Dj short was the last of his kind. Dont think well see anyone taking seeds from a diff continent and breeding with a native land race from another. To each his own if you were really conserned you would make your own seeds and stop crying to the breeders.
Just my opinion. Tske it with a grain of salt.
Happy farmin yall;)

Nowadays there is more show than breeding. Most of the outstanding strains, are just parents or clones. Most of them are lucky hits and not the result of breeding. Stable regular seed lines are getting rarer and rarer. All go the easy way.

But when I see the peoples reactions when per exemple I say "15 weeks flowering", then I must believe that it is the grower who buys the seeds, who is unethical and not the breeder who just provides what the market wants. And every breeder wants a part of the cake and it is understandable that some breeders that were ethical in the past, now have to adapt themself to the games/markets new rules.

its the selling part that makes it questionable.. i feel like you can breed/cross/f2/ do whatver you want if the beans are for personal use or just to give away to the community to try out.. but when you come in and try to get paid then it doesnt look right. ive done a lot of breeding and given every single seed away.. never made a dollar off a seed.. i was doing a lot of one offs, or finding nice males and hitting em to however many nice cuts i had at the moment with no intention of making money but with the intentions of finding nice stuff to keep breeding and working to maybe one day make money.. ive always had plans of dropping seeds but it will not be until ive worked something extensively and created something unique and amazing.

i have 100's of seed packs of insane genetics over the years that definitely have some gems in them but at this point im running all my own gear and working it further to find a few males that are completely my work and then i could go from there.

if you want to be a breeder i'd say work on making and finding a male to be the backbone of your company or what not. this could take a few years because as we all know breeding takes a lot of patience. you'll know when youre ready to come out.. always test everything, thats the best way to see if youve found a nice male.. you gotta see how the offspring comes out and then go from there. u cant just pick a male, make a cross and hope it works.

earn your keep.. theres breeders here that have been making stuff and giving them away for years without ever selling a single seed.. im sure they will sell seeds when theyre good and ready and when they do theyll have the respect and there will be people out there that can vouch for them and even grow logs all over the internet.. then theres people that dont do that at all and just show up with some made up ass company with some trendy crosses of whatever the hype clone onlys are and charge 100 plus a pack. lets not support these people please.

also work on a preservation project to get some practice in and earn your stripes. find a line you really like and work it.. make f2s and keep making selections and get it down.. then give these away for free to the community. look what people have done with the 88 g13/hp that ndnguy has preserved for so long.. thanks to him and others like mota we will always have that gem because so many people have preserved it and passed them out for free. ive been fucking with the herijuana for a few years just playing around with it, i still have about 4 packs of it.. ill probably keep playing with that one for years just for fun cuz i think its a nice old school strain that should be kept around forever.

i dont know how people can find a quick male from say a rare dankness pack, cross it to some trendy clone only like cookies and sell seeds for $150 and not even feel fucked up about it..

also it seems like when people fem or s1 clone only cuts its ok to sell packs at $200.. wtf?? how are you gonna sell a pack of seeds for $200 that you didnt even work?? i feel like these should be the cheap packs or freebies.. but then again there are so many people in parts of the world where theyll never have access to these cuts so they are more then willing to pay 200 and then there are breeders that are more then willing to take full advantage of those folks. gotta give credit to the kind souls on this forum that make s1s of almost impossible cuts to get and give them out for free.

seems like the game is a mess right now.

you want a few breeders to look up to ethics wise.. look at mota, bodhi, topdawg. those guys have really put some work in.

Well then whats the difference between sellings seeds and selling flowers? I mean why is it ok to buy elite seeds and grow out the plants and sell the weed but not make seeds and sell those? Where does it all begin and end lol.i see this same damn argument over and over about the prices of
Seeds, dont matter if its clone only s1 or f10, nobody forces us to pay those higher prices.
like how many knockoffs of zippo lighters are out there being sold? Why the seed biz is any different than lighters or car parts is beyond me lol.

