G
Greenery
- 5
- 3
Quit pussyfooting around about the price. Get the methodsevens and call it a day. They protect from all things sketchy.
ttystikk
- 6,892
- 313
Back to the basic subject of this thread for a moment; I originally posted this in watts s lumens per square foot thread, but felt it could use being copied and pasted here:
ALL HID bulbs emit UV, the amount and type vary between bulbs but if you read the warning labels, they're very clear; do NOT attempt to look at or work around a bulb if its outer glass jacket is broken or you will receive UV radiation burns! I know for sure the old mercury vapor bulbs were the worst in this regard, it stands to reason that the next highest UV emitter is MH and HPS emitting the least. Least is NOT zero, so wear protection.
Gavita, well known for making reflectors without glass because of the efficiency advantages, has a glass cover on its 300w LEP plasma reflector for the same reason. LED manufacturers also recommend not looking at LED lights in operation and suggest eye protection for extended exposure.
This is why you want to wear sunglasses anytime you're in a grow room with HID/Plasma/LED lights on; UV damage to the eye is cumulative and leads to macular degeneration and other problems. My grandmother lived in high and dry Colorado for most of her life, and developed macular degeneration without ever setting foot in an indoor growroom.
It turns out that CFL and HO T5 lights also emit UV; again, good for plants, not so good for our eyes.
It is not strictly necessary to spend hundreds of dollars on effective eye protection; I get Berkeley brand polarized UV blocking sunglasses for $5 at Walmart in the fishing section. These cover your eyes well and deliver excellent protection, as the were developed to allow anglers to stare diretctly into the water and see fish, regardless of sun glare or UV conditions. Any protection is much better than none.
ALL HID bulbs emit UV, the amount and type vary between bulbs but if you read the warning labels, they're very clear; do NOT attempt to look at or work around a bulb if its outer glass jacket is broken or you will receive UV radiation burns! I know for sure the old mercury vapor bulbs were the worst in this regard, it stands to reason that the next highest UV emitter is MH and HPS emitting the least. Least is NOT zero, so wear protection.
Gavita, well known for making reflectors without glass because of the efficiency advantages, has a glass cover on its 300w LEP plasma reflector for the same reason. LED manufacturers also recommend not looking at LED lights in operation and suggest eye protection for extended exposure.
This is why you want to wear sunglasses anytime you're in a grow room with HID/Plasma/LED lights on; UV damage to the eye is cumulative and leads to macular degeneration and other problems. My grandmother lived in high and dry Colorado for most of her life, and developed macular degeneration without ever setting foot in an indoor growroom.
It turns out that CFL and HO T5 lights also emit UV; again, good for plants, not so good for our eyes.
It is not strictly necessary to spend hundreds of dollars on effective eye protection; I get Berkeley brand polarized UV blocking sunglasses for $5 at Walmart in the fishing section. These cover your eyes well and deliver excellent protection, as the were developed to allow anglers to stare diretctly into the water and see fish, regardless of sun glare or UV conditions. Any protection is much better than none.
El Cerebro
- 1,197
- 113
I'm more worried about IR, as you guys pointed out most any sunglasses these days have you covered on the UV end for the amount coming from our bulbs.
outwest
Premium Gardener
Supporter
- 4,629
- 263
This is what I wear in the garden.
outwest
outwest
WalterWhiteFire
- 1,458
- 263
Hahahaha hilarious... My boy at the grow shop says wearing sun glasses is worse than wearing nothing. Something about it collecting the rays on the back of the lens... Hustler...
El Cerebro
- 1,197
- 113
Alright, this thread is pushing me to do it, I already have a lot of eye strain and still have some lingering sodium-flash afterward even with the torch shades (or more likely cause I have to take them off too much). Where's the best deal on the m7s? Anything else in that high-end league I should consider before just going with those?
Now I'm fairly accustomed to averting my eyes, and use a hat while working, but you guys who have them, colors aside, if you actually look right at a 1k for a couple seconds and then look away, do you still have a little flash leftover or do the m7s eliminate that completely?
Now I'm fairly accustomed to averting my eyes, and use a hat while working, but you guys who have them, colors aside, if you actually look right at a 1k for a couple seconds and then look away, do you still have a little flash leftover or do the m7s eliminate that completely?
outwest
Premium Gardener
Supporter
- 4,629
- 263
I would look into the $25 pair posted earlier in this thread. I have the m7s, and they are amazing, but I think the added price is for their stylish look an high end construction. I believe they both serve the same purpose.
outwest
outwest
El Cerebro
- 1,197
- 113
Prob one of the threads deleted with the site upgrade
Thx, missed those somehow, gonna check them too, maybe order both return one.
deep buddy
- 715
- 93
yep if you get regular glasses get the ones that are mirrored on the inside. like the method 7's arent they made in italy? i wear serengettis they arent much cheaper bout 150 but i like em and they are glass not plastic.
deep buddy
- 715
- 93
dude what is your avatar from
El Cerebro
- 1,197
- 113
Creepy, huh? Aphex Twin, a rather odd musician leadsled turned us onto.
