Dwc woes - constant failure

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SweetLeafGrow

SweetLeafGrow

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I was using AN Sensi A & B that round with hydroguard. Everything was fine in the beginning, until I added B52 (which I believe is kelp based, but they claim it's supposed to be DWC friendly). Within 8 hours of adding B52, the entire system slimed horribly - and I could never get rid of it. I could only 'keep it in check' by cleaning everything once a week in veg.

Once I flipped her, I used Bud Candy after reading such great things and the problem intensified 10x - the slime was horrible every time I used that stuff - it was from that point forward that I was having to clean and soak everything 2-3x a week throughout the entirty of flowering until finish just to get through the grow - and even then, I was obviously still dealing with problems. I switched from Hydroguard 1/2 way through flower to Orca hoping to see an improvement, but it didn't help. I'm still amazed it made it through to the end.

I contacted AN near the end when things started getting really bad after I added BudCandy, and they weren't a whole lot of help - only saying that 'b52 and bud candy won't cause these issues', then basically advised running a ton of h202 through the system, but she was so close to the end at that point, I just continued manually (and very carefully) cleaning everything by hand several times a week. It got really old.



After that experience, I switched to H&G Aquaflakes this time, and am now afraid of using any sort of additives at all for fear of sliming everything in this new system.
Reading through your thread hm7 and sorry to hear about all your problems. You are certainly in the right place and in good hands with Aquaman.

I had a similar experience with AN nutrients and ended up switching during the grow because of all the problems...I feel your pain!

FWIW, here is my grow diary where I had all the issues.


Don't give up, you got this! The learning curve is steep but it sounds like you have learned a lot already and you are in the right place here at the Farm. Best of luck!
 
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hm7

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well if you go basic and keep it aimple its pretty easy if you keep your environment and parameters in check. Sgit happens to the best of us and you just meed to take it as a learning experience… hell i always have self created issues from being lazy while knowing better. Youll get there and then you will get lazy and still have some issues to learn from.
I'm trying to keep it simple this round, yet each time I think I've discovered the problem or solved it, it creeps back up lol.

Kind of like this chiller, I kept reading everywhere "get a chiller! your problems will be magically solved! No more root rot if you get one!" .... I got one, build a nice rdwc system, and yet, rot/root issues persist! I will say managing PH has been a lot easier in this system than it ever was in the 5gal bucket, so that's been good. I'm just tired of throwing money and products/parts at this system and changing/trying things only to make it 2-3 weeks and have them die off again. I've lost so much time and killed off so many beans it's not even funny.


I don't even know if these 2 are going to recover of it's better to just start over from scratch at this point with new ones, and just try continue top feeding as you discussed with a lower intensity light.
 
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hm7

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Reading through your thread hm7 and sorry to hear about all your problems. You are certainly in the right place and in good hands with Aquaman.

I had a similar experience with AN nutrients and ended up switching during the grow because of all the problems...I feel your pain!

FWIW, here is my grow diary where I had all the issues.


Don't give up, you got this! The learning curve is steep but it sounds like you have learned a lot already and you are in the right place here at the Farm. Best of luck!

Thanks! I appreciate your help, and also AquaMan's as well! I've been banging my head against a wall for the last several months trying to understand my shortcomings. I was absolutely certain once I removed the rockwool/rooters from the equation, that I would finally get somewhere, but ... alas, 'twas not the case. I'll give your diary a thorough read here this evening!


I've done so much learning over the last year throughout my first grow and all these failed attempts now in this new system. I've got way too much time and money invested at this point to give up or switch methods. My buddy keeps trying to get me to go coco, but I'm just not feeling it for several reasons. I know this rdwc system can work successfully, I just need to figure out what it is I'm doing wrong and correct it, and hopefully continued top feeding and lowering the light intensity will help - I had no idea how bright thiis light really was, and top feeding periodically to keep the net pot either inoculated or sterile makes sense now, thinking about it. These are the little tips/tricks you don't seem to find talked about for some reason - so thank you guys for the help and encouragement!
 