:eek:I'm a shitty business man bottom line, I can admit it. Imagine the better business Bureau complaints lol

^^ youre right.. that argument is always there.. its up to the buyer.. we dont have to buy the stuff at certain prices, i was just dropping my opinion and ive actually bought a lot of s1 packs at high prices. so whether i agreed with it or not i bought them cuz i wanted them. ive also bought a lot of one off f1 crosses because i wanted them.. i didnt really think too much into the ethics of it so you are right on that level.

another arguement is we dont own any of it so who really cares.

i guess with legalization happening theres gonna be a lot of breeders and companys popping up, some legit and some trying to make a quick buck so people are curious to whats the ethical way to go about things and whats not.

we look more into it then most people cuz were in the middle of it watching it all happen right here on these forums. so we all have our opinions.

i guess the best thing would be to look into breeders and strains before making purchases. just like any other product.

Yeah I have paid 200 bucks for s1 on a few occasions and never thought twice about it because I wanted to grow and smoke those genetics. I have also made my share of crosses and passed them out for free with the understanding the people receiving them could do whatever they wanted with them.it just makes me lol when I read some guy saying hey those are my genetics, thats my Chemdog he used to make seeds, like even chem himself cant bitch imo because unless he went up the mountain and pulled seeds from a landrace they were never really his.and even if you did pull seeds off a mountain top, those plants were not yours, they are ours imo.everyone should have equal rights to those landraces imo.but if we keep on this hoarding mentality it will look like the corn industry in no time and one guy will have the patents to many strains and seed prices will skyrocket.price has nothing to do with it, we dictate price by our purchases.but this ethics side of the story gets twisted all the time in many threads around the net.i guess all breeders should come right out and post a rules or disclaimer when listing their gear that says if you buy my seeds you cant use them for anything other than growing and smoking lmao.still dont think it would stop any of this, and like I said multiple times, im thankful guys take the time to source and s1 seeds so we can all have access to the best of the best.
imo you gotta have big balls to come on this particular site and complain about paying 200 for s1 seeds , im happy as hell I paid 200.00 for my chem x gsc and I would do it again in a heartbeat @logic

I am working hard on the lucky Charm OG
Bohdi's Appalacian x The White
X
Apothcary's
Ghost Og
Started with three runs of the lucky charms to identify the Appalacian pheno's from the white
With a couple being fruity n frosty
& couple being chemy an big low leaf to flower nugs
The ghost OG had 9 males in the one pack & the lucky charms had 5 males in one pack
The ghost OG was a very indica dominate strain.Earthy huge leaves an very sleepy medicine. The leaves had 9 -11 fingers
Where the lucky charms was good for just 5-7
The first time I pollinated I had cloned an flowered the strains 3 times before crossing
I wanted a low leaf to flower / mold resistant / high thc/ as well as one that the finished in 7-8 weeks.
Now after running the cross 3 times to identify pheno's I am starting an S2
With still very many S1's on deck I am Building a bomb S2.
Five moms of fire I am cutting clones from, & I have 18 males in the flower room right now & I will be using the biggest strongest stinky well structured male.
Super Male
Not Pee Wee Hermie.

The more people involved in breeding, the better.

As this hobby moves out of the shade, home breeding will increase.
Less restrictions mean seeds and clones could be theoretically sent
domestically with ease. Cannabis seeds would be a breeze to mail.
Cost of a stamp...

We are headed to an era of both large scale commercial-ag style selection, and
an explosion of small scale home breeders. There are literally thousands of
registered tomato cultivars, most done by hobbyists. Why can't Cannabis
be the same way?

It is hobbyists who will grow and preserve the land-race genetics,same as they
always have. Commercial Ag has no interest in a 24 week Thai sativa or a slow
indica that yields terribly...but hobbyists DO care about those varieties.

The breeder determined what he believed his work should cost.
The grower purchased those genetics for an agreed upon value.
The resulting plants do not belong to the breeder, credit or otherwise.
If growers want varieties with verifiable pedigreed history, breeders will offer it.

More people working on Cannabis means better Cannabis for everyone.

If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.

QuantumGen said:

If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.

Click to expand...

Lol, Amen

QuantumGen said:

If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.

Click to expand...

Well said @QuantumGen .

FYI, a F2 will have more genetic variation and look at the parents than a F1. Plenty of F1's have become some of the best hybrids we've experienced in this industry. I do understand the need to refine and breed true but F1 hybrid vigor is a thing of beauty.

QuantumGen said:

If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.

Click to expand...

I would have loved to get high with this guy and talk about crazy shit. Like the ramifications of consciousness being the 5th universal force.

QuantumGen said:

. Like the ramifications of consciousness being the 5th universal force.

Click to expand...

I'm surprised consciousness isn't the first..

I'm not stating that breeding certain characteristics isn't beneficial but I may be breeding things true for traits that benefit me and my setups and may not be things every gardener is picking specimens for. I like to let the gardener pick what they like from the F1 and do the F2 with traits they care for emphasized. Obviously a ton of folks don't have the time or space to create F2's and that's why I'm working various things to the F4 and am working on a few now. But, again I think the relationship between the grower and the plants, allows the grower to intimately pick traits they like from the gene pool and continue with them in any fashion they see fit.

Biggest thing is just telling people where you sourced it from and not lying :D
We all share the genetics and nobody owns them, as a group we need to do our best to keep lineage transparent. If the herb is that good, it doesn't matter what you call it, they will want it again and again :cool:;)

I enjoy looking thru F1's and have no issues with it for that simple reason baba G...I like to find what works for me...and continue with it or change it by chucking or breeding whatever category you fall in or feel you fall in...

Personally I like to communicate with the breeder's out of respect...when doing something with their crosses...after crossed I consider them my creation...whatever I find in them beans are a representation of me...phenos I have chosen...etc..etc

As far as transparency...I think you should be as honest as you can about the history of your cut up to the point where you received said cut...the lying comes in when someone works something they weren't supposed...example a cut with restrictions...which creates riff's

I think what the industry is actually turning back into is an industry where you pick a breeder for the things that fit your needs...you will start to follow a breeder and follow there work. Maybe they have a similar grow style...maybe they feel as tho they share the same thoughts as the breeder. Either way I think we are in the times where breeders will begin to create followings...

Much Respect!

KarmaKingz said:

This belongs on billboards, and tshirts!!!
Cheers

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K.K. I cosign on your reply cool cat ! ! ! Billboards-t'shirts-entrance to college dorms, and the most important place this could be "placed" - right along the backs of two MMA fighters in the 186th super special combo knockout round series......but seen only after they've ripped off their TapOut t'shirts.

Smile (with freshly chewed bits of cannabis hiding between the tools of our mouth used to grind said cannabis.....)

BakedReality said:

I enjoy looking thru F1's and have no issues with it for that simple reason baba G...I like to find what works for me...and continue with it or change it by chucking or breeding whatever category you fall in or feel you fall in...

Personally I like to communicate with the breeder's out of respect...when doing something with their crosses...after crossed I consider them my creation...whatever I find in them beans are a representation of me...phenos I have chosen...etc..etc

As far as transparency...I think you should be as honest as you can about the history of your cut up to the point where you received said cut...the lying comes in when someone works something they weren't supposed...example a cut with restrictions...which creates riff's

I think what the industry is actually turning back into is an industry where you pick a breeder for the things that fit your needs...you will start to follow a breeder and follow there work. Maybe they have a similar grow style...maybe they feel as tho they share the same thoughts as the breeder. Either way I think we are in the times where breeders will begin to create followings...

Much Respect!

Click to expand...

Spoken like a true visionary. We are already there brother, take a quick peep around. It's gangs, crews, cliques just Foaming at the mouth. Waiting to defend, bandwagon ride, or jockey whatever breeder they feel they can slick beans from. It's rather ugly and slimeballish. But your right, that's where we headed. I guess I'll brace for this change.
Cheers

Unique work towards flowers never seen before or flowers never felt before will stand out .....right now only a couple breeders stand out in that category, watch out for the ugly duckling is making a comeback, we should be crossing killer potent plant to preserve potency......
There are already TOO MANY pretty pretendo plants that bling out of control and yield like monsters BUT leave the pothead like me who is light weight wanting more than powers of observation.


Dont THINK....
Feeeeeel!