There's definitely more to those glasses than just the tint, maybe that coating on the backside. Probably not something special just for m7, would be nice to know a term for that type of lens?
deep buddy
- 715
- 93
i fuckin knew that was richard
hell yeah my buddy used to use the track ventolin to test audio systems back in the 90s richard d james is legend
whazzup
- 81
- 33
The glass filter in the plasma light is to filter out UVC which is dangerous for the eyes when looked in at short distance, the special glass transmits UVA and UVB which is good for the plants. Though all HID arc tubes indeed emit some or a lot of UV light (specifically MH and mercury lamps, every lamp with mercury in it emits UV - this is how CFLs work!) most lamps have a UV shielding outer balloon. The lamps that do emit UV light or can cause dangerous UV radiation when broken (specifically MH!!!) are not rated suitable for an open fixture and need a glass shield that protects you from UV and specifically UVC when a lamps outer balloon breaks. Actually they need a completely closed fixture, not one with large flanges for air cooling, as a breaking lamp of exploding lamp can cause very hot particles and dangerous heavy metals to be distributed through your ducting (therefor always use the fan to push air through a air cooled fixture to prevent fan damage by hot air and particles in your ducting). A HPS lamp which is broken should also be replaced immediately, as it will radiate harmful UV light, but not to the extent of a MH of coure, which contains much more mercury. Many HPS lamps fail when imploding.
When it comes to HPS light: There are supposed to be shielded for UV light. A normal HPS lamp emits very little if any UV. That is the reason why it is allowed to use them in non-shielded hoods. When broken many fail anyways, but yes, they can cause some UV radiation as well. A MH when the outer balloon is broken is really dangerous, even at greater distances, as they do emit enormous amounts of UV light.
Let's take a commercial greenhouse as an example: They have thousands of HPS lights in open reflectors. If this would create a hazard for the personnel everyone in a greenhouse would be using protective clothing and glasses. That is not the case. Actually some greenhouses invest in special UVB transmitting greenhouse glass to allow UVB enter the greenhouse, as there is none whatsoever coming from the HID lamps and their glass roof does not transmit UVB. This is why plants need to harden under a shield after coming from a greenhouse before they go under direct sunlight. Try it with a cutting grown under high intensity indoor HPS lighting, put it directly in the sun: it will burn because of the UVB radiation, specifically in high summer when UVB levels are highest.
Bottom line:
- HPS lamps are safe to use in an open reflector. When broken, replace. You instantly know when a HPS lamp is broken: it implodes and may times the arc tube just fails when broken (but not always!). A failing HPS arc tube seldom explodes. We had 250W HPS lamps put to a stress test on a 1000W ballast. This causes the lamp to overheat and burn up fast, but they did not explode, though we encountered implosions when the wire frame bends and the hot wire frame touches the outer balloon. In many cases the implosion takes the arc tube with it. What you sometimes see with failing HPS lamps is leaking arc tubes. They do not cause the outer balloon to fail (rare footage: example on video)
- MH requires a lot more caution. First of all, check if they are suitable for an open fixture. Open fixture lamps have a special construction to prevent the arc tube from disintegrating when a lamp fails by a wire that holds it together, or an extra inner balloon, to prevent the outer balloon to scatter. With MH you see mostly a failure of the arc tube when things go wrong. In any case switch them off immediately if they fail. When behind glass most (if not all) of the UVB is already filtered out.
For your reference I included the spectrum of a HPS lamp. It is not a low-res manufacturer cut-off SPD to just show 400-700nm, but it also shows you the high IR peak and the spectrum below 400 nm (UVA, UVB). Now the sensor is less sensitive for anything below 300 nm, but it will give you a good idea. There is mostly sensor noise in this area, no reading. This is lab measurement.
Are sunglasses required in a grow room? With MH and open reflectors I would say they are an extra safety, they will provide protection for your eyes, as some MH do emit UV radiation and for sure when they break, that is a very dangerous situation. Buy your MH lamps form a reliable manufacturer who has taken precautions to limit UV radiation and block UVC, and always follow manufacturers instructions as for horizontal or universal position, and specifically open or closed fixtures. A glass shielded hood is safer with any MH or CMH lamp.
HPS lamps from all major manufacturers have UV blocking glass.