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hm7

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I can see you in great hands.
Also looking at your post , if my plant were your size .
I would take your water ,add calmag to 150-180 then I would go to at least 400 with the a-b feed . Maybe even 5 but that’s me.
Could you explain your 5ml of shock. Like straight up??

Yeah, you're absolutely right - according to H&G's calculator, I should be between 400-500ppm. Again, this is another thing I kept reading online over and over all over the place "don't give ANY nutes until at least 3 weeks has passed!" or the classic "only give them 1/4 of the manufacturer's recommended amounts!" .... I've read both of those so many times it's ingrained in my mind and I'm realizing that's bad advice. Maybe that works for people who have really crappy water I guess, but for me, it was always causing me problems with yellowing seedlings/deficiencies. This is the first grow I started giving nutes (started at 220ppm) right form the start, and for the first time ever, my seedlings were actually a nice shade of green and growing well ... at least before these issues just started.

I'm so paranoid/afraid of burning them, that I've been afraid to bump the nutes up any higher - so, that's why it's low. Now that they are in such bad shape/stressed, I'm afraid to push more ppm at them right now too, as I honestly don't even know if they will recover at this point. I'm really thinking it may just be best to start over right now, but ... I figure it's worth giving them a few days to see if there's any sign of improvement considering I've got 3 weeks sunk into them so far.


The 5ml of shock came from using a chlorine calculator (https://www.publichealthontario.ca/...th/water-quality/chlorine-dilution-calculator). I read someone suggested 8ppm chlorine to combat issues (which I suspect I have) and, then 3-4ppm for a non-issue/standard dose. According to that calculator, 7.5% chlorine, for 12gal of solution, at a desired 8ppm - works out to 6ml.

I added 5ml to be safe - but I'm wondering if maybe it's too much, as I'm pretty sure the 'fish-boning' on the roots was going great, until I added that the other day - and now they look sad/mushy. Really wondering if it was too much and burnt them, but yes I measured out 5ml, and mixed it into some water, then mixed that straight up into my res.
 
MIAquaFire

MIAquaFire

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Yeah avoid the organics in hydro… if you have a small source thats ok but then you must use enzymes to break it down fast but ideally stay away from them. Every nute manufacturer is going to say their stuff is good for everything but yeah you obviously have seen thats not the case

an easy one i found was mega crop 2 part with massive in flower. Silica and fulvic acid are good additives and thats all you need unless your looking to boost sulfur at the end. Potassium sulphate, mag sulphate or something like floralicious that contains those is also ok
Os megacrop what you run?
 
Mytwhyt

Mytwhyt

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On your next go round, you could try adding a drip ring to the grow basket. GH stopped making them, but they are still available. They are a few dollars more now.. Using a drip ring on hydroton will provide all the dissolved O2 a plant needs. I stoped using air stones many years ago. I've had my GH air pump for more than 7 years.. I bought a rebuild kit for the pump and have needed to use it.. Adding a no-load air filter to the GH pump is really simple. https://www.thcfarmer.com/threads/air-pump-running-hot-any-ideas.142226/#post-2846792
 
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hm7

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On your next go round, you could try adding a drip ring to the grow basket. GH stopped making them, but they are still available. They are a few dollars more now.. Using a drip ring on hydroton will provide all the dissolved O2 a plant needs. I stoped using air stones many years ago. I've had my GH air pump for more than 7 years.. I bought a rebuild kit for the pump and have needed to use it.. Adding a no-load air filter to the GH pump is really simple. https://www.thcfarmer.com/threads/air-pump-running-hot-any-ideas.142226/#post-2846792

Funny you mention this, as I was originally trying to get away from using air stones at all, given the problems I had with my last grow with them clogging/sliming up - they seemed like a horrible breeding ground for problems imo, and I wanted to simplify things by completely eliminating them if I could - seemed like one less thing to go wrong/worry about. I originally designed this system with a venturi instead of a stone, but I found out it wasn't keeping the bottom of the netpot wet enough, and I lost some plants to that as the roots were drying up in between top-feed hand waterings - that lead me back to putting stones back in.


