EC and PPM help

[evu80]

total newbie here and could use advice.

Lately Ive been getting these wild swings and I cant figure out what is the main cause of the problem.

My plants were showing burnt tips 4 days ago so decided to flush out my reservoir and plants with water mixed with botanicare's flushing agent to remove excess salt and other build ups.

just before the burnt tips started to show, I notice I had to adjust my reservoir frequently with PH up as the PH was dropping at a rate of a point per day. My ppm at that moment was fairly low in the 650 range. Ive been vegging for 3 weeks at the time.

going to veg just this week for the final time before kicking it into bloom. So currently after changing out my reservoir my PPM dropped 200 pts and has settled at 700 and my PH continues to drop a whole point per day.

is this normal?

Im using AN ph balance formula mix

 

[j wizzle]

you need to outline your entire grow setup for anyone to give you an accurate answer.


are you adding ph up & down on a daily basis to correct the swings? if so, this is your problem.


put your nutes in, leave them alone for a day or so, then go and check the PH. dont dump all your nutes in and then adjust the PH right afterwards or you will run into problems like your having right now.


little more info about your setup will get you a better answer too.

 

[DrCALIGREENTHUM]

you need to outline your entire grow setup for anyone to give you an accurate answer.


are you adding ph up & down on a daily basis to correct the swings? if so, this is your problem.


put your nutes in, leave them alone for a day or so, then go and check the PH. dont dump all your nutes in and then adjust the PH right afterwards or you will run into problems like your having right now.

Why so fella? can you explain more

 

[evu80]

you need to outline your entire grow setup for anyone to give you an accurate answer.


are you adding ph up & down on a daily basis to correct the swings? if so, this is your problem.


put your nutes in, leave them alone for a day or so, then go and check the PH. dont dump all your nutes in and then adjust the PH right afterwards or you will run into problems like your having right now.


little more info about your setup will get you a better answer too.

Im using a custom flood and drain table and im currently top feeding my plaints with a dripper.

my media is a mixture of rockwool cubes and clay pellets. I would say its a 75 to 25 ratio for better aeration.

for my nutes I use advance nutrients micro grow and bloom. I use one part each as recommended on the label. I also add one part Mother earth grow tea along with half part of B52 vitamins. To top off the mixture I also add 1/4 part cal mag cause I use R/O water.

I usually change out before the lights go out and PH everything before I leave. usually the nutes sit around 6 hours before its pumped through the system for the first feed of the day . I'll take your advice and PH the resevoir just before the next watering cycle

Sometimes there's little drift but lately the drift has been fuking bad at a tune of one point per day. Before I was using a lot of PH down but now its all PH up

If i'm forgetting to add anything let me know. Thanks for taking out the time to help me

 

[j wizzle]

Why so fella? can you explain more

you serious?


he could be having PH swings from multiple reasons...


there could be a salt build up for one...


it could be the media causing it....



honestly, how can you diagnose a problem when you know literally NOTHING about his grow?






there are PH buffers in nutes, if you adjust the PH before the buffers have done their job, you are going to get swings. thats why you add nutes, let them sit overnight, then adjust the next day

 

[DrCALIGREENTHUM]

^really? i see ive done it both over night and within a couple hours i dont see a difference in swing

 

[evu80]

would u guys happen to know if it makes a difference in the order of additives that i mix in once i get the 3 parts ready?

 

[Capulator]

First you need to convert your ppms to EC (check your meter to get the conversion factor, then go online and do some research on how to convert to EC). Look that up and refer to your values in EC and not ppms. This will help you greatly.

 

[Capulator]

I can adjust about 10 minutes after adding nutes (as long as they are all mixed in).pH will swing if the plants are drinking and ratios of nutes are correct.

 

[j wizzle]

^really? i see ive done it both over night and within a couple hours i dont see a difference in swing

that may be true....however, how can you suggest a solution to a problem when you dont even know his grow style?

also, you have probably mixed your res a good 20 times now, and know exactly how much ph up/down to put into your res to get it to the level you need.


the first thing this guy tells you is he is a total newbie and has no clue what he is doing.

would u guys happen to know if it makes a difference in the order of additives that i mix in once i get the 3 parts ready?

micro, grow, bloom

I can adjust about 10 minutes after adding nutes (as long as they are all mixed in).pH will swing if the plants are drinking and ratios of nutes are correct.

i wouldnt recomend that to anyone. how can your nutes be completely mixed after 10 minutes? my ppms are still all over the place... i have over 100 gal res/system, those nutes arent going to be completely mixed in 10 minutes, theres no physical way that can happen unless you premix everything outside of the system and then pump it in.



and yes, obviously PH is going to go up & down. i dont consider that a PH swing, thats just nute uptake and thats going to happen no matter what as the plant drinks water and the PPMs go up... you actually want the ph to go from 6-5 and then back up so different nutes can be take up by the plant.



nute swing to me is when you have a ph of 7 drop down to 4 in 2 days...which is what happens when you lower the PH too much because you didnt allow the nutes time to mix properly....then people see its at 4 and they put a bunch of PH up into the res and wonder why the PH keeps swinging back & forth

 

[iscrog4food]

I am going to guess it is too much salt in the medium. Also did you buffer your rock wool prior to use ( soak it n phed low nute solution)? Personally I have a 450 gph pump in my res facing up that I turn on when I'm mixing nutes. I mix, ph then check back in an hour or so. When in doubt, in your medium, just run really low nutes for a day or two then switch back to full strength and you should be fine. Also check your ph frequently until you get the swing of things. I recommend most new growers use drain to waste for their first grows as it is much less complex than recirculateing to dial in. I also think DTW yields best too!

