Ethics In Breeding

[thunderfudge]

joesy whales:

i have been getting alot of questions about the gg4 so im going to tell everyone how itwent down, a few years ago i was growing sour dubb and Chemdog's Sister and some others, the Chemdog's Sister threw a couple nanners and hit the sour dubb, i held those seeds for a year or so and finally popped 5 of them, they were ok, really had one nice pheno but i lost it in a security scare, the other 4 pheno's all hermed on me and tottaly seeded my whole stadium run, i was pissed, i got rid of all of it to a friend, marrdog. he kept alot of the seeds and about a year later we had a joint grow going and he popped i belive it was 6 of those seeds, i was really concerned that they would herm and dident have much hope for them, they were all female, we ended up with pheno's 1 2 4 and one we called the runt, all were outstanding, the clear winner though was the gg 4. so thanks to marrdog and lady luck.

 

[caveman4.20]

+1 to everybody for their comments.I've seen both sides to it. breeder A doesn't want his last year selecting and breeding to be in vane by breeder b using his work,but if he elected to let it out for monetary compensation he has no right to say anything.I feel there is more than enough gear out there for everyone to play with.I don't like the redundancy of 10 people working the same lines though.be original at least.
I think there are definitions out there for "breeder' and "chucker".I think a breeder is a seeker of results under guidelines of having a goal and working towards it.I think a chucker is in it for short term gratification and seldom seeks anything but compensation.not saying it's wrong to hit a male to 30 strains,but if u have no plan to advance the lines,or at least search through them,where's the breeding in that?that is chucking.you're not even examining the fruits of your labor,some don't even test their gear,but want to sell it as soon as theyre shucked.what the hell?
I've been a tradesman my whole life,and it's always been a step by step journey of seeking knowledge to advance yourself.I started pushing a broom long before framing houses,and cut miles of baseboard before before fire suppressing multi million dollar buildings.I'm really disenchanted with the whole thing at the moment.

I don't agree with everything in your comment but I like the conversation and it needs to take place so less retaliation takes place. I think there's a ton of negative energy being wasted in miscommunication and that leads to actions sometimes, I understand that first hand and it can be prevented. ....if someone is going to put the ranch up they need a complete consult if they need consult they should not put the ranch up

 

[caveman4.20]

joesy whales:

i have been getting alot of questions about the gg4 so im going to tell everyone how itwent down, a few years ago i was growing sour dubb and Chemdog's Sister and some others, the Chemdog's Sister threw a couple nanners and hit the sour dubb, i held those seeds for a year or so and finally popped 5 of them, they were ok, really had one nice pheno but i lost it in a security scare, the other 4 pheno's all hermed on me and tottaly seeded my whole stadium run, i was pissed, i got rid of all of it to a friend, marrdog. he kept alot of the seeds and about a year later we had a joint grow going and he popped i belive it was 6 of those seeds, i was really concerned that they would herm and dident have much hope for them, they were all female, we ended up with pheno's 1 2 4 and one we called the runt, all were outstanding, the clear winner though was the gg 4. so thanks to marrdog and lady luck.

Cool, I am interested in histories on plants and the contreversies, won't be the last, I can't wait to try the real deal Gorilla Glue #4

 

[thunderfudge]

I don't agree with everything in your comment but I like the conversation and it needs to take place so less retaliation takes place. I think there's a ton of negative energy being wasted in miscommunication and that leads to actions sometimes, I understand that first hand and it can be prevented. ....if someone is going to put the ranch up they need a complete consult if they need consult they should not put the ranch up

Bro,I don't agree with it all either

 

[justblazen]

Been seeing more and more "breeders" popping up using other established true breeders work. My question is......when did buying a couple packs of beans then smashing a male and a female together and making a cross warrant a seedco? In my day you had to do some work and make your own male before making crosses you could call your own. The chuckers of this day and age are making a mockery of true cannabis breeding. Poly hybrids that all look the same is whats coming from it this chucking generation. Blessings or not its not god practice and honestly its pure hack breeding.

Whats everyone else's take?

great, controversial subject you bring up. I think at minimum working the line a few steps to bring your own male to the table should be the minimum, but as long as their is the demand>there will be the supplier. I know a few breeders damn well haven't received blessings with most of the sampling they've chosen with their lines but it didn't stop them from putting out their lines, and that applies to some of the "more established breeders". For instance, look at how many people pop JJ-NYC's gear and make a bunch of F1's. but at the same time if someone finds a stellar male, should they keep it to themselves? Or bring the dank to the public?

