Dwc woes - constant failure

Aqua Man · Oct 2, 2022

hm7 said:
Sounds great! Well... nothing to do here now but wait and see. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks to Aqua Man and everyone else for their help and advice! I truly appreciate it!

Please do… hope things turn around and in sure they will. Think the major thing was the light but that can cause the plants to stunt and all sorts of health issues. Healthy plants are much more resistant so i think ya got this man.

hm7 · Oct 2, 2022

Aqua Man said:
Please do… hope things turn around and in sure they will. Think the major thing was the light but that can cause the plants to stunt and all sorts of health issues. Healthy plants are much more resistant so i think ya got this man.

Yeah, I was amazed at the amount of hand washings/trimming of problems the 5gal bucket one continuously put up with, and bounced back from - especially near the end - she was getting peroxide baths and I was washing the slime off her roots several times a week. At the end, it was like nothing phased her - she just kept on going after a certain point - it was quite amazing.

I've just been struggling trying to get another one to the point where they're established enough to become resilient and take off.

hm7 · Oct 3, 2022

Two more questions:

- Is 64-66F too cold to be keeping my nute solution? Reading over SweetLeaf's diary (and others), I see a lot of people aim for 67F. I'd like to keep the risk of root rot to a minimum, but I also am not looking to stunt the growth too much on my plants. I am willing to sacrifice a bit of growth for additional protection though - but perhaps it's not as much of a concern if sterile/bennies are used too?

- I have noticed the outer perimeter of the netpots absolutely lets a small amount of light into each bucket. I can't seem to keep this from happening regardless of how much hydrotron I try to pile up around the edge. Should I be concerned about this? How are people stopping this like leakage?

I've tried various methods to cover up most of the hydrotron and edges of the cup, which seems to encourage the hydrotron to, imo, appear to stay too wet/not dry out, and I'm sure that leads to a great place for bad stuff to start growing as air can't really get out. I've tried foil, and waxy paper plates - neither seemed to work well. I was thinking last night perhaps a dark hand towel laid around the edge of the net pot might work?

SweetLeafGrow · Oct 3, 2022

I used a black trash bag that I cut a square out of and then a slice to get it around the stem. Ya, you want to keep light out. I think Moe recommends a bit warmer, around 70 for young plants and then 68 for the duration after the plant is established.

hm7 · Oct 3, 2022

SweetLeafGrow said:
I used a black trash bag that I cut a square out of and then a slice to get it around the stem. Ya, you want to keep light out. I think Moe recommends a bit warmer, around 70 for young plants and then 68 for the duration after the plant is established.

Yeah, I was reading through your diary last night and saw that. Def got me thinking. I like that idea. I keep trying cardboard but wrapped in aluminum tape to keep it from getting wet/soaking. I think maybe I might pick up some dark towels today and try those, while cutting out the inside to allow the inner hydroton to still get air to them. It was really concerning to me to see how soaking wet everything was, even up around the stem, when I removed my last covers I made (which covered 95% of the entire netpot/hydroton area).

Good to know about the temps, I def have thought about raising them up a bit, but definitely want to keep root rot chances as minimal as possible. Maybe I'll bump it up a degree here.

smokedareefer · Oct 3, 2022

Smokey0418 said:
I can see you in great hands.
Also looking at your post , if my plant were your size .
I would take your water ,add calmag to 150-180 then I would go to at least 400 with the a-b feed . Maybe even 5 but that’s me.
Could you explain your 5ml of shock. Like straight up??

Add cal mag

Smokey0418 · Oct 3, 2022

smokedareefer said:
Add cal mag

In the right proportion, your dam right.

hm7 · Oct 3, 2022

smokedareefer said:
Add cal mag

That's the solution to every problem it seems lol. The issues I'm seeing are undoubtedly due to a root related problem and additionally as Aqua Man said, probably also my light intensity being far too high, not insufficient amounts of cal/mag.

Already have it in there though - first post "Nutes: CalMag and House and Garden A&B AquaFlakes".

