Dragons Flame Mac Dragon bx1 in Updated RDWC System

[SweetLeafGrow]

Greetings Farm Fam!

Super excited to get my 2nd RDWC grow going after all the successes and challenges from the last grow where I got my feet wet in RDWC. Special THANKS to Moe and Aquaman for all their great assistance in getting me to the finish line!

After much consideration about the strain I want to run this time, I've decided to go with some beans I got from @Trustfall during a recent sale/trade deal we made and run the Dragons Flame Mac Dragon bx1.

I got one of these seeds started in a Rapid Rooter and she is doing OK. A bit stretchy, I need to work on my seedling skills! Anyhow, roots are showing from the bottom of the Rapid Rooter and I figure it's almost time to get her in the RDWC system and time to rock and roll.

Since I am going into new territory here, I've done a bit of reading and from what I can decipher, this chart would be a good guide for nutrient levels throughout the grow.

I had cleaned out my system last week really well with H2O2 but decided to do one more H2O2 cleanse and then get the system filled, nutes and Hydroguard added, pH to 5.8 and let it run for a day or two before I introduce the seedling.

I've made some alterations to my RDWC to get LOTS more water into the system. Thanks to @Moe.Red for 3D printing this cool sleeve that will allow me to use a 3.75" net pot, which in turn will allow me to get almost twice as much water in the system as before. I filled everything this morning, added what H2O2 I have left (about a quart) and the system is now holding between 13 and 14 gallons, will get a more accurate reading on that once I fill it for the last time before adding nutes and such.

So my plan is, after finishing the final cleaning, add back in RO water to fill the system to 1" below the bottom of the net pot. Then prepare the water as follows per the GH chart above for LIGHT FEEDING-

Total Res Volume ~13 gallons

Step 1. Add 2.5 ml Tree Trunk silica formula per gallon for a total of 32.5 ml.
Step 2. pH to 6.1 and let stabilize. Adjust as necessary.
Step 3. Add 65 ml cal/mag to res.
Step 4. Add 13 ml enzymes to res.
Step 5. Add GH brown at the rate of 3.6 ml per gallon to res for a total of 46.8 ml.
Step 5. Add GH green at the rate of 3.4 ml per gallon to res for a total of 44.2 ml.
Step 7. Add GH pink at the rate of 2.6 ml per gallon to res for a total of 33.8 ml.
Step 8. Ph to final target of 5.8.
Step 9. Add Hydroguard at the rate of 2 ml per gallon for a total of 26 ml.

Final PPM should rest between 400-500 from what I can tell. Does anyone think this is too strong for young seedlings?

I will let this run for a couple of days and then introduce the seedling. I guess one question I would have is the actual placement of the Rapid Rooter plug, should I put a layer of hydroton on the bottom of the net pot and then place the plug on top of that and then fill the basket the rest of the way up with hydroton? I guess the alternative would be to place it directly on the bottom of the net pot. Also, I had seen where that tap root will get quite large and so I am wondering if I need to cut a bit of that net pot out on the bottom to allow that tap root to be unrestricted?

OK, off to the races....here we go!

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

So I realized I was looking at the wrong GH chart. Here is the one I should be looking at-

I thought that might be too much PPM for seedlings so I figured out I had the wrong chart. This one I think is right and below are the adjusted nutrient levels for seedlings.

Total Res Volume ~13 gallons

Step 1. Add 2.5 ml Tree Trunk silica formula per gallon for a total of 32.5 ml.
Step 2. pH to 6.1 and let stabilize. Adjust as necessary.
Step 3. Add 65 ml cal/mag to res.
Step 4. Add 13 ml enzymes to res.
Step 5. Add GH brown at the rate of 1.8 ml per gallon to res for a total of 23.4 ml.
Step 5. Add GH green at the rate of 1.8 ml per gallon to res for a total of 23.4 ml.
Step 7. Add GH pink at the rate of 1.8 ml per gallon to res for a total of 23.4 ml.
Step 8. Ph to final target of 5.8.
Step 9. Add Hydroguard at the rate of 2 ml per gallon for a total of 26 ml.

