DOR..If Anyone is Interested

sky high · Dec 13, 2010

In 5 years all that will exist in the "MMC" world will be will be the Cannamarts and iGrows.

Reason #1...it's the way "business" works today. (Mom and pop are dead)

Reason #2...and specific to our MMJ laws... the patient base was splintered/continues to be splintered by the new models placed forth. Whereas the "old" days were 100% dependent on patient "networking"...the recent changes that have brought "centers" and the changes to cargiverships and patient-to-patient sales/etc. that are surely in the works as we speak >>are<< taking us ALL away from that "networking" type of an existence and >>are<<< turning this all into an impersonalized-based set of transactions in an impersonal scene.

wot a mess....

s h

Dorje · Dec 13, 2010

sky high said:
Reason #1...it's the way "business" works today. (Mom and pop are dead)

Now that's true... but it has to include ALL business, because in the USA you have to go big or go home.

In the mid '90s I ran a legal, gourmet mushroom business cultivating oyster mushrooms in Boulder, we sold them at Farmer's markets and to restaurants.

Unfortunately, making a buck or 2 here and there at markets and the backdoor of restaurants isn't a good long term plan.

So, working from the current wholesale oyster mushroom prices there is a minimum size of the operation required to be able to produce mushrooms at the current prices. This MINIMUM size would have required a couple hundred thousand to start up and a few employees to help run the place.

Most, if not all businesses are like this, there is a high minimum cost involved to get started no matter what business you're talking about. Honestly, setting up a mmj shop and grow is kinda on the low end of what it takes to get a biz started... the last biz I helped start had a budget in the hundreds of millions rather than hundreds of thousands (Colorado Windpower!).

Mr.Sputnik · Dec 13, 2010

Dorje, that's what Matt Cook and Romer are trying to accomplish with HB1284. they're trying to raise the barrier to enter the market so high that few people will be able to compete. I'm still a firm believer that if you can grow well and you cater to your market you will have a niche carved for yourself.

I think it's going to look alot like the beer market. You'll have budweiser and you'll have microbrews but they really don't compete on the same level. We'll have 1-3 huge businesses that run 3-5 decent strains a piece and they'll do them fairly well but very consistent. The big players will dominate 80% of the market share because most americans settle for cheap mediocre crap.

TheReleafCenter · Dec 13, 2010

Mr.Sputnik said:
Dorje, that's what Matt Cook and Romer are trying to accomplish with HB1284. they're trying to raise the barrier to enter the market so high that few people will be able to compete. I'm still a firm believer that if you can grow well and you cater to your market you will have a niche carved for yourself.

I think it's going to look alot like the beer market. You'll have budweiser and you'll have microbrews but they really don't compete on the same level. We'll have 1-3 huge businesses that run 3-5 decent strains a piece and they'll do them fairly well but very consistent. The big players will dominate 80% of the market share because most americans settle for cheap mediocre crap.

I'm not sure decent, consistent, low cost meds are a bad thing. I think there is a tendency online to say "Listen, if your bud doesn't look like a High Times centerfold with a two month cure on it, it doesn't have medicinal value." In reality, a lot of patients aren't looking for a 27% THC strain... they just want something that helps with their ailment.

The goal of the medical marijuana community should always be safe, affordable, private access to medicine. Private is the only thing I see taking a real hit, but we'll have to see what these databases shape up to be. "Cheap mediocre crap" seems to be a value statement to me. Not everyone likes drinking Fat Tire... but it's an interesting comparison.

TheReleafCenter · Dec 13, 2010

Double post.

Dorje · Dec 13, 2010

Mr.Sputnik said:
Dorje, that's what Matt Cook and Romer are trying to accomplish with HB1284. they're trying to raise the barrier to enter the market so high that few people will be able to compete. I'm still a firm believer that if you can grow well and you cater to your market you will have a niche carved for yourself.

I think it's going to look alot like the beer market. You'll have budweiser and you'll have microbrews but they really don't compete on the same level. We'll have 1-3 huge businesses that run 3-5 decent strains a piece and they'll do them fairly well but very consistent. The big players will dominate 80% of the market share because most americans settle for cheap mediocre crap.

Exactly.

I don't like it, and I think US business practices and ethics are at the core of the current economic "crisis". We need a more sustainable model of how we work, produce and consume goods. 6+ billion people can't work 40+ hours a week producing crap...

Despite that, I'd rather see the scenario you are describing than the continuation of the drug war.

As far as what it costs to start a biz, it's getting harder because of our $hitty economy but it's always been really hard. I'm not too old but as far back as I can remember starting a biz has always required an extraordinary amount of dedication and money. Finding the money has always been hard, and has always excluded those less fortunate, but those less fortunate do have the opportunity to save up or find partners with money.