When it comes to HPS light: There are supposed to be shielded for UV light. A normal HPS lamp emits very little if any UV. That is the reason why it is allowed to use them in non-shielded hoods. When broken many fail anyways, but yes, they can cause some UV radiation as well. A MH when the outer balloon is broken is really dangerous, even at greater distances, as they do emit enormous amounts of UV light.
Let's take a commercial greenhouse as an example: They have thousands of HPS lights in open reflectors. If this would create a hazard for the personnel everyone in a greenhouse would be using protective clothing and glasses. That is not the case. Actually some greenhouses invest in special UVB transmitting greenhouse glass to allow UVB enter the greenhouse, as there is none whatsoever coming from the HID lamps and their glass roof does not transmit UVB. This is why plants need to harden under a shield after coming from a greenhouse before they go under direct sunlight. Try it with a cutting grown under high intensity indoor HPS lighting, put it directly in the sun: it will burn because of the UVB radiation, specifically in high summer when UVB levels are highest.
Bottom line:
- HPS lamps are safe to use in an open reflector. When broken, replace. You instantly know when a HPS lamp is broken: it implodes and may times the arc tube just fails when broken (but not always!). A failing HPS arc tube seldom explodes. We had 250W HPS lamps put to a stress test on a 1000W ballast. This causes the lamp to overheat and burn up fast, but they did not explode, though we encountered implosions when the wire frame bends and the hot wire frame touches the outer balloon. In many cases the implosion takes the arc tube with it. What you sometimes see with failing HPS lamps is leaking arc tubes. They do not cause the outer balloon to fail (rare footage: example on video)
- MH requires a lot more caution. First of all, check if they are suitable for an open fixture. Open fixture lamps have a special construction to prevent the arc tube from disintegrating when a lamp fails by a wire that holds it together, or an extra inner balloon, to prevent the outer balloon to scatter. With MH you see mostly a failure of the arc tube when things go wrong. In any case switch them off immediately if they fail. When behind glass most (if not all) of the UVB is already filtered out.
For your reference I included the spectrum of a HPS lamp. It is not a low-res manufacturer cut-off SPD to just show 400-700nm, but it also shows you the high IR peak and the spectrum below 400 nm (UVA, UVB). Now the sensor is less sensitive for anything below 300 nm, but it will give you a good idea. There is mostly sensor noise in this area, no reading. This is lab measurement.
Are sunglasses required in a grow room? With MH and open reflectors I would say they are an extra safety, they will provide protection for your eyes, as some MH do emit UV radiation and for sure when they break, that is a very dangerous situation. Buy your MH lamps form a reliable manufacturer who has taken precautions to limit UV radiation and block UVC, and always follow manufacturers instructions as for horizontal or universal position, and specifically open or closed fixtures. A glass shielded hood is safer with any MH or CMH lamp.
HPS lamps from all major manufacturers have UV blocking glass.
ttystikk
- 6,892
- 313
IR, or infrared radiation, is what you experience sitting in front of a hot surface, or a fire. Unless the heat source is extremely hot, it won't hurt your eyes. If that source IS hot enough to damage your eyes you'll know it, because your skin will be burning to a crisp. It's the other end of the light spectrum (UV) that leads to sunburn, cancer and eye damage. That's why you don't see sunglasses that tout their ability to stop IR... and in fact, as anyone with glass doors in front of their fireplace knows, glass does a heck of a job of limiting this radiation whether we want it to or not.
whazzup
- 81
- 33
Too much infrared can be a serious problem for your plants but not enough is a problem too which you see with LED grows. The sun has lots of infrared too, it's the balance though that makes a happy plant. Plants can take quite a beating, UV light for example enables plants to handle higher intensities easier.
Chobble
- 789
- 93
The moral of the story is to not stare into your bulbs. My eyes are always a little wierd when I come out from under the HPS.
Chobble
Chobble
outwest
Premium Gardener
Supporter
- 4,629
- 263
The glasses definitely give me a more accurate sense of color and detail, moreso then regular sunglasses.
outwest
outwest
generalgrievous
- 10
- 3
The m7's arrived in a day and a half ..and they're fookin awesome ..first time my eyes haven't hurt after work in a long time...
Sgt. goob ..our lamps are not as strong as the sun .. but they pump a lot of bad shit at your eyes ..point blank range...
Sgt. goob ..our lamps are not as strong as the sun .. but they pump a lot of bad shit at your eyes ..point blank range...
Chobble
- 789
- 93
Actually they are stronger then the sun on earth. A 1000 watt can produce 12000-13000 lumens per/sq foot as per the sun in summer is 10,000.
Chobble
sgt. schultz
- 282
- 28
Goob, I just googled it up. The sun is 100,000 lumens at least. Some Foster-Grants or Wally World 100% uv block glasses are more thsn plenty.
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