Dudded, Stunted, and Runted plants...

toquer · May 22, 2014

Seamaiden said:
All three products are single-site mode of action miticides, none should be used more than twice in a given plant's lifetime, all are proven to cause resistance in mites.

Just wanted to put that out there. :)

I hear ya loud and clear on that. I don't like using them but it's very carefully timed. They don't get it too young and since the application of one back to the original one is 30 days apart on a minimum; as I try to rotate azamax and axatrol too. Most plants don't live long enough in veg to have gotten through the cycle more than once.
And in flower they go a minimum of 60 days, most go to 70. All test results show the girls being clean. We are overly cautious on this. Hell I smoke the stuff too!

It's all rather preventative from having been at the previous co-op. I wish I still had the pictures of mites going through the electrical outlet box with webbing into the other room and onto the next plants. They traveled over a foot to get to new fresh plants.
Our room in that building was fine because of the continual use of systemics or maybe because there were easier plants to eat.

Capulator · May 22, 2014

Aladeen OG said:
Dud vs non dud gsc, I'll let you guess which is which. Heh.
View attachment 407664
View attachment 407665

This looks more like cookie crumbs to me. Too much light/too much food for cookies fucks them up.

Aladeen OG · May 23, 2014

w just a single branch like that? they are under 600's, i doubt too much light, last feed was 1.5... did have boost though

grower4life · May 23, 2014

Sorry aladeen me and baba G where talking back and forth and I didn't put his name on it , I think u thought I was talking to u wit the Dead horse comment YO lol, anyways I veg under a 8tube t5 wile in 4x4 pots then a step up to 1 gall pots then into 5 gall goes or beds at that point there under 600 and it doesn't seem to cause any issues, I can tell the dud plants pretty much when I plant in 4x4 pots so I make them with a plant tag that says (weird ) and 9 out 10 times its a dud. In the beds I gota b super carefull cause if I slip I gota rip put valuable realistate kinda, alil training in the trellis and I fill it in but still at 4 to 5 oz per plant that shit hurts if its more than 1or 2,

By the way baba G I'm not here to bicker I wana learn how to cure this prob 2. This dud shit irritates me to no end, peace brother

true grit · May 23, 2014

Aladeen OG said:
w just a single branch like that? they are under 600's, i doubt too much light, last feed was 1.5... did have boost though

Possibly but that does look like the crumbs some people get vs. dud branch. Can happen with 600's too, it generally a proximity issue with lighting.

Heres my update:
@EveryOneSmokes - I do think its a cloning issue. Ive been waiting to see more growth on a few before calling dud, but officially dropped the hammer on some yesterday. My homie gave me some snips, afterwards said he was having some issues with the mom in flower and culled it. Low and behold both snips and the Tahoe that rooted right next to them (all were good looking cuts) both dudded. Also appears that maybe another plant or two that rooted in the same tray did the same. Could be from the White that was struggling or from one the dud Faceoff cuts i was trying to root at same time...either way they were in the same tray, and funny how its only the genetics we are talking about being susceptible....Tahoe and White and other OGs. Rest of tray that rooted at same time are looking healthy. I am watching 1-2 others but thats just me being paranoid. Either way- it was only that tray, and none so far since. Interesting. Needless to say Faceoff has been tossed and so were the others. Hopefully that helps the issue.

nightmarecreature · May 23, 2014

I'm working on Tissue Cultures. It can bring back vigor and yield to old cuts. I'm using a technique that can eliminate viruses and pathegons from plants. I've had success with tissue cultures before but this process is different and more complicated.

Hopefully this can shed some clues as to what is going on. This is a long process, I have several people waiting to test the cultures out to see if it fixes the dudding problem.

true grit · May 23, 2014

keep us posted. i have a friend hoping to do the same sometime this year, hoping it fixes any issues like that as well.

connoisseurde420 · May 23, 2014

I have similar experiences as Alot you. Og and non og strains. I thought it was stress in either mom, cloning process, or veg stress. some whole plants, some just branches. tmv didnt cross my mind. Would be nice to see a cure..