My first run on the solo 5gal bucket actually had a top feed ring, which worked well at first, but then I ran into problems with it keeping the rockwool way too wet/constantly soaked. Now that I've managed to get the seedlings into the hydroton without rockwool/rooters, a permanent top feed system might work out well.

I was just sitting here trying to come up with an idea for doing some sort of permanent / automatic timed top-feed system, and saw they had some of those smaller auto-water systems now. I was thinking it would be relatively easy to plumb one of those into the main res and bring a line into each bucket up top, and then set the timer on it to run for 10-15 seconds every couple hours or something. My big unanswered question is how to do it in a way that will evenly disperse the nutrient solution across the top of the hydroton.

I literally just picked up that exact GH pump here today, should arrive in a few days. I'm anxious to get it into the system. If I could figure out how to build some kind of ring or drip system, that might solve a lot of these issues, and possibly remove the need for stones in each of these buckets too.
 
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MIAquaFire

MIAquaFire

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Im running jacks now but will be swapping back to mega crop 2 part.
I read recently alot of people where steering away from megacrop, stating the mix seemed to be different than it was a few years ago and the nutes where clumpy. Thats why i asked, so im assuming you obviouslt like the mega better than jacks or just the familiar setting of it to you?
 
Smokey0418

Smokey0418

616
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Yeah, you're absolutely right - according to H&G's calculator, I should be between 400-500ppm. Again, this is another thing I kept reading online over and over all over the place "don't give ANY nutes until at least 3 weeks has passed!" or the classic "only give them 1/4 of the manufacturer's recommended amounts!" .... I've read both of those so many times it's ingrained in my mind and I'm realizing that's bad advice. Maybe that works for people who have really crappy water I guess, but for me, it was always causing me problems with yellowing seedlings/deficiencies. This is the first grow I started giving nutes (started at 220ppm) right form the start, and for the first time ever, my seedlings were actually a nice shade of green and growing well ... at least before these issues just started.

I'm so paranoid/afraid of burning them, that I've been afraid to bump the nutes up any higher - so, that's why it's low. Now that they are in such bad shape/stressed, I'm afraid to push more ppm at them right now too, as I honestly don't even know if they will recover at this point. I'm really thinking it may just be best to start over right now, but ... I figure it's worth giving them a few days to see if there's any sign of improvement considering I've got 3 weeks sunk into them so far.


The 5ml of shock came from using a chlorine calculator (https://www.publichealthontario.ca/...th/water-quality/chlorine-dilution-calculator). I read someone suggested 8ppm chlorine to combat issues (which I suspect I have) and, then 3-4ppm for a non-issue/standard dose. According to that calculator, 7.5% chlorine, for 12gal of solution, at a desired 8ppm - works out to 6ml.

I added 5ml to be safe - but I'm wondering if maybe it's too much, as I'm pretty sure the 'fish-boning' on the roots was going great, until I added that the other day - and now they look sad/mushy. Really wondering if it was too much and burnt them, but yes I measured out 5ml, and mixed it into some water, then mixed that straight up into my res.
I have used shock before but I weighed then diluted to a gallon then used.

For example 10 grams of shock to gallon or ro water, then using 10ml per gallon in a cloner.
Your application could be approx 40 ppm
It would be interesting to see how many ppm this 5ml put in.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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You only need to too water once a day or 2 then you want to do it throughout the grow once a week
 
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Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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I read recently alot of people where steering away from megacrop, stating the mix seemed to be different than it was a few years ago and the nutes where clumpy. Thats why i asked, so im assuming you obviouslt like the mega better than jacks or just the familiar setting of it to you?
There is some residue but i dont mind it… the 2 part i find works very well and the nutrient ratios fit my needs. I tind it extremely easy to use. The small amount of sediment makes no difference
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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I have used shock before but I weighed then diluted to a gallon then used.

For example 10 grams of shock to gallon or ro water, then using 10ml per gallon in a cloner.
Your application could be approx 40 ppm
It would be interesting to see how many ppm this 5ml put in.
Yea it should always be diluted first… imho live is just so much easier. I ran my first grow this run without for a few weeks and boom got crown rot… im sure between the humidity at the base of the stem and lack of bennies was the reason
 
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hm7

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I have used shock before but I weighed then diluted to a gallon then used.

For example 10 grams of shock to gallon or ro water, then using 10ml per gallon in a cloner.
Your application could be approx 40 ppm
It would be interesting to see how many ppm this 5ml put in.

This is what I was doing up until just a day ago - I found a formula online for 1/4 tsp of shock to 1 gal of water then 2ml/gal every 3-4 days. However, when I noticed the root issues, I thought maybe I was using the wrong shock or something, so ... I switched to liquid bleach that was pre-mixed which was 7.5% and used that calc I linked to - hoping to get the ppm of HOCL to a more exact amount.

According to that calculator, 6ml would equate to 8ppm of chlorine. I added 5ml, so .. I'd imagine it was probably around 7ppm.
 
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hm7

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You only need to too water once a day or 2 then you want to do it throughout the grow once a week
Good to know. I'm gonna give these gals another couple days to see if there's any sort of attempt at bouncing back with the decrease in light and some top feeding ... but they have been wilting away for the last few days, and now that there's some sort of issue with those roots being brown at the bottom of the netpot, I just don't know if they'll make it, or ... if they do, if those roots are just going to cause problems in the rest of the res.

If they don't show some improvement in a few days, I'll sterilize the entire system / the hydroton, and try again just making sure to keep up with the top feeding every few days to keep that area clean and ... hopefully make it beyond the 2-3 week barrier I keep running in to. I still have no idea how my first run made it through in that bucket...
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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Good to know. I'm gonna give these gals another couple days to see if there's any sort of attempt at bouncing back with the decrease in light and some top feeding ... but they have been wilting away for the last few days, and now that there's some sort of issue with those roots being brown at the bottom of the netpot, I just don't know if they'll make it, or ... if they do, if those roots are just going to cause problems in the rest of the res.

If they don't show some improvement in a few days, I'll sterilize the entire system / the hydroton, and try again just making sure to keep up with the top feeding every few days to keep that area clean and ... hopefully make it beyond the 2-3 week barrier I keep running in to. I still have no idea how my first run made it through in that bucket...
Honestly roots dont need to be white, they can be stained from nutrients or additives. Yours looks ok to me but if they turn dark brown and slimey then you need to worry
 
H

hm7

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Honestly roots dont need to be white, they can be stained from nutrients or additives. Yours looks ok to me but if they turn dark brown and slimey then you need to worry
Yeah, I wouldn't be so concerned if the part of the root that was down in the nute solution was the same color, but it concerns me that the part that was in the air-gap and right under the netpot was dark, and the roots that were in the nute solution were pure white. I don't know if those will be okay or not once/if they grow down. I don't think there's really enough nutes in here right now to really stain anything at this point yet. They definitely don't look as bad as that 5gal bucket's roots did - those were horrendous!

I guess my concern here now is if these two will recover or not. I wish there was a way to definitively tell, but I think it's going to be one of those 'wait and see' things. I hate waiting for recovery, as it slows the entire process down. My original 5gal grow that suffered from all that rot and other deficiency problems took almost 7 months start to finish - I'm not looking to repeat that length of time again.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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Yeah, I wouldn't be so concerned if the part of the root that was down in the nute solution was the same color, but it concerns me that the part that was in the air-gap and right under the netpot was dark, and the roots that were in the nute solution were pure white. I don't know if those will be okay or not once/if they grow down. I don't think there's really enough nutes in here right now to really stain anything at this point yet. They definitely don't look as bad as that 5gal bucket's roots did - those were horrendous!

I guess my concern here now is if these two will recover or not. I wish there was a way to definitively tell, but I think it's going to be one of those 'wait and see' things. I hate waiting for recovery, as it slows the entire process down. My original 5gal grow that suffered from all that rot and other deficiency problems took almost 7 months start to finish - I'm not looking to repeat that length of time again.
It’s probably air pruning and this is where is see root rot start all the time. The top feeding will help with that as well as deliver your live or sterile solution to those roots
 
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hm7

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Sounds great! Well... nothing to do here now but wait and see. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks to Aqua Man and everyone else for their help and advice! I truly appreciate it!
 
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