 

[caveman4.20]

RELEASE THE DANK.
peace and seed junky greaze!

 

[MrRightBrain]

VERy good post jb.

 

[MrRightBrain]

i think play it forward should never stop, i think if you come into breeding, you are using many other peoples life's work. Why all of a sudden is it not okay to pay it forward? it's like people get to the top of a mountain and want to cut the rope for others. To me that's not right.

 

[caveman4.20]

i think play it forward should never stop, i think if you come into breeding, you are using many other peoples life's work. Why all of a sudden is it not okay to pay it forward? it's like people get to the top of a mountain and want to cut the rope for others. To me that's not right.

That's unethical. I agree

 

[true grit]

great, controversial subject you bring up. I think at minimum working the line a few steps to bring your own male to the table should be the minimum, but as long as their is the demand>there will be the supplier. I know a few breeders damn well haven't received blessings with most of the sampling they've chosen with their lines but it didn't stop them from putting out their lines, and that applies to some of the "more established breeders". For instance, look at how many people pop JJ-NYC's gear and make a bunch of F1's. but at the same time if someone finds a stellar male, should they keep it to themselves? Or bring the dank to the public?

I agree, doing work to find your own male is key. Now I think the answer to your question lies in whether or not they are remaking the exact strain/f2 and Will they be selling same said strain for profit.

Lets be real- if you actually can get some original stardawg beans there very easily may be a worthy male in the original generation. I just did a decent pop and found a male that looks better than any female out of all the stardawg Ive popped period. Obviously ill flower him and number 2 out to see if they are keeper worthy- but if they are, they are. as long as Im not making f2's of stardawg, what i choose to use it for shouldn't be an issue. I mean look at Obs NBK male, nobody questions that since he is reputable and considered a real breeder.

 

[true grit]

every breeder you ever heard of used someone else's work to start, and lied and said it was bag seed. don't care what they say, the key is..giving credit. The guys that whine about people using their pollen for crosses are rediiuculas. This thing is all of ours.. no fucking patents on DNA , no bullshit.. its ours.. all of ours and people have been working on it for ever.

Now this is true too, I was discussing this with an old school breeder and he was saying many of todays genetics lineages are BS. Just stories put out by breeders so that work could not be duplicated.

I myself am working on chucking and breeding- learning to chuck for public demand ie fems, and learning breeding practices for personal in house use and preservation. Anything Im f2'ing or trying to further, I dont want available to mainstream to dupe or more importantly for big biz to take and use a true m/f to DNA map, reproduce, and patent etc. if that makes sense.

 

[lollipopman]

Here's my take. I'm in a non med state so going down to the nearest corner to get any strain I want isn't going to happen. So if joe blow wants to do some pollen chucken and sell what he/she did I'm totally cool with it. So thank you to all the wanna be seed company's for giving me the opportunity to grow this wonderful plant..

 

[justblazen]

I agree, doing work to find your own male is key. Now I think the answer to your question lies in whether or not they are remaking the exact strain/f2 and Will they be selling same said strain for profit.

Lets be real- if you actually can get some original stardawg beans there very easily may be a worthy male in the original generation. I just did a decent pop and found a male that looks better than any female out of all the stardawg Ive popped period. Obviously ill flower him and number 2 out to see if they are keeper worthy- but if they are, they are. as long as Im not making f2's of stardawg, what i choose to use it for shouldn't be an issue. I mean look at Obs NBK male, nobody questions that since he is reputable and considered a real breeder.

Right, he took the time to find a champion of a male and is bringing the fire with his crosses as usual.

I hear ya w big pharma coming into play. Things are going to get real interesting with the legalization of mj in the states and all of the big money investors looking to get a piece of the pie.

 

[MrRightBrain]

They will force nothing but Auto Flowers onto the home grower.
auto flower to me is like a virus. it's like cheap Chinese shit.. it costs the same and takes the same amount of time to put together.. but its a piece of shit.

i will never support these things.. its the weed for the "consumer" wtf grows this shit anyway?

