to H2O2 and all is well.

If your nutes are at 500ppm and two days later there at 350ppm you need to up your ppm! It works like this, change res set ppm at say 600ppm ph 5.9 run for 24hrs, now if you ppm rise and ph drops nutes are too strong. If ppm drop and ph rises, nutes are too weak. But if your ppm and ph are basically stable then you have found the right mix for your plants.

Exactly what needs to be said thanks man

 

[Bubblehaze]

Thiols (mercaptans) are the molecules that make gas smell.

They are also acidic.

Consider the following situation:

If you run a sealed room, and your burners deplete the oxygen to low enough levels--they will start to push unreacted gas and thiols into your atmosphere.

The gas, which mixes quickly and readily with the atmosphere is then free to dissolved into your water. The thiols, being polar molecules prefer to be in the water much more than they like to be in the non-polar atmosphere.

Once dissolved, the this readily donate a proton and lower your pH.

The takeaway:

If you run co2 burners in a sealed setup--you need to either add oxygen to your room, or have the burner turn off when oxygen levels get too low.

Thanks for all the suggestions

I haven't pin pointed the problem yet.
But here is where I am at:

1st Squiggly hit it on the head from what I was thinking. Sealed room and lack of oxygen from the gas burner and lack of air exchange. But I haven't proven it yet.
What I have been doing.I don't let it go below 6.0 and if it does I immediately start bringing it up.Its been working but I am not happy about the ph up I have to keep adding.

2nd I was wondering if it could be the dead roots/debris that the filter don't catch building up in the system. Using zone I have no sensizyme in it.

I am leaning towards the fresh air situation because that is the most sensible possibility.
I will let you know if I figure it out 100% so far still guessing.

Also I know the whole ppms to high the ph drops and ppms go up situation I know its not that because the systems rarely go to even 700 ppm
The ppms are staying the same in some and dropping in other systems but the ph is dropping in all of them.

 

[BudGoggles]

Im having the same issue. This last rez change I didnt add the zone and so far after 3 days ph has been stable. But who knows usually day 4 is when it goes whacky. Ill let ya know how it rides out. If it gets fixed zone is the problem for me any ways

 

[Quantum9]

If ppm drop and ph rises, nutes are too weak. But if your ppm and ph are basically stable then you have found the right mix for your plants.

To me this is like telling a child that god is a big guy in the sky....

I realize that this mantra is proclaimed far and wide around many forums - in fact i think i first read about it in the late 90's around the time i started to play with lucas.

The problem is that it is so generalized and unsophisticated that it is rarely helpful, and often just false. It is much more common for RDWC systems to have an imbalanced nutrient profile that causes problems in the water chemistry, rather then simply reducing the problem to the strength or weakness of the solution.

I am not saying this "mantra" is worthless, just overused to the point of absurdity. If the problem is based in an imbalance, an environmental issue, a water level problem, O2, etc etc; all of which are more common problems then solution strength, your simply going raise or lower the strength of the problem, and never get to the bottom of the real issue.

 

[Quantum9]

Thiols (mercaptans) are the molecules that make gas smell.

They are also acidic.

Consider the following situation:

If you run a sealed room, and your burners deplete the oxygen to low enough levels--they will start to push unreacted gas and thiols into your atmosphere.

The gas, which mixes quickly and readily with the atmosphere is then free to dissolved into your water. The thiols, being polar molecules prefer to be in the water much more than they like to be in the non-polar atmosphere.

Once dissolved, the thiols readily donate a proton and lower your pH.

The takeaway:

If you run co2 burners in a sealed setup--you need to either add oxygen to your room, or have the burner turn off when oxygen levels get too low.

very nice diagnosis. Since co2 is such a problem for dark reactions there should be a blow off in place to clear the room at lights out anyway, you can increase the usage of the blow-off to solve the problem as well.

 

[woodsmaneh]

Dissolved CO2 in water does affect PH and there is a direct correlation but I doubt it comes from the CO2 he is using. Time spent in other area's would be better spent IMHO.

Moving the air pumps out was a good move. I use Canna Aqua and BB and OD with some cal-mag. My ph holds steady for about 3 days than moves but that's to be expected. I don't chase PH at all. I work with 5.4 to 6.1 than take action. After 3 days stable numbers worry me, they should be drinking or eating and that changes chemistry.

Quantum 9, your comments on my post are always welcome. It is always wise to not over look the basic's and helpful to most who are looking for a place to start to learn, to trash the statement than say it does work than trash it again? If it was toxic overload from the co2 it would show up first on the meter, do you think? Even if the room is air tight (I doubt it) when you went in and checked the monitor it would be off the scale. You would notice it far before your water became contaminated by CO2, besides he's not running CO2 hard at all.

May be a bad bottle of food?

 

[woodsmaneh]

The more I look at this the more of a head scratchier it is, I run a 10 site 35 gal system when full it has 200 gal and the res which is 45 gal. I found the big system to be more stable than my UC's or other DIY systems I have. CO2 being pumped into your water by your air pumps looks like a good place to start as you have done. Do you still have air pumps in rooms with CO2, if you do it should be a problem with them all.

 

[Bubblehaze]

I thinks its the zone.
Some of the systems that are in rooms that don't have co2 and they are drifting as well.
Zone is the only common thing I can place in every situation I have.
I understand the normal drift is always gonna happen but I was experiencing it going from 6.0 to 5.1 and even 4.5 sometimes overnight. It seems to stop after a week but thats after putting ph up in too many times for my and the plants liking.
So today in one of the 6 uc's after a complete clean up. I reset it with no zone. Only A.N. and sensizyme lets see how it acts in the next few days. Right now its 6.0 600 ppm. Fingers crossed that I won't be h2o2'ing the plants tomorrow. I am positive that the zone recipe has changed and now I have to use and amount that is not being productive. We have had more than one color lately. I had this problem before using zone but not to this extent.
I will post the results.

 

[BudGoggles]

I cut out the zone 6 days ago and today the ph dropped again. It was pretty stable drifting slowly for 5 days but bam down to 4.0 outta no where.

 

[Quantum9]

You hadnt mentioned the sensizime that i saw earlier... All zimes are known to cause issues like your describing in the UC...

 

[Bubblehaze]

I cut out the zone 6 days ago and today the ph dropped again. It was pretty stable drifting slowly for 5 days but bam down to 4.0 outta no where.

hmmmm One of my other theory's is not to let it get below a set level like 6.0 even 5.9 I put it back or it starts dropping rapidly once it gets past a certain point

You hadnt mentioned the sensizime that i saw earlier... All zimes are known to cause issues like your describing in the UC...

I haven't used sensizyme in the uc's in a long time I use it in soil. But if I am not using zone well its time to use it again I did real good with it.

Really I am using the new AN ph perfect and I am not digging it but my partner has a hard on for AN If I am not running sterile res then here comes the benes

My best crop to date in the uc came from GH flora 3 part , big bud , sensizyme,overdrive,bio root,silica and cal meg with little mycos ws. Then I got root rot in my next veg throwing my whole game off.