Bluzboy · May 23, 2014

What if its a DNA/RNA problem that has been bred into some strains from overbreeding, you know , cousin variety X cousin variety , Mom strain X son strain , Dad variety x Niece variety, etc...? That could be the problem. This could be something that is a genetic defect that slipped into the OG gene pool and rears it head on some variety's or strains, and not others depending on if the "Dud' gene is dominant. Anybody think of that? Tobacco Maize Virus is a nightmare too and that travels with the cut into your garden and other gardens and spreads to your other plants like bird flu.
Bluzboy

Bluzboy · May 23, 2014

Ths

CHINOOK said:
I think your more likely on to something then it being tmv in all these dif gardens.but heres some bad info on tmv.
Control
Unlike fungicidal chemicals used to control fungal diseases, to date there are no efficient chemical treatments that protect plant parts from virus infection. Additionally, there are no known chemical treatments used under field conditions that eliminate viral infections from plant tissues once they do occur. Practically speaking, plants infected by viruses remain so. Thus, control of tobacco mosaic virus is primarily focused on reducing and eliminating sources of the virus and limiting the spread by insects. Tobacco mosaic virus is the most persistent plant virus known. It has been known to survive up to 50 years in dried plant parts. Therefore, sanitation is the single most important practice in controlling tobacco mosaic virus.
you can read the whole study here
its a pretty reliable source I use for general garden questions sometimes.but tmv would not be limited or worse in indoor gardens from what I have read so far.sure hope it doesn't get my train wreck babies.

That's a great gardening info site Chinook. Thanks for the heads up on that site. Put it in my faves for easy access too.
Bluzboy

MakinGoo · May 23, 2014

I know my True OG shows the clasic TMV on leafs in veg.. True OG I have gots TMV... I juss up my calmag & nutes & it always fixes the leaf symptoms.... my True OG alwYs comes out DANK & has NEVER duded on me..
I got 1 TMV leaf on my True OG rite now.. im using new nutes & cut out calmag so im juss trying 2 figure her out again with new nutes.. id guess if I add more base this run will b fire again with no dud action on my true og.. every run true og will spit out some funky TMV hook camouflage yellow/green leafs but wont dud

true grit · May 23, 2014

@DowNwithDirT and @We Solidarity - How are your water sources? RO aside, is your local water good quality?

MakinGoo · May 23, 2014

I dont know bout u CO guys but here in Cali we got a drought & were pulling from the bottoms of every water source..

Bluzboy · May 23, 2014

We got good snow pack this year but this State, Colorado, has faced and faces a lot of water shortage problems for AG on the eastern plains in the forth coming future. Its a big issue and the fighting and litigation over water rights here in Colorado is on going as I type. The snow pack has been running at a deficit for years so water is becoming a larger issue on the front and back range every year with AG producers, cities, and especially now since the oil and gas industry is competing with AG producers/farmers/ranchers as well as urban expansion along the Front Range is for the limited finite water available in any given year. Colorado is not in the dire situation that California is facing currently yet but its not that far down the road that here they have the same issues as you have now in Cali in regards to water shortages and drought.
Bluzboy

DowNwithDirT · May 23, 2014

Bluzboy said:
What if its a DNA/RNA problem that has been bred into some strains from overbreeding, you know , cousin variety X cousin variety , Mom strain X son strain , Dad variety x Niece variety, etc...? That could be the problem. This could be something that is a genetic defect that slipped into the OG gene pool and rears it head on some variety's or strains, and not others depending on if the "Dud' gene is dominant. Anybody think of that? Tobacco Maize Virus is a nightmare too and that travels with the cut into your garden and other gardens and spreads to your other plants like bird flu.
Bluzboy

it isnt a breeding thing or even dna/rna altering

the fact is fusarium attacks the plant by overloading if with specific homones and acids. It attacks the cell walls, essentially taking all our prized genetics and ripping them down to their main frame as a 5% thc yielding hemp plant.