 

[wobbly goblin]

Right, he took the time to find a champion of a male and is bringing the fire with his crosses as usual

not sure how much time it took to look at some seedlings and notice one was particularly resinous as per his postings on the rag
btw.. not a dis on obs just a fact
has anybody grown out the progeny on those to see how they really are?

back to the original thread...
my thoughts... if you bought the seeds? you own them... breed em, sell em, do whatever you want with em because they are yours
if you got them as testers or freebies? you have no rights to them so grow em and be done

@truegrit....amongst the stock from dj in 2012 were 5 packs of stardog(amonst other td stuff)
all are gc'd and the highest dozen will be f2'd when i find time
some nice green phenos and some nice dark phenos in the bunch

fwiw

 

[justblazen]

not sure how much time it took to look at some seedlings and notice one was particularly resinous as per his postings on the rag
btw.. not a dis on obs just a fact
has anybody grown out the progeny on those to see how they really are?

back to the original thread...
my thoughts... if you bought the seeds? you own them... breed em, sell em, do whatever you want with em because they are yours
if you got them as testers or freebies? you have no rights to them so grow em and be done

@truegrit....amongst the stock from dj in 2012 were 5 packs of stardog(amonst other td stuff)
all are gc'd and the highest dozen will be f2'd when i find time
some nice green phenos and some nice dark phenos in the bunch

fwiw

Makingoo has a TK killer thread that seems to be putting out some fire. And I've seen a few others w good results on IG.

 

[symbiote420]

Whatever I buy or is given to me becomes mine, right? ...unless (in the case of a gift/testers) I was given specifics by the breeder like no passing, etc. This may sound harsh but if anybody wanna keep their genetics on lock don't sell em to the public, plain & simple .....@true grit summed it up in his posts ....and a couple others but that's just what I was a bout to type bro. Making and selling F2s is very unethical, now buying seeds and finding a male or female in a pack(s) and using it is just a part of the game and should never be frowned upon in my eyes. I thought about selling beans awhile back but after seeing so much controversy over the years I think it could compromise my passion ....no amount of $$$$ on the planet is worth that!!

 

[colostoney]

Folks that know me know I have worked very very hard the last few years on a couple few projects that because a nuttin other than jealous hate I basically gotta sorta keep secret all the time and it sucks.

That in itself makes me feel sneaky or shady and I'm anything but anything like that I'm balls out to everyone I am not ashamed a nothing. I've also shared a ton a extremely valuable n sought after gear with a lot a folks on every continent but Antarctica and all totally free or in swaps but still even the folks I share with put up with nothing short a abuse because of it. And people wonder why names and genetic origins get hidden n twisted? Well it is not all about deception. Say I've worked something four or five years of an original from a breeder I acquired fair n square in a swap and just by chance and luck and skill my F2 generation I shared free everywhere was 90% better than the original breeders f3 is that my fault? Should I be ashamed? NO why because I selected for old school dankness from a genetic line a plants I know as well or better than the breeder and I wasn't as interested in massive yields off a type a herb known to yield small as I was knock out dank extremely mean HERB? lmfao well that is why weed is advancing so slow as far as quality if at all and why so many of the best talent out there in breeding get bitter and say fuck everyone. And ya know fuck if I ever give this work up from here either but when I put my name in front of it fuck sake know why. people are cocks out there.

people get mean as fuck about breeding but only if you are good at it so I've learned to not worry about it or be tickled by the hate and just keep names n shit to myself

 

[trippinballz]

There was a time when the standard practice was to offer up seeds for testing and from those efforts/exposures/build a reputation based on the quality and stability of your offering.
If you were on OG/other forums back in the day you saw it play out like that time and time again.

Now things are different. Today folks BUY their name/way in. No experience necessary. $2500, an EGO the size of a bus, some STS, and some clones you were given ..... and you are an instant "breeder". Name "your" strains after toys and Star Wars kinda shit and the kids will simply eat it up. 6 months later....you are a legend...until,,,that is....your unstable "work" is questioned./exposed. Then you take your spoils/easy cash and run away all butt hurt.

caveat emptor. It's all you can do. (beside making your own seeds and ignoring it all)

 

[MrRightBrain]

say i take mn ssh, i find a craaaaaaazy pheno and cross it with something amazing, stabilize that and market it as something new, rename it and give none of the people credit who went to jail or worse, to better these strains.

This is unethical and much douch-baggery, but it's what is happening.

i hear people , breeders talk about their wish that they could patent DNA, and control genetics.
The door this opens a really shitty evil place.

imagine all tomatoes , or cows or milk strains patented, imagine not being able to create freely, grow freely your food... we are 90% of the way there right now, being poisoned by our own fucking government, the answer is NOT controlling everything, making as much money as possible.

if that is your answer, then the frame of your entire belief system is.. fuck everyone else, live for today, get as much as possible as fast as possible, use use use.. then you are nearing extinction.