@delae632 That white bubba DUD looks chunkier than the frostier branch next to it! If given time would that nug have sugared up you think? Weird that the dud doesn't have the glands but even weirder it's chunkier than your non DUD...

Ill ask again:

@DowNwithDirT
@We Solidarity
@delae632
@true grit

Did you guys ever spray the shit out of your veg plants with hardcore miticides?

I did, once when I took over this new place. It was a disaster and I had to. It is possible that chemicals can cause these mutations.

Delae, I have gotten dudding like what you show on some of those pics on my kosher kush once and I am 99% sure it was from heat stress. Hairy fuckin buds with less frost and little smell.

I used forbid about 2 yrs ago. Otherwise nothing

Capulator said:

Curious:

Have you guys sprayed forbid or other miticides on your plants before they dudded?

Sorry for all the posts in a row.

Click to expand...

Mine get avid, floramite, and forbid every 10 days in veg, has been this way for years...

I had a shishkaberry that i grew for several years before it dudded out entirely. one time it hermied (light above it would cycle on and off for about a week before we noticed the light issue) none the less, we had seeds from shishkaberry self cross. within a year i lost the original strain as well as the cross. but before we lost it i was getting growth just like the pictures above. she changed and didn't produce anywhere near the thc. we had the strain tested and the thc content had dropped from 19 down to about 5. had to dump the entire thing and we had called in genetic drift. was a loss as the first few months of runs on that plant produced beer can diameter cola's. i was also growing at that time in a co-op with 5 other growers. the warehouse was an absolute disaster as not everybody had the financial where with all to keep their rooms right.

over the past 7 years i recall loosing

Chemdog D
larry og
Chemdog #4
fire og - raskals cut
shishkaberry

cookies
true og
ghost
sfv
diagonal
waltz
gg4
dubtech
ecsd and a few others have all shown this.....

no fucking way in hell this is genetic drift.

Capulator said:

Ill ask again:

@DowNwithDirT
@We Solidarity
@delae632
@true grit

Did you guys ever spray the shit out of your veg plants with hardcore miticides?

I did, once when I took over this new place. It was a disaster and I had to. It is possible that chemicals can cause these mutations.

Delae, I have gotten dudding like what you show on some of those pics on my kosher kush once and I am 99% sure it was from heat stress. Hairy fuckin buds with less frost and little smell.

Click to expand...

Definitely a consideration. I'm currently reading an article in Acres, USA about GMO feeds and the problems they're causing for ranchers and anyone who breeds meat animals. It seems that glyphosate isn't just good at killing herbaceous organisms, it also kills many soil microbes. One of the soil microbes it *doesn't* kill is Fusarium. The first farmer featured in the article had to divest his entire sow/gilt herd because they stopped breeding/reproducing, and that was traced to a mycotoxin. So, these are some more dots for you to play around with.

I don't use stuff like miticides, but then I'm not sure I've gotten fully dudded plants after looking at delae's pix, either.

toquer said:

Mine get avid, floramite, and forbid every 10 days in veg, has been this way for years...

Click to expand...

Brother, I know you're a great grower, I've seen your photos. But you do know that you're not supposed to use these products in this manner, yes? All three products are single-site mode of action miticides, none should be used more than twice in a given plant's lifetime, all are proven to cause resistance in mites.

Just wanted to put that out there. :)

@Capulator I used avid once that's about it. As far as what had been done to the genetic before I had it idk, I'd say everything's been nuked at sometime in its life by now

drknockbootz said:

@delae632 I think it has to do with the health of the moms and only selecting your most vigorous cuts no imperfections or they get tossed. I see the vigor of my moms slowly fading. This run I took 50 cuts of my snowdawg I will pick 6 of the best and use those for my moms. Another thing i notice is when i see uniformity in the roots, leaves, and overall vigor that seems to be a good indicator of a healthy mom and proper cloning conditions.

Click to expand...

While I agree that mother health is extremely important as well as selecting cuts from a larger population than you need, it hasn't proven to make a huge difference in my experience. Even when my mothers are tits I still get duds. I took 200 cuts for my current run in hopes of using the best 80. I thought I'd easily be able to thwart Dudzilla with those numbers but i was wrong. So far I can spot 6 or 7 duds in the plants that are being run.

My mother health is an issue from time to time and I believe it's from whatever this issue is..I've even lost mothers due to it. I try to cycle them regularly to help but like I said, even the healthiest mother has thrown out dud clones. It's a total crap shoot.

I currently have one of a duplicate of every strain I have outdoors. I'm hoping to cook some of this shit out of them and to restore some vigor over the summer. Then I'll take new cuts and ditch the host plants and older mothers. I'm praying that this helps...even if a little bit.

DowNwithDirT said:

@delae632 your pics are dead on for what we have going on over here.

some serious monsanto genetic modification esq shit going down.

Weeks ago all the talk was about fusarium. This just sucks

Click to expand...

It's scary shit for sure....especially since not ONE single person knows what the hell it is.

baba G said:

@delae632 That white bubba DUD looks chunkier than the frostier branch next to it! If given time would that nug have sugared up you think? Weird that the dud doesn't have the glands but even weirder it's chunkier than your non DUD...

Click to expand...

That's one of things that can happen with the duds baba. The buds actually get bigger. lol Mostly they're smaller and larfy but sometimes they smash the healthy stuff. Once you see it there's no chance of it frosting up. The calyxes are super tiny and don't swell like normal plants. I let the Tahoe and WiFi in my pics go just under 100 days in hopes of salvaging that crop....just didn't happen and I ended up with $500 potatoes that took me a year to off. I've even tried to blast the stuff....don't waste your time with that either. lol The yield on concentrates is shockingly low and the shit smells and tastes like burnt popcorn kernels. I've tried to do what I can with the stuff but at the end of the day...no matter how bad it hurts...all dud material is simply compost.

Capulator said:

Ill ask again:

@DowNwithDirT
@We Solidarity
@delae632
@true grit

Did you guys ever spray the shit out of your veg plants with hardcore miticides?

I did, once when I took over this new place. It was a disaster and I had to. It is possible that chemicals can cause these mutations.

Delae, I have gotten dudding like what you show on some of those pics on my kosher kush once and I am 99% sure it was from heat stress. Hairy fuckin buds with less frost and little smell.

Click to expand...

I have sprayed with the nasties but it is not a regular thing. Honestly I don't even spray preventatively really, just when there's a problem, which is rare. One thing I do consistently is set off an attain bomb as flip.

It's most definitely not heat but the effects do look very similar. I've got 2 tons of ac in a 4 lighter so it stays about 74 in there. I did have an ac start to fail on me several runs back and the higher heat definitely resulted in a higher dud ratio. It really seems like some kind of stress reaction...like heat, but its total random...at least from what I've experienced.

fusarium is the most likely culprit of all .

From some locals in our area........

I sent a sample to the lab as well and tested positive for fusarium oxysporum. Yields had dropped 50% and it took me a couple years to figure out exactly what was causing this. Rarely have I had plants wilt, but the pathogen creates symptoms that resemble nitrogen toxicity with leaf curl, and magnesium deficiency with purple stems and odd looking growth. Fan leaves get small and more narrow, especially once more pk is added in flower. We are constantly cleaning everything with Physan 20, drenches with subdue maxx/heritage, using the root and foilar pack from Og Bio War, and this pathogen doesn't seem to go away. RH has to be 60%+ or plants will not perform at all. Touring many grows in Colorado I see all the signs of it. Feel that it will be a huge issue soon for many people. I can track the fusarium back to some cuts and feel it took 6-8 months before it started effecting me. Two years later and it's becoming difficult to produce a pound a light. When I start new genetics they perform 1-2 rounds and then become sick. Now I just need to figure out how to co-exist with it because it's at multiple locations and we take lots of precautions to avoid cross contamination.


I've only had a few plants wilt in a few years. Major signs are around week 3, once PK starts to be increased. That added stress makes the plant look unhealthy with deficiencies and yellowing. Also get the pink stems like P or mag deficiency. If you ever see a plant where all the leaves are small and same size throughout the plant is a sign. When you harvest look at crown, you'll see the pathogen entering the plant through the root system and into the plant leaving a brown ring.

Is this only happening with indoor plants or has anyone experienced/reported this phenomenon with outdoor plants?

Capulator said:

Ill ask again:

@DowNwithDirT
@We Solidarity
@delae632
@true grit

Did you guys ever spray the shit out of your veg plants with hardcore miticides?

I did, once when I took over this new place. It was a disaster and I had to. It is possible that chemicals can cause these mutations.

Delae, I have gotten dudding like what you show on some of those pics on my kosher kush once and I am 99% sure it was from heat stress. Hairy fuckin buds with less frost and little smell.

Click to expand...

Nope i prefer not to use systemics. Feel it weakens your plants ability to fight shit off. But again i haven't had a full dud in flower in about 4 runs now, the only time I've seen it in flower was 1 single branch last run that didn't get any light/was obviously stressed. Root mass was perfectly healthy and plant produced awesome nugs besides that branch.

Buncha speculation on what it is, guess ill hold off til we get some test results!

Anyone having this problem living around a lot of fracking drill wells? In my County, Weld County, the air quality here was found to have 5 times the methane and benzene acceptable for humans, wildlife, and AG recently in an independent air quality study. Was a front page story on the Greeley Tribune recently. So who knows what's in the water your pumping through your soil, coco, or hydro set up. I would want to be having my water source tested also I think if you are around a lot of fracking wells in your community or wherever you living and growing. I got neighbors who can light their faucet tap water with a Bic lighter out here in Weld County. So I water and make feed with store bought water for the last 2 years. Do not use my tap water. Do not have a "Dud" problem with any variety's I'm running either. I'm notorious for being an idjit as a scientist or botanical health evaluator so my 2 cents might not be even worth 2 cents on this problem so many of you are dealing with.
Bluzboy

Bluzboy said:

I'm notorious for being an idjit as a scientist or botanical health evaluator so my 2 cents might not be even worth 2 cents on this problem so many of you are dealing with.
Bluzboy

Click to expand...

Any & all info is good info when nobody knows what the hell were dealing with!!

MakinGoo said:

Any & all info is good info when nobody knows what the hell were dealing with!!

Click to expand...

Thanks Making Goo I think the extraordinary unregulated excess in drill fracking/fracking wells in residential, community, and AG areas without any competent unbiased scientific and health professional over site of any kind is a good reason to look at what I am saying if you are having this problem and you got wells all around you like I do. I got wells less than 300 feet from my house. In Weld County, the County Commisioners gave oil and gas permission to drill within 150 feet of any residence or building. I find that to be beyond inane and an act of insanity on the part of the GOP "creationism is real and Rush Lumbaugh is God's prophet" political culture that dominates the eastern plains in Colorado. But you cannot make people believe in facts and actual science if they are operating on a essentially 6th grade education level in thinking abilities and IQ which is norm out here in frackingville Weld or further east.
Bluzboy

Bluzboy said:

Anyone having this problem living around a lot of fracking drill wells? In my County, Weld County, the air quality here was found to have 5 times the methane and benzene acceptable for humans, wildlife, and AG recently in an independent air quality study. Was a front page story on the Greeley Tribune recently. So who knows what's in the water your pumping through your soil, coco, or hydro set up. I would want to be having my water source tested also I think if you are around a lot of fracking wells in your community or wherever you living and growing. I got neighbors who can light their faucet tap water with a Bic lighter out here in Weld County. So I water and make feed with store bought water for the last 2 years. Do not use my tap water. Do not have a "Dud" problem with any variety's I'm running either. I'm notorious for being an idjit as a scientist or botanical health evaluator so my 2 cents might not be even worth 2 cents on this problem so many of you are dealing with.
Bluzboy

Click to expand...

What about running RO? Does that help with your water quality? Btw thats horrible man, sorry to hear that. bitchslap those county commissioners!

I just drink, feed and water my garden, and cook with store bought water in jugs. Shower/bathe in the crap coming out of the faucet cause I have no choice but to. My 4 dogs get and drink bottled water only also.
Never tried running a filtration or bothered since I do not know nor do the oil and gas companies release what the chemicals are and so how would you know what to filter out and maybe you cannot filter it out of the water which is why oil and gas will not reveal what is in the high pressure fracking fluid they use nor do they want to talk about the long term results or effects are or will be after pumping millions of gallons of frack well waste water back in the hole and sealing it up when they are done with the drill sites. So, earth quakes like in east texas and Oklahoma that have been becoming more frequent from fracking is sure to be on the agenda for eastern Colorado in the near future.
Bluzboy

Ya thats just crazy/scary.

true grit said:

Ya thats just crazy/scary.

Click to expand...

I think its going to lead to a lot of health, air, and soil contamination in the future for everybody so who knows, this "Dud" pathogen or systemic problem in peoples plants could easily be traced back to fracking drilling chemicals as anything else especially if you are living around a lot of drilling or where drilling has been and got this problem.
Have a great Memorial Day weekend True Grit!. And while barbecuing or levitating, remember to give a moment of thanks and respect to all the guys and gals who wore a uniform and did not get to come home alive for the party we all get to have this weekend buddy.
Bluzboy

I relized one of my WIFI moms is starting to do the dud look on the cuts I was just about to take. Im going to take and mark them, turn then into teens and as long as they still look like dud ( which isn't hard to mis) and of to the local lab to have it tested. Fukin sit is annoying and very scary, as I said earlier in this thread, it completely took out a few rather large crops in a row. Lost alota cash and a house cause of it. Very Scary ( I also think the gov is trying to eradicate us so once it goes legal in cali they can swoop in the industry leaving the lil guyz with nothing). Does anybody remember back in the mid to late 1990z when Canada was trying to do there own government grows underground (in huge man made caverns unger ground) trying to corner the med industry. If I remember correctly that's where the MK ultra came from ( its a known gov created strain) anyways this powder shit started showing upon everybodys indoor plant and low and behold it was PM (powder mildow). Fun cause it got traced back to the MK Ultra clones that magicly made outa there labs and into the hands of growers in Canada and then made its way over here. Funny cause the dude that taught me how to grow got ahold of the MK and then gave it to me and we both had pm with in weeks of flowering. If you've evr seen PM take over a room it is devastation.

Also I haven't used avid, forbid, E20or anything other than merit in probably 5+ years. The merit maybe twice a year cause of fungas nats and thripes . Im a soil guy so that come with the territory.