It is not gentic drift
It is not TMV
And it is not permanent

DowNwithDirT · May 23, 2014

me and @We Solidarity are on the same water @true grit

120 ppm or .2 ec out the tap.

ilaughlast · May 23, 2014

i have a theory i would like to test.
freshly divided primordial undifferentiated apical meristem cells as they emerge are free from the host plants viruses in most cases.
these cells as they emerge are said to be free of the host plants pathogens for dozens of hours.
in strawberry nursery stock, it is the standard for clearing viruses and other pathogens to perform a special type of in vitro tissue culture called MICROtip culture.
you may be familiar with MACROtip tissue culture and have likely seen the home tissue culture kits for sale online.
this is not quite the same however very similar. this requires a very small sample (<1mm) of just the emerging cells of the meristem. it is usually done by someone with practice in this precision cut done under at least 80x magnification. the explant is then sterilized and placed in culture in a medium containing shoot induction hormones in a petri dish much like a macrotip culture. the incubation time is much longer and is therefore much more susceptible to infection/contamination of petris. while this is fairly impractical at home it can be done in a lab setting by a trained tech with the right equipment and knowledge of protocols.
i think if this is a pathogen from bms be it viral fungal bacterial etc it could be cleared and resume regular growth given it is reintroduced to a clean environment. i am currently trying to locate a confirmed dud by a reliable source with an intimate knowledge of the syndrome on which i can conduct this experiment and feel confident im working with the correct problem and not a new growers poor growing style instead of the actual duds.

thoughts?

obsoul33t · May 23, 2014

fussarium oxysporum was specifically developed to eradicate drug crops .. i don't have the links on this computer but it was developed in the 60's at a biotech lab in montana and then in the 70's uc berkeley reported success in the mass production of fussarium oxysporum for an engineered bio-weapon against drug crops.. fast forward to modern times uc santa cruz professor examines chemtrail content and reports weaponized fussarium oxysporum as a part of the spray content.. effect to californias food production expected to top a 30% reduction says uc santa cruz professor.
my prediction is that we will see this problem get far worse and then gmo fussarium resistant cannabis wont be far behind .... wait until a few huge investors lose a few 1000 light grows they will beg for gmo'ed weed ...

i have seen this problem for nearly 20 years it is not new but it is spreading faster because of the practice of trading cuts and the shear number of green rushers ...

obsoul33t · May 23, 2014

very toug

ilaughlast said:
i have a theory i would like to test.
freshly divided primordial undifferentiated apical meristem cells as they emerge are free from the host plants viruses in most cases.
these cells as they emerge are said to be free of the host plants pathogens for dozens of hours.
in strawberry nursery stock, it is the standard for clearing viruses and other pathogens to perform a special type of in vitro tissue culture called MICROtip culture.
you may be familiar with MACROtip tissue culture and have likely seen the home tissue culture kits for sale online.
this is not quite the same however very similar. this requires a very small sample (<1mm) of just the emerging cells of the meristem. it is usually done by someone with practice in this precision cut done under at least 80x magnification. the explant is then sterilized and placed in culture in a medium containing shoot induction hormones in a petri dish much like a macrotip culture. the incubation time is much longer and is therefore much more susceptible to infection/contamination of petris. while this is fairly impractical at home it can be done in a lab setting by a trained tech with the right equipment and knowledge of protocols.
i think if this is a pathogen from bms be it viral fungal bacterial etc it could be cleared and resume regular growth given it is reintroduced to a clean environment. i am currently trying to locate a confirmed dud by a reliable source with an intimate knowledge of the syndrome on which i can conduct this experiment and feel confident im working with the correct problem and not a new growers poor growing style instead of the actual duds.

thoughts?

very tough if not impossible for the hobby grower to do ... and anyone with the capital to pull it off isn't going to be passing the clean plant stock out ..
but even if you cleanup the plant stock it can still be reinfected very easily..

ilaughlast · May 23, 2014

true but it would lend us a clue as to how to solve this probl;em in cultivars that would otherwise be lost.

Dudded, Stunted, and Runted plants...

Dudded, Stunted, and Runted plants...

toquer

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

Aladeen OG

grower4life

true grit

nightmarecreature

true grit

connoisseurde420

Bluzboy

Bluzboy

MakinGoo

true grit

MakinGoo

Bluzboy

DowNwithDirT

DowNwithDirT

ilaughlast

obsoul33t

IBL

obsoul33t

IBL

ilaughlast

Dudded, Stunted, and Runted plants...

Dudded, Stunted, and Runted plants...

toquer

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

Aladeen OG

grower4life

true grit

nightmarecreature

true grit

connoisseurde420

Bluzboy

Bluzboy

MakinGoo

true grit

MakinGoo

Bluzboy

DowNwithDirT

DowNwithDirT

ilaughlast

obsoul33t

IBL

obsoul33t

IBL

ilaughlast

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