e-cigarette into a vaporizer??

[Kaliman]

I was in Prague a while back, I had gone there to drop off samples of my Cheese#1 and some Exodus clone bud for a comparative test in a lab using gas chromatography analysis techniques and whilst out there I visited a cannabis collective that was doing loads of work with oil extractions and they pulled out these eCigs loaded with oil and I must say they didn't work too badly at all. They'd made some adjustments to them, not sure what they did but they do work quite well.

Here's a few pics of their oils and a couple of their mother and clone rooms.


@Graywolf. Good info my friend and rest assured I'll pass that on to the folk in Prague, especially with regard to cannabis acetate.

Gonna backtrack through this thread now to hopefully get some info on cannabis acetate?

 

[Graywolf]

I was in Prague a while back, I had gone there to drop off samples of my Cheese#1 and some Exodus clone bud for a comparative test in a lab using gas chromatography analysis techniques and whilst out there I visited a cannabis collective that was doing loads of work with oil extractions and they pulled out these eCigs loaded with oil and I must say they didn't work too badly at all. They'd made some adjustments to them, not sure what they did but they do work quite well.

Here's a few pics of their oils and a couple of their mother and clone rooms.


@Graywolf. Good info my friend and rest assured I'll pass that on to the folk in Prague, especially with regard to cannabis acetate.

Gonna backtrack through this thread now to hopefully get some info on cannabis acetate?

My regards to your friends in Prague, a beatiful city and lovely people!

Here is the process we are currently using to make cannabis acetate, probably not refined as far as it can be yet, but works and produces reliable results.

Last run, we started by dissolving 10.4 grams of BHO into 16.5 grams of hexane, to remove it from the storage container with an unknown tare, so as to not waste any left behind in films and to get an accurate weight. We warmed the mixture in a hot water bath to increase dissolution rate.

When dissolved, we decanted into a beaker with a known tare and weighed the total amount, from which we subtracted the beaker tare and the weight of the hexane to get the BHO weight of 10.4 grams.

We then poured that into a one liter boiling flask. To that we added 25 ml of acetic anhydride and 1.25 ml of 98% sulfuric acid.

We placed the boiling flask on a combination hot plate stirrer, and added a stirring bar to the mixture.

We added an Alhin condenser to the flask, through which we pumped ice water, and reflux boiled the mixture for one hour while stirring.

After refluxing for one hour, we added 40 ml of water to react the remaining acetic anhydride, and another 40 ml of hexane. We poured that into a separatory funnel, which we finished filling with saturated salt water.

After shaking well, we allowed the layers to separate and bled off the lower water emulsion layer, only to refill with salt water again and repeat the procedure until we had run about 4 liters of salt water through the mixture.

After bleeding off the salt water one last time, we bled the hexane mixture into a beaker and after filtering through a 0.2 micron syringe filter, we boiled off the hexane using the hot plate stirrer, with the beaker sitting in a larger beaker half full of water.

Just before the hexane was gone, I refilled the beaker to the half way mark with 190 proof ethanol and boiled that off. I repeated the alcohol wash three times to insure the removal of the rest of the hexane.

The resulting acetate is of a lighter color than the original oil and of lower viscosity.

 

[rusty]

dear gawd gaywolf, y u gotta make me feel so dumb! haha.

I had read about cannabis acetate in that old hippie book 'cannabis alchemy', they used an entirely different process tho

 

[Kaliman]

Graywolf, top man!


Thankyou so much for this very useful info.

I could do that myself easily if not for the acetic anhydride as it's a main precursor chemical in diamorphine ( heroin ) synthesis so ordering that from a chem supply company would probably raise a very red flag but I'll pass this onto the chemist in Prague, he has a Phd in organic chemistry and won't have a problem accessing the necessary chems and probably has them anyway.

And yes, Prague is a great city and oh the laydee's were really beautiful!

 

[Graywolf]

Graywolf, top man!


Thankyou so much for this very useful info.

I could do that myself easily if not for the acetic anhydride as it's a main precursor chemical in diamorphine ( heroin ) synthesis so ordering that from a chem supply company would probably raise a very red flag but I'll pass this onto the chemist in Prague, he has a Phd in organic chemistry and won't have a problem accessing the necessary chems and probably has them anyway.

And yes, Prague is a great city and oh the laydee's were really beautiful!

It raises red flags here too bro, especially if ordered in large quantities. We ordered it through one of our research businesses and are still on our first liter. No doubt we are now on a list, but aren't selling any product or making any money, so our doors are still intact.

The ladies were indeed lovely and we can thank the Allies for mostly not bombing Prague during WWII. Besides the delightful women, some of the architecture is stunning.

In addition, the best mechanical design engineer that I ever hired was also from the Czech republic. At one time they were considered the city of light in Europe and produced some of the most brilliant minds in history.

When I visited Prague, the iron curtain had recently fallen and they were in the process of restoring the city after domination by the Soviet Union. What can you say about the old city other than the architecture is stunning and the people were a joy?

 

[EuDiesel]

Thanks for the procedure and some supplemental images! Miss seeing the fruits of my labor in a nice fat sep. funnel. One quick question, unless I misesd it, what was the final yield? I'm calculating a theoretical yield of 9.17 g. Did you tare and mass the beaker for the final product?