I've worked for myself the great majority of my life and owned several businesses. Mj is different because of the black market and resulting inflated prices, but for those doing it according to the law it is much like any other biz.

Just like your analogy to the beer market, there will be a day when growing weed is like home brewing, there will be little economic incentive and those who do it will do it because they like herb, and not because they like money. Those who do it commercially will have to offer good value or a superior product... box wine or vintage merlot?

sky high · Dec 14, 2010

Dorje said:
Now that's true... but it has to include ALL business, because in the USA you have to go big or go home

Exactly my point. Right now, the folks running Centers have a complete monopoly on the market via their "Red Card". When legalization comes, that exclusive fun ticket will cease to exist and everyone will end up on the same playing field.

good luck

s h

sky high · Dec 14, 2010

Anybody know what happened to Releaf?

TyKaycha · Dec 14, 2010

Still around, and I'm sure he'll pop his head in soon.

TyKaycha · Dec 14, 2010

So I was wrong. ReLeaf has been banned from here, and he doesn't know why. Thinks it has to do with posting pics of his genetics but that would be the first I've heard of that sort of thing happening.

:edit: after reviewing his posts, I'm guessing the one posting advertising his clones for sale got him banned.

sky high · Dec 22, 2010

Yikes. Can you find anyone you know? I did.

alpine dank · Dec 22, 2010

Yuppers Sky... that list has been on DOR for a while now. What freaks me out and is against the Constitution is the mirror patient registry for law enforcement they are proposing. I am talking with attorney's in the next couple of days to make sure my understanding of Constitutional law is correct. As it is written now, law enforcement will get there own patient database that they can access anytime they feel like it, and from there patrol cars with no request for access involved. If one has a scrip for percoset, oxy....... can they legally access that info without warrant and major scrutiny? nope. They will be able to run plates on vehicles and pull you over just because you have the red card. In case anyone missed it, there was a HUGE leak of "confidential" informants earlier this year out there on the front range. Over 200,000 names, addresses, socials, phone numbers of "confidential" informants and anyone related to "investigations". This list was online for over 8 months before they figured out they had an issue. It was also accessed outside of the U.S. For me, I really don't care if my name is out there, but this will cause a big reduction in license renewals. Just another way the state is going to give the whole shooting match to big pharma/tobaccco. They have the funds to comply with whatever the state tells em they have to do, and they don't really care about patients, so get ready for that $50 pack of marlboro greens!

As Sky likes to say, "wot a mess".

SoCoMMJ · Dec 22, 2010

alpine dank said:
As it is written now, law enforcement will get there own patient database that they can access anytime they feel like it, and from there patrol cars with no request for access involved. If one has a scrip for percoset, oxy....... can they legally access that info without warrant and major scrutiny? nope. They will be able to run plates on vehicles and pull you over just because you have the red card.

This is one of those unfounded rumors that start flying around, usually from CTI. After talking to Matt Cook, the director of the DOR I believe that they will be able to maintain confidentiality and still do what they need to do.

The database will be driven by card number and exp date only. In that case a police officer will be able to confirm that a card is valid. Same with dispensaries. They will be able to pull up a card number and confirm that they are still assigned as the center for that card. Since you have to be in possession of a card to have the number and date, no confidentiality is violated. They don't have to have a name or other identifying info to run the system.

I believe that they will run a system similar to that used for allergy drugs that prevent the meth heads from buying up all of the Claritin in town. Enter the card number when you make a purchase. If somebody is buying excessive amounts from different places, it will flag. Not sure what they will determine to be excessive, but if you buy a lot from different places you will have issues.

They can do all this with the card number and don't need the name or other personal identifying data.

sky high · Dec 22, 2010

That may be the case...but it still doesn't excuse the fact that they are changing the constitutional basis/verbiage of Amendment 20 without a vote of the people.

"Confidentiality" has always been the cornerstone of this program/Amendment. If they fuck with such they will not only see a mass exodus from the program (Red card/State $$$ only, nobody will stop growing..LOL), I believe they may tip the scale and cause the entire mess called 1284 to be ruled unconstitutional. (Fuckin A...we can only hope!)

did you also see that they have stated that they may not take any public commentary on any of this...and are urging folks to email comments in? Sounds like a slam-fuckin-dunk to me. Stack up those emails...say "We recieved a lot of input"...then they do what the fuck they want without really seeing the FACES behind the stories. (like they care....but you get my drift)

as my good buddy always says when things go wrong "Shit the BED!"

wot a fuckin' mess...

s h

Mr.Sputnik · Dec 22, 2010

wow, the place I know that borrowed funds from the mafia got approved. faith in the system..