Aqua Man · Oct 3, 2022

Im running 83f res temps currently (not ideal) personally i found 72-74f to be ideal but you must run beneficial or be on top of your sterile program. Ignore that back plant its a goner. I wasn’t running beneficials or sterile for about 2-3weeks and ended up with crown rot that cost me that plant and one more

beluga · Oct 3, 2022

And on the other side of the spectrum - this plant never saw res temps much above 70ºF. I also didn't run live or sterile until a few weeks in.

hm7 · Oct 3, 2022

Aqua Man said:
Im running 83f res temps currently (not ideal) personally i found 72-74f to be ideal but you must run beneficial or be on top of your sterile program. Ignore that back plant its a goner. I wasn’t running beneficials or sterile for about 2-3weeks and ended up with crown rot that cost me that plant and one moreView attachment 1288524

Wow, that's super impressive that they are still that clean looking for those temps, and how long you went not running either. That root mass is huge!

beluga said:
And on the other side of the spectrum - this plant never saw res temps much above 70ºF. I also didn't run live or sterile until a few weeks in.

Ha! yeah, that reminds me a lot of my first 5gal bucket, only that actually looks far better (and much more mass) than I ever saw with that run even with bennies. I feel your pain though. Dealing with that is not a pleasant experience.

This is another great example of "a chiller / low water temps won't magically prevent root rot from happening!", and absolutely reinforces the need to run either live or sterile in addition to keeping water temps in check.

Aqua Man · Oct 3, 2022

hm7 said:
Wow, that's super impressive that they are still that clean looking for those temps, and how long you went not running either. That root mass is huge!

Ha! yeah, that reminds me a lot of my first 5gal bucket, only that actually looks far better (and much more mass) than I ever saw with that run even with bennies. I feel your pain though. Dealing with that is not a pleasant experience.

This is another great example of "a chiller / low water temps won't magically prevent root rot from happening!", and absolutely reinforces the need to run either live or sterile in addition to keeping water temps in check.

Well im not 100% certain but im running elevated o2 in the water and i feel thats whats allowing me to run 83f but a normal system IME 72-74 is about as ideal as it gets. I havent had a chance to test but im pretty sure im well over 200% of the max saturation level of o2 in my system.

hm7 · Oct 3, 2022

Aqua Man said:
Well im not 100% certain but im running elevated o2 in the water and i feel thats whats allowing me to run 83f but a normal system IME 72-74 is about as ideal as it gets. I havent had a chance to test but im pretty sure im well over 200% of the max saturation level of o2 in my system.

Very interesting. I've wanted to get an o2 monitor just to check mine as well, just for the sake of curiosity. What air stones are you running, and how many per bucket? I'm really thinking this new air pump is going to help. I was afraid having too many bubbles was going to cause the water to become too turbulent and disturb/damage the roots, but .... it definitely doesn't seem to be the case.

smokedareefer · Oct 3, 2022

hm7 said:
That's the solution to every problem it seems lol. The issues I'm seeing are undoubtedly due to a root related problem and additionally as Aqua Man said, probably also my light intensity being far too high, not insufficient amounts of cal/mag.

Already have it in there though - first post "Nutes: CalMag and House and Garden A&B AquaFlakes".

Did you add one calmag or two calmag ?

Aqua Man · Oct 3, 2022

hm7 said:
Very interesting. I've wanted to get an o2 monitor just to check mine as well, just for the sake of curiosity. What air stones are you running, and how many per bucket? I'm really thinking this new air pump is going to help. I was afraid having too many bubbles was going to cause the water to become too turbulent and disturb/damage the roots, but .... it definitely doesn't seem to be the case.

Im ot running airstones. Im separating oxygen molecules and delivering them to my nutrient solution.

But to answer your question. Gas exchange happens at the waters surface not from the bubbles but rather the surface agitation they create. The bubbles do a good job of eater column mixing and when they break the surface thats where the gas exchange happens. So your goal is to make sure that the entire surface is being agitated for best gas exchange.

For airstones i suggest the 4x2 cylinder stones. Which require about 10-12L per min to function properly. You always match the total number of airstones to the pump. So say 5 airstones would be 50-60lpm air pump. The high end is better or just slightly higher but not lower because you need room to compensate for the depth and back pressure of water

smokedareefer · Oct 3, 2022

beluga said:
And on the other side of the spectrum - this plant never saw res temps much above 70ºF. I also didn't run live or sterile until a few weeks in.

In 10 years ive nev

beluga said:
And on the other side of the spectrum - this plant never saw res temps much above 70ºF. I also didn't run live or sterile until a few weeks in.