Looks real neat, never really red too much up about all the derivatives of THC but seems like this was popular about 10 years before being banned. What are your thoughts of the product in comparison to the original? Neat, but in the end, far too much use of chemicals for something (imo) so naturally beautiful. For the sake of science though, cool work!

And IIRC, you can use acyl chlorides to acylate alcohols (although I think the result is some HCl gas generated that will need to be dealt with) or create in situ with acetic acid/thionyl chloride. So 1L creates about 40 ~9 g batches -- just over 3/4 of a pound of oil. Not bad honestly, since there may be some room to tweak the ratios of solvents and optimize the scale.

 

[motherlode]

All that and a bag of chips

 

[Graywolf]

Thanks for the procedure and some supplemental images! Miss seeing the fruits of my labor in a nice fat sep. funnel. One quick question, unless I misesd it, what was the final yield? I'm calculating a theoretical yield of 9.17 g. Did you tare and mass the beaker for the final product?

Looks real neat, never really red too much up about all the derivatives of THC but seems like this was popular about 10 years before being banned. What are your thoughts of the product in comparison to the original? Neat, but in the end, far too much use of chemicals for something (imo) so naturally beautiful. For the sake of science though, cool work!

And IIRC, you can use acyl chlorides to acylate alcohols (although I think the result is some HCl gas generated that will need to be dealt with) or create in situ with acetic acid/thionyl chloride. So 1L creates about 40 ~9 g batches -- just over 3/4 of a pound of oil. Not bad honestly, since there may be some room to tweak the ratios of solvents and optimize the scale.

Sorry, Joe spilled some, so we didn't get an accurate measurement on this run.

The question also begs whether we are talking about the starting weight of raw BHO oleoresin or an absolute that already has most of the waxes and other non active ingredients taken out.

We appear to be averaging about an 85/90% yield starting with an absolute, despite Stark's proffering a theoretical 125% yield. We of course are also still refining our process, so we may improve some.

The cannabis acetate is much smoother than the oil it was made from when vaporized, but loses all turpenoid flavors and has a flavor similar to smoking a vinyl phonograph record.

Actually tastier than that makes it sound, but it tastes and smells nothing like cannabis oil.

I reaches full effect fairly rapidly compared to cannabis oil, whether vaporized, taken sublingually, or used in a topical. Stark represents it as 3X potency, but I think it is about the same potency, it just arrives instead of coming on.

I salute natural herbal medicine too, but putting into my perspective, originally we brewed willow bark tea for a headache. We now use the same salicylic acid from the willow bark and treat it with acetic anhydride, which is just vinegar with the water taken out. Aspirin is the result and so much more effective that most folks no longer brew bitter willow bark tea.

We'uns are simply looking for things that work. Alas, although my preferred method of ingestion is smoking a tasty bud, not only will my lungs not tolerate that, as a bottom line, it doesn't affectively address the chronic pain that I use cannabis for in the first place.

What actually blows me away, is that the medicinal capabilities of cannabis have been allow to lag so far behind the balance of medical science and I have to extract and acetylize my own oil to have it available, instead of just picking it up at the corner drug store along with the rest of my meds.

 

[EuDiesel]

Sorry, Joe spilled some, so we didn't get an accurate measurement on this run.

The question also begs whether we are talking about the starting weight of raw BHO oleoresin or an absolute that already has most of the waxes and other non active ingredients taken out.

We appear to be averaging about an 85/90% yield starting with an absolute, despite Stark's proffering a theoretical 125% yield. We of course are also still refining our process, so we may improve some.

Ah that's a shame but those are nice yields. I'm sure with some practice and refining you will of course reach a better yield as well as product.

The cannabis acetate is much smoother than the oil it was made from when vaporized, but loses all turpenoid flavors and has a flavor similar to smoking a vinyl phonograph record.

Actually tastier than that makes it sound, but it tastes and smells nothing like cannabis oil.

Although preferable to keep the terps, it is understandable that they will be lost and that this will be much more, "refined" for lack of a better word. Have you made a little salad mixture with some low potency herb and the Ac-THC?

I reaches full effect fairly rapidly compared to cannabis oil, whether vaporized, taken sublingually, or used in a topical. Stark represents it as 3X potency, but I think it is about the same potency, it just arrives instead of coming on.

I salute natural herbal medicine too, but putting into my perspective, originally we brewed willow bark tea for a headache. We now use the same salicylic acid from the willow bark and treat it with acetic anhydride, which is just vinegar with the water taken out. Aspirin is the result and so much more effective that most folks no longer brew bitter willow bark tea.

We'uns are simply looking for things that work. Alas, although my preferred method of ingestion is smoking a tasty bud, not only will my lungs not tolerate that, as a bottom line, it doesn't affectively address the chronic pain that I use cannabis for in the first place.

What actually blows me away, is that the medicinal capabilities of cannabis have been allow to lag so far behind the balance of medical science and I have to extract and acetylize my own oil to have it available, instead of just picking it up at the corner drug store along with the rest of my meds.

Keep up the good work and spread the love. It's only a matter of time before that WILL be possible, and you can brag to your grandkids your role in the matter.