lilredwagon · Dec 22, 2010

"Also, the myth of the rich MMC owner has got to go. Most are in debt and have no guarantee they will be able to stay in business. However, there is the assumption that we make incredible amounts of money and this just isn't true. Running a shop and associated grow costs a lot of money for rent, supplies and manpower. The expenses are FAR higher than growing in your basement. Just like any other business, IF we are successful we will eventually be able to pay our debts back and make some money, but it's not without hard work, skill and dedication... just like any other biz. "- Posted by Dorje-
And my .02

People on the outside (the state included) really are under the impression that those of us in the MMJ industry are making bank. Hand over fist is the common misunderstanding. Well, that is just not the case. Consider the state fees associated with opening a dispensary and it's required grow facility. Thousands of dollars just for the opportunity to be considered for legal business vs $25 to open a coffee shop, and that is before you sign a lease on a property or begin to "build your business."
The black market prices are a distant memory for retail sales in legal mmj trade- Colorado is doing all it can to eliminate wholesale sales before the industry even gets started. The 70/30 rule originally looked like a minimum, now it appears to be on it's way to being min/maximum production limits. While CO is currently following a for profit model- the new regs sure seem to be pushing the profit right out of the equation- for everyone BUT the state.

Keep farmin and looking out for one another, this train isn't finished wrecking yet...

Melizzard · Dec 22, 2010

Isn't this a big, fat violation of HIPAA laws? I mean, all my medical info is confidential. Period. Except what I divulge ... so if I use marijuana for medical reasons, then why is it any of LEO's business about my medical history? So if they can access that database, they can see every document I provided ... pathology, etc.? As most of you know by now, I'm an open book, but that's not allowed ANYWHERE else ... that medical issues can be divulged. Doesn't that also violate dr/patient confidentiality? Or did we lose those rights too since MMJ is our medicine of choice?

xxoo
Mel

alpine dank · Dec 22, 2010

exactly Sky. Any new regulations that are put into place have to at least parallel the constitution. Nowhere in there does it say anything about a confidential department of health (DOR has no say here) list AND a police list. It's kinda like saying that 2+2 = 4 for some and 2+2 = 6 for others....it just doesn't jibe.

alpine dank · Dec 22, 2010

SoCo, I am glad to hear that you actually talked to Matt. Here is the problem though. Direct from the amendment to the constitution "(3) The state health agency shall create and maintain a confidential registry of patients who have applied for and are entitled to receive a registry identification card according to the criteria set forth in this subsection, effective June 1, 2001." Pretty straightforward in my book that there is only 1 registry list allowed. No grey areas. No provisions for additional lists that we the people voted on that I am aware of. The next section of the amendment does go on to say that leo shall be granted access to the state health agency's confidential registry for the purpose of verification, not a mirror list that they have unlimited access to. Again, they are breaking Constitutional law if they proceed with the proposed new reg's.

sky high · Dec 23, 2010

Sadly....>so many< of the agendas out there @ a State, county, and city/town level trapse all over Amendment 20 WITHOUT CHALLENGE......and that right there is the KICKER in all of this and the biggest change I personally see from the "old" days to the staus quo of today.

Every damn bit of this pisses me off because I feel that the CDHPE/The State of Colorado are failing ALL of us as patients by not stopping long enough while they are making changes to see the effect such changes are making. Not only that, I feel strongly that the State is falling down on their duty in INFORMING the patients WHAT IS AND WHAT ISN'T ALLOWED....FLAT OUT. There's just too much GREY AREA out there that could be cleared up by spreading a bit of basic information throughout the patient-base via the website/etc.

However...instead of informing/educating patients where the line clearly is according to the law, they seem to instead ignore what is blatantly going on until is it so HUGE they feel the only recourse for "change" is layering on more bullshit regs and laws. (aka, 1284 and SB109)

Either way, I feel far less secure in my status as a patient today than I did when I joined the program 7 years ago and thus...my incessant "complaining" on the topic.

be safe all.

wot a mess...

s h

DOR..If Anyone is Interested

DOR..If Anyone is Interested

sky high

Dorje

Mr.Sputnik

TheReleafCenter

Guest

TheReleafCenter

Guest

Dorje

sky high

sky high

TyKaycha

TyKaycha

sky high

alpine dank

SoCoMMJ

sky high

Mr.Sputnik

lilredwagon

Melizzard

alpine dank

alpine dank

sky high

DOR..If Anyone is Interested

DOR..If Anyone is Interested

sky high

Dorje

Mr.Sputnik

TheReleafCenter

Guest

TheReleafCenter

Guest

Dorje

sky high

sky high

TyKaycha

TyKaycha

sky high

alpine dank

SoCoMMJ

sky high

Mr.Sputnik

lilredwagon

Melizzard

alpine dank

alpine dank

sky high

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency