Experienced Breeder & Pollen Chuckers Help!

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ShikataGaNai

ShikataGaNai

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Hi to everyone !
Im planning to make a seed for a backup of my plants beside clones.
This is not my first time to polinate a plant.
But this is my first to do a F1 and R1 with the same plant.
If i ever reversed a plant using STS and pollinate the other branches with another male pollen.
Will be my offsprings will be fine ?
or this will cause a high rate of hermies?
 
hyzerflip

hyzerflip

322
63
What you're creating is an S1 (selfed generation 1), there's no such thing as an R1.

Hermaphrodism is just like any other trait - S1s are no more likely to be hermaphroditic, provided neither of the parents are prone to hermaphrodism. If you needed STS or another reversing agent to get it to produce pollen, the progeny almost certainly won't have problems.
 
Mr Bee

Mr Bee

3,777
263
Hi to everyone !
Im planning to make a seed for a backup of my plants beside clones.
This is not my first time to polinate a plant.
But this is my first to do a F1 and R1 with the same plant.
If i ever reversed a plant using STS and pollinate the other branches with another male pollen.
Will be my offsprings will be fine ?
or this will cause a high rate of hermies?
What u do is take cuttings "reverse" one with your sts once in bloom to produce fertile pollen then use that pollon to pollinate the other cuts to make fem seed.i personally haven't actually done it yet but @william76 has experience with successfully making fem seeds so he should be able to tell you a bit more about how to time it right etc
 
ShikataGaNai

ShikataGaNai

39
18
What you're creating is an S1 (selfed generation 1), there's no such thing as an R1.

Hermaphrodism is just like any other trait - S1s are no more likely to be hermaphroditic, provided neither of the parents are prone to hermaphrodism. If you needed STS or another reversing agent to get it to produce pollen, the progeny almost certainly won't have problems.
Sorry for the term. Ok lets say it is the S1 but how about if i pollinate the other branch with natural male pollen beside the pollen from reversed. Is the offspring of the natural male pollen will be affected too?
 
ShikataGaNai

ShikataGaNai

39
18
Yea,if u can get colloidal silver i can tell u how to do it!their is plenty threads too,that tell u how to do it though,76
Thanks man !
But i already bought the gears for making the sts solution :(
Although i will definetly reach you if i will make a CS :D anyway . how much is your ppm that u use ?
 
william76

william76

2,633
263
My cs solution is usually 40/50 ppms,i think its the same method using sts, u spray it daily from 14 days before flip till at least 14 days after flip,as soon as flowers start to appear i stop spraying,u dont have to smother it either,just a lite spray all over,76
 
Mr Bee

Mr Bee

3,777
263
My cs solution is usually 40/50 ppms,i think its the same method using sts, u spray it daily from 14 days before flip till at least 14 days after flip,as soon as flowers start to appear i stop spraying,u dont have to smother it either,just a lite spray all over,76
Iv been thinking about reversing your cut of a dawg and hitting the gg4,Chemdog D,gsc and doing s1.but I'm a dreamer.i still have the cs u sent me about 2 years ago.lol.
Also while I have u here-what's the flower time on that haze cut I sent a good while back?i put it into flower and it shot right up tall with a big tall main stem but it was too tall so before it started putting out lots of flowers I chopped off the main cola.
It's at about six weeks now.cookie plants I flipped at the same time are looking almost done were as this haze is as white as an indica Dom plant is at3/4 weeks which is making me think it's going to be atleast a11/12 weeker?
 
ShikataGaNai

ShikataGaNai

39
18
My cs solution is usually 40/50 ppms,i think its the same method using sts, u spray it daily from 14 days before flip till at least 14 days after flip,as soon as flowers start to appear i stop spraying,u dont have to smother it either,just a lite spray all over,76
Thanks for the info buddy !
Do the premade CS with same ppm at amazon works too ?
 
william76

william76

2,633
263
Iv been thinking about reversing your cut of a dawg and hitting the gg4,Chemdog D,gsc and doing s1.but I'm a dreamer.i still have the cs u sent me about 2 years ago.lol.
Also while I have u here-what's the flower time on that haze cut I sent a good while back?i put it into flower and it shot right up tall with a big tall main stem but it was too tall so before it started putting out lots of flowers I chopped off the main cola.
It's at about six weeks now.cookie plants I flipped at the same time are looking almost done were as this haze is as white as an indica Dom plant is at3/4 weeks which is making me think it's going to be atleast a11/12 weeker?
Usualy at least ten weeks maybe 11 mr bee,she speeds up abit ,i normaly have her done/finished at ten,i top and train her from the start,took me a while to work her out right,mostly shes a fast grower.feel ur brain roll wen u smoke her,wen shes dryed her smell gets everywhere from the smallest bit,inscence haze smell,76
 
NightsWatch

NightsWatch

428
93
R1's (aka Reversed F1's): When feminized pollen is used to pollinate a different female than the pollen donor. R1's will tend to act like a tradional male x female cross, only all female, while S1's appear to have some different properties that are not yet fully understood. Early reports indicatee that S1's are more consistent than R1's on average, but there are many exceptions, and more research is needed.

BC1 or Bx1: The first backcross generation, ie when an F1 or R1 progeny is crossed back to an F0 parent. Backcrossing can increase the influence of either parent, but continued backcrossing is too much inbreeding, according to both DJ Short and Rezdog, and should be used rarely if at all. One or two backcrosses followed by full-sib mating has beena successful strategy for many breeders, including the creator of Northern Lights.
 
NightsWatch

NightsWatch

428
93

What you're creating is an S1 (selfed generation 1), there's no such thing as an R1.

Hermaphrodism is just like any other trait - S1s are no more likely to be hermaphroditic, provided neither of the parents are prone to hermaphrodism. If you needed STS or another reversing agent to get it to produce pollen, the progeny almost certainly won't have problems.


An S1, or selfed first generation, comes from a female that pollinates herself, be it by natural or forced show of stamen that pollinates the pistols of the plant.
An R1, or reversed first generation, uses pollen from one female plant to pollinate a separate female plant, perhaps a sibling..but not a clone of itself which would be an S1.

When the genes of two plants meet, the chromosomes all get thrown into a proverbial bag, shaken well, and thrown out in different combination.
The resulting progeny show characteristics of both plants in various ways.
Often times when recombining two plants that are polar opposites of one another, ie...a short season indica and a long flowering sativa, the resulting progeny will often show a good high degree of hybrid vigor and health.

On the other hand, if we breed two sibling plants, or plants of the same strain, the resulting progeny are far less diverse. A continuation of generation of a cross of similar genetics can eventually run into a phenomenon of inbreeding depression. The genetic material available (or lack of) for each subsequent breeding can lead the plant to less vigor and sometimes mutations that were once latent, can now show themselves.

When we force a female to pollinate herself, she has a stand of DNA that contains her genes, which is bred to an identical strand of genes. If we think about it, we have cut the available genetic material in half when we self a female. And the result can often times lead to the inbreeding depression I mentioned.

Yes, the two genetic maps of a forced female and herself are identical, but they get shaken up in the proverbial bag I mentioned, and the result can be close to the original but not always. It will depend on how the shake out takes.
Thing is, we have shorted ourself genetic material when we create an S1 and luck must be with us if we are to hope to get seeds that will be identical to the mother and donor.
And we will still need to do a grow and selection of the progeny to find the ones that shook out similar to the moms. We simply can't trust that S1 seeds will result in the same plant. Chances are there that it can, but also that it won't.

A pollination for R1 seeds is almost identical to using a full on male for pollination. The recombination will take place exactly the same, only there will be no male chromosome to work with.
 