 

[j wizzle]

i agree its probably a salt build up

flush the medium, check the PH in your runoff and your res. this will give you a good idea of where the problem is.

 

[evu80]

hi guys

thanks for the many responses. I check my reservoir before I slept last night and it was at 800ppm (1.6 EC) and the PH was at 6.1 after adding PH up.

After the first feeding cycle I checked it again and my PH was down to 5. PPM still remained the same .

This is the third res change in the past 8 days and each time I changed it out I flushed it for a day with a cleaning solution to remove the excess salt.

going to flush it again tonight and start over.

Weird thing is I'm using AN "perfect balance PH" formula yet the PH is dropping like a rock.

 

[evu80]

one more thing J Wizzle,

the first three weeks i almost had zero issues except that I constantly added PH down but im guessing a rise in PH is better than a drop, right?

I mix my 3 part in the follow order. Micro grow and then bloom. Just wondering if adding mother grow tea for example ahead of B52 or voodoo juice would screw things up.

so you when you mix your nutes u run it thru the pump in essence watering your plants as well?

 

[j wizzle]

no, im RDWC...DIY UC system basically.

so i mix nutes with water and then dump them into my epicenter. thats why i dont PH until the following day....if i even need to PH (most of the time i dont)


and if your PH is at 6.1, i would let it drop to 5.2 before messing with anything.



now that you said you are using the PH perfect from AN, i would suggest not PHing at all. see what happens in a couple days. that nute line is supposed to automatically adjust the PH for you...

ive never used it and theres not much info that ive seen as its a fairly new product.




normally the PPMs go up as the PH goes down, so i think the PH perfect formula and the PH adjusting you are doing is whats causing the swing.




also....i run add back, i dont swap my entire res out each week. so as the plant drinks up the water, the PPMs go up and the PH goes down. i normally just add water, the ppms go down, the PH goes back up. then i add back the nutes as needed. this cycle continues throughout the flowering process and you PH SHOULD be going up & down, but it should go up & down gradually over a couple days.

 

[j wizzle]

1 last thing. 3 nute changes in 8 days with cleaning solution cant be good for your plants or your PH either.


sometimes you need to take it slow and allow things to adjust naturally. you can do more damage than good trying to over correct your mistakes.


the plant wants to live, it doesnt take much to grow decent herb. just keep it simple. theres no need to have 8 diferent products in your res either. why not just grow with the 3 part for now until you have the PH under control?? then you can add in the boosters after you have that problem solved...take away some variables



i would suggest flushing with plain water the next 2 days and then go back to the 3part only. it will put you back a week but thats better than having lockout issues

 

[Capulator]

I can adjust about 10 minutes after adding nutes (as long as they are all mixed in).pH will swing if the plants are drinking and ratios of nutes are correct.

that may be true....however, how can you suggest a solution to a problem when you dont even know his grow style?

also, you have probably mixed your res a good 20 times now, and know exactly how much ph up/down to put into your res to get it to the level you need.


the first thing this guy tells you is he is a total newbie and has no clue what he is doing.



micro, grow, bloom



i wouldnt recomend that to anyone. how can your nutes be completely mixed after 10 minutes? my ppms are still all over the place... i have over 100 gal res/system, those nutes arent going to be completely mixed in 10 minutes, theres no physical way that can happen unless you premix everything outside of the system and then pump it in.



and yes, obviously PH is going to go up & down. i dont consider that a PH swing, thats just nute uptake and thats going to happen no matter what as the plant drinks water and the PPMs go up... you actually want the ph to go from 6-5 and then back up so different nutes can be take up by the plant.



nute swing to me is when you have a ph of 7 drop down to 4 in 2 days...which is what happens when you lower the PH too much because you didnt allow the nutes time to mix properly....then people see its at 4 and they put a bunch of PH up into the res and wonder why the PH keeps swinging back & forth

He will learn. I run RDWC as well, and it takes about 10 minutes to mix in the last of my nutes. My total res change takes about an hour and a half (140 gal) I usually dont pH for about a day and a half.

Let me rephrase. Don't pH until the ppm meter you are using settles on your target number. Do not just add the amoutn of nutes listed ont he label. Often thsi can lead to burign of yoru plant. Get to understand the EC. Soem systems you will be runign a lower EC, and others higher. There is nothing you can do about being a newb. Keep reading, keep practicing, keep learning, and in time... you will be giving us advise.

 

[Capulator]

1 last thing. 3 nute changes in 8 days with cleaning solution cant be good for your plants or your PH either.


sometimes you need to take it slow and allow things to adjust naturally. you can do more damage than good trying to over correct your mistakes.


the plant wants to live, it doesnt take much to grow decent herb. just keep it simple. theres no need to have 8 diferent products in your res either. why not just grow with the 3 part for now until you have the PH under control?? then you can add in the boosters after you have that problem solved...take away some variables



i would suggest flushing with plain water the next 2 days and then go back to the 3part only. it will put you back a week but thats better than having lockout issues

100% agree. RO water pH at 6.0 if you can. Or just plain tap, pH at 6.0. Let them be. You do not need to do that many res changes. No need to use cleaning solution (clearex?) thats just sugar water.