Final PPM 200-300.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Had a quick question @Aqua Man and @Moe.Red if you guys are around- I am getting ready to charge the system with nutes and such and one thing I noticed as I was about to add the Tree Trunk silica additive was that there are noticeable particles in the liquid and I wondered if it went bad or something. I noticed it because as I was filling my pipette, the small chunks were plugging it up. Once I got it to fill partially, I could see a bunch of crap in there. Is this what they call precipitation? I tried shaking the bottle a few times and it seemed like they broke up a bit and mixed back in.

Anyhow, not sure what is going on there and didn't want to waste a bunch of RO water and nutes if there is something awry with this additive.

 

[Aqua Man]

Had a quick question @Aqua Man and @Moe.Red if you guys are around- I am getting ready to charge the system with nutes and such and one thing I noticed as I was about to add the Tree Trunk silica additive was that there are noticeable particles in the liquid and I wondered if it went bad or something. I noticed it because as I was filling my pipette, the small chunks were plugging it up. Once I got it to fill partially, I could see a bunch of crap in there. Is this what they call precipitation? I tried shaking the bottle a few times and it seemed like they broke up a bit and mixed back in.

Anyhow, not sure what is going on there and didn't want to waste a bunch of RO water and nutes if there is something awry with this additive.

Yeah you want to mix that first and let it mix reallly well before adding anything else. Then PH adjust down before adding other nutrients.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Thanks Bro!

 

[Aqua Man]

If adding to your system after mix thoroughly with RO forst and then slowly add the mixture to the system. But ph down before adding

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

OK, so I got everything in place I think, but am wondering a few things.

GH says my ppm should be 200-300 for seedlings. Well enough. My question is, does this ppm count just the nutrients alone?

I'm starting out with RO water about 20 ppm or so. After cleaning out the buckets and everything, adding fresh RO water, my ppm was about 40 so I'm guessing there was a slight bit of something still in there after cleaning. I took all the water pumps apart and cleaned them and ran fresh water and h2O2 twice, then two trips of just fresh water so I figure that was a fairly good cleaning. Only other thing I can think of is to take everything apart and clean that way but I did not think that necessary.

Anyhow, after adding the silica buffer and cal/mag the ppms were bumped up to 320, which is higher than GH feeding schedule. My guess is that number of 200-300 is nutrients ppm only and not any other additives. So I went with it and added the GH line at previously mentioned rates, a slight ph up, and then added the Hydroguard. Final ppm is sitting at 550, ph 5.8. That would leave a ppm of the nutrients alone at 230, which I would think would be a good starting place for this young seedling.

I dunno, I'm still learning but I do think this gets me on the right track to introduce this young lady to her new home

 

[Aqua Man]

OK, so I got everything in place I think, but am wondering a few things.

GH says my ppm should be 200-300 for seedlings. Well enough. My question is, does this ppm count just the nutrients alone?

I'm starting out with RO water about 20 ppm or so. After cleaning out the buckets and everything, adding fresh RO water, my ppm was about 40 so I'm guessing there was a slight bit of something still in there after cleaning. I took all the water pumps apart and cleaned them and ran fresh water and h2O2 twice, then two trips of just fresh water so I figure that was a fairly good cleaning. Only other thing I can think of is to take everything apart and clean that way but I did not think that necessary.

Anyhow, after adding the silica buffer and cal/mag the ppms were bumped up to 320, which is higher than GH feeding schedule. My guess is that number of 200-300 is nutrients ppm only and not any other additives. So I went with it and added the GH line at previously mentioned rates, a slight ph up, and then added the Hydroguard. Final ppm is sitting at 550, ph 5.8. That would leave a ppm of the nutrients alone at 230, which I would think would be a good starting place for this young seedling.

I dunno, I'm still learning but I do think this gets me on the right track to introduce this young lady to her new home

200-300 on top of whatever your source water and silica add

 

[Moe.Red]

Sorry I'm late.

Looks like the adaptor does not quite fit into the hole? Like the ribs are holding it up? Too big?

 

[ImpulsiveGrower]

I just chopped one of these down lol. Keep crushing

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Looks like the adaptor does not quite fit into the hole? Like the ribs are holding it up? Too big?

Yea, it was a tad bit too big on that lip that is on the underside . Was an easy fix, I just took a pair of tin snips and cut about 1/8" off the lid all the way around and now it fits nice and snug. Thanks again for making that for me, good stuff bro.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

So, got up this morning and everything in the system was fairly stable. Ph had risen to 6.1, ph'ed it down to 5.8 with 4 ml of PH Down. I am thinking the drift up is normal and the opposite of the ph swings down that I was having on my first grow. Anyhow, not too bad so I figured I would go ahead and get the young lady in the system and go for it. When I filled everything yesterday, the more accurate total of water volume is at 14 gallons! Super stoked about that as it's got almost 2x the amount of water now than before with the simple addition of the 4" net pot.

 

[Moe.Red]

yes I typically see a slow increase in PH in a healthy system. You must be doing something right.

IMO the PPM is a little high right now, keep an eye on how they react. Some seedlings do well at higher nute levels, others show signs of deterioration. Often diagnosed as light stress. And backing off the light helps this because is reduces leaf temp, slowing respiration, resulting in less nutes taken up. But what you are really doing is taking things out of range to compensate for another setpoint, and slowing overall growth.

Again, IMO seedlings at this stage are putting a lot of energy into root growth. To stimulate this, you need a fair amount of water demand up top via respiration. Ultimately the energy for that comes from the lights. So backing off the light slows things down. This is one of the benefits of running hydro like this - being able to create the perfect conditions quickly. Make adjustments quickly. Not fighting CEC. So your knobs to tune this grow are right at your fingertips, you just gotta watch those babies like a hawk and make sure your settings remain in the middle of the fairway.

These are the spots to watch closely for any changes.

 

[Moe.Red]

What do you expect from Dragons Flame Mac Dragon bx1?

Is this a short plant? I didn't look up the genetics. Stable or several phenos with these seeds?

 

[Madmax]

Theres 4 phenotypes in my grow so far possibly 5 out of the 7 with one standout yieldwise.the others are par on yield but plenty of frost and terps ,sweet berry like smell with finger rub on sugar leaves.all very short 25-30"range with on average 14-18 branches.short stretch but i topped these very early in flower.close- medium node spacing etc..

 

[Moe.Red]

Perfect. A short fat plant will work perfect for his space.

 

[Madmax]

Fingers crossed he gets this pheno.

 

[Moe.Red]

Fingers crossed he gets this pheno.View attachment 1288145

Nice resin rails there. I'm a bit jelly

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

yes I typically see a slow increase in PH in a healthy system. You must be doing something right.

IMO the PPM is a little high right now, keep an eye on how they react. Some seedlings do well at higher nute levels, others show signs of deterioration. Often diagnosed as light stress. And backing off the light helps this because is reduces leaf temp, slowing respiration, resulting in less nutes taken up. But what you are really doing is taking things out of range to compensate for another setpoint, and slowing overall growth.

Again, IMO seedlings at this stage are putting a lot of energy into root growth. To stimulate this, you need a fair amount of water demand up top via respiration. Ultimately the energy for that comes from the lights. So backing off the light slows things down. This is one of the benefits of running hydro like this - being able to create the perfect conditions quickly. Make adjustments quickly. Not fighting CEC. So your knobs to tune this grow are right at your fingertips, you just gotta watch those babies like a hawk and make sure your settings remain in the middle of the fairway.

These are the spots to watch closely for any changes.

View attachment 1288134

Yes, I also thought the ppm was a bit high. In the beginning after adding the RO water the ppms were about 40 so I figure there was a small amount of gunk somewhere despite what I thought a pretty good cleaning. Adding the buffer and the cal/mag brought everything up to ~320 before I added any nutes. Doing the math, the nutes constituted about 230 ppm.

I currently have the SE3000 at 24" above @ 30%. I will definitely watch very closely. I am imagining if I see any negative signs the solution would be to pull enough res water out and replace it with RO to dilute things down some, perhaps get it down to that 200 range. I'd like to keep things in range without robbing Peter to pay Paul. Alternately I can raise the light if you think that the better alternative.

What do you expect from Dragons Flame Mac Dragon bx1?

Is this a short plant? I didn't look up the genetics. Stable or several phenos with these seeds?

Thanks for chiming in Max, who knows more about this strain than I do. I have been watching Max's grow and looking at some other DF grows and wanted to give these very reputable folks a try.

 

[Madmax]

I think jeff mentioned she is a light feeder aswell .i havnt gone over 570ppm with jeffs gear..looking at the bud its not underfed..but id rather b underfeeding than over..very easy to correct underfeeding ,not so over..