Mr Bee

Mr Bee

3,777
263
Usualy at least ten weeks maybe 11 mr bee,she speeds up abit ,i normaly have her done/finished at ten,i top and train her from the start,took me a while to work her out right,mostly shes a fast grower.feel ur brain roll wen u smoke her,wen shes dryed her smell gets everywhere from the smallest bit,inscence haze smell,76
It seems fairly hungry for N.the cut I'm running is really light green but it's been darkening up a bit since I upped the grow nutes.i,lol keep u posted with how it goes.because I topped it AFTER it was flipped I don't think it's going to yield too much but that's my fault.i thought at the time it would b better to chop off the top before it put too much energy into it thinking I would make up the weight on the remaining tops but it's not worked that way.lol.fuck it I,ll still get a decent bit of quality smoke.
I'm really digging your cut of a dawg.a real good producer of big dank Chemdog D smelling nugs except with that wee added extra sweet smell on top of the repugnant Chemdog D smell plus much bigger and denser nugs than Chemdog D and on a better frame too!ali gee killed it with those didn't he?a good mix of quality and yield.
 
william76

william76

2,633
263
It seems fairly hungry for N.the cut I'm running is really light green but it's been darkening up a bit since I upped the grow nutes.i,lol keep u posted with how it goes.because I topped it AFTER it was flipped I don't think it's going to yield too much but that's my fault.i thought at the time it would b better to chop off the top before it put too much energy into it thinking I would make up the weight on the remaining tops but it's not worked that way.lol.fuck it I,ll still get a decent bit of quality smoke.
I'm really digging your cut of a dawg.a real good producer of big dank Chemdog D smelling nugs except with that wee added extra sweet smell on top of the repugnant Chemdog D smell plus much bigger and denser nugs than Chemdog D and on a better frame too!ali gee killed it with those didn't he?a good mix of quality and yield.
Yea,i luv it too,going to pop another pack after xmas,find a good male,never kept the last 1.every female last time were quality,males were nice too,hard to pick a keeper,has she turned black for u yet?she does it with cold temps,aligee done a goox job,iv a few of his other packs too,was thinking of popping his sour cookies too,76
 
HiPlainDrftr

HiPlainDrftr

38
18
@ShikataGaNai - for your original question-
If i ever reversed a plant using STS and pollinate the other branches with another male pollen.
Will be my offsprings will be fine ?

From what I've seen CS solutions only travels up the stem. If the other branches are shielded from the mist, the seeds created on those branches should be unaffected.

I'd be more worried about cross contamination with your situation though. If one branch is reversed and throwing pollen, how do you keep it from pollinating the other branches that you dusted with male pollen? It can be done, you just gotta get creative.

I'd suggest pollen socks/bags.
 
william76

william76

2,633
263
@ShikataGaNai - for your original question-


From what I've seen CS solutions only travels up the stem. If the other branches are shielded from the mist, the seeds created on those branches should be unaffected.

I'd be more worried about cross contamination with your situation though. If one branch is reversed and throwing pollen, how do you keep it from pollinating the other branches that you dusted with male pollen? It can be done, you just gotta get creative.

I'd suggest pollen socks/bags.
Yea,u make a bag out of traceing paper,or greaseproof paper,even plain white paper,put the bag on firstthen make a cut in bag where u want to pollinate,use a brush or tweezers to add the pollen,then seal bag with a bit sticky,leave for a day or 2,then cut bag,spray with a little water to kill any pollen left,thats it done,been explained in a few other threads too,easy enuff without pollinateing other plants!,76
 
ShikataGaNai

ShikataGaNai

39
18
Thank You All Guys !
I really learned a lot from this thread
by the way i already misting (reversing) my Pure AK with STS Solution that i made today.
Few more days i will switch them to Flowering Stage :D

I prefer my Pure AK #3 to be the mother of my seeds.
if ever Shit from mr nice turns male. ill also hit her with MNS Shit pollen :D
So its going to be like ?

- Pure AK S1 (feminized)
- Pure AK x Shit
 
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