I too have never run live or sterile temp always around 68.

beluga · Oct 3, 2022

smokedareefer said:
In 10 years ive nev
I too have never run live or sterile temp always around 68.

But what have you run?
I also didn't encounter root rot ever before switching up my nutrient lineup for this grow.
You may not have run live or sterile intentionally, but you may have unknowingly. I.e. - incorporated into a nutrient lineup.

Just a quick gander at the GH FloraMicro...

All of those constituents we know (or at least trust) to be necessary nutrients. But we don't often think about how many of them are antibiotic (fungicidal, algaecidal, etc.)

Aqua Man · Oct 3, 2022

beluga said:
But what have you run?
I also didn't encounter root rot ever before switching up my nutrient lineup for this grow.
You may not have run live or sterile intentionally, but you may have unknowingly. I.e. - incorporated into a nutrient lineup.

Just a quick gander at the GH FloraMicro...

All of those constituents we know (or at least trust) to be necessary nutrients. But we don't often think about how many of them are antibiotic (fungicidal, algaecidal, etc.)

Exactly… and bacteria occur naturally… its kind of a crap shoot and temp has very little to do with which bacteria take hold but rather the speed at which they reproduce. There are often reasons we dont think of for a result and often assumptions can be wrong. Hell tap water containers most often now chloramines which if doing a water change often actually can act as a sterilizer Which is not often considered. By inoculating we give the bacteria we want a head start to colonize and outcompete other species

But the subject can go much much deeper

smokedareefer · Oct 3, 2022

beluga said:
But what have you run?
I also didn't encounter root rot ever before switching up my nutrient lineup for this grow.
You may not have run live or sterile intentionally, but you may have unknowingly. I.e. - incorporated into a nutrient lineup.

Just a quick gander at the GH FloraMicro...

All of those constituents we know (or at least trust) to be necessary nutrients. But we don't often think about how many of them are antibiotic (fungicidal, algaecidal, etc.)

Gh 3 part only, ph up, ph down and calmag. Ive contemplated using silica but neve have

hm7 · Oct 3, 2022

Aqua Man said:
Im ot running airstones. Im separating oxygen molecules and delivering them to my nutrient solution.

But to answer your question. Gas exchange happens at the waters surface not from the bubbles but rather the surface agitation they create. The bubbles do a good job of eater column mixing and when they break the surface thats where the gas exchange happens. So your goal is to make sure that the entire surface is being agitated for best gas exchange.

For airstones i suggest the 4x2 cylinder stones. Which require about 10-12L per min to function properly. You always match the total number of airstones to the pump. So say 5 airstones would be 50-60lpm air pump. The high end is better or just slightly higher but not lower because you need room to compensate for the depth and back pressure of water

Yeah, I'm fully aware the gas exchange happens at the surface. It was one of the key reasons I tried originally to go with my venturi idea on this build. My understanding is, the smaller the bubbles and more surface area they physically cover - the better the exchange.

Can you please elaborate and go into a bit more depth on your separation of o2 molecules and how you do that and deliver it into your nutrient system? I'm intrigued. I would absolutely love to remove these air stones from my system. I tried waterfall for a bit, but it was incredibly noisy, and also ran into the same issue I did with the venturi - it seemed to provide sufficient amounts of DO, however the hydroton near the bottom of the net pot remained too dry and I was losing plants to the roots drying out in-between top waterings by hand.

I expect the venturi method would work very well, were I to build/incorporate some sort of automatic timed top-feeder though - but again, tradeoffs with noise.

Sounds good on the stones - I'm actually running those large cylindrical ones already, so I should be good once the new air pump comes. I'll probably bump the number of air stones up from 1 to 2 per bucket though, just to be safe. I currently have 2 in my large res - contemplating bringing that to 4 total, and getting another one of these larger pumps, but we'll see how this one performs in the buckets first.

Dwc woes - constant failure

Dwc woes - constant failure

Aqua Man

hm7

hm7

SweetLeafGrow

hm7

smokedareefer

Smokey0418

hm7

Aqua Man

beluga

hm7

Aqua Man

hm7

smokedareefer

Aqua Man

smokedareefer

beluga

Aqua Man

smokedareefer

hm7

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