(Fatman's) DIY nutrient mixing guide

[Seamaiden]

I am surprised you feel you do not notice a difference. If I remember right you use double malted barley molasses which I really like with my Seaberry. It is too expensive to use 24/7 for me. I was paying 6 bucks a pt. Now I pay 18 bucks at a feedlot for 6 gal. for my molasses. JK

If you can try 3 strains you know, You will get a subtle similar taste in them. JK

I cannot detect a flavor, but I am told by others not to change what I'm doing.

The extract I use is actually made for homebrewing, it's the leftover quarts my husband never used. Now I think I'm out, not sure if I'm going to go buy another quart or what. But to clarify, it's malted barley extract, I'm not sure if it qualifies as a type of molasses (end result of sugar processing). If my grandfather were alive I could probably ask him, if he were in the right mood and all, farmed sugar cane since the late 30's so knows a bit about that sort of stuff.. Knew about that sort of stuff.

I do mix up the types of sugars, often according to what I have on hand. Cannot get bulk molasses locally, they just don't carry it and I can't convince them (local feed store) to bring it in. Apparently people who raise and "show" Quarter Horses have no problems keeping weight on these animals. Not so much the case with a lot of Arabs.

In any event, what you propose sounds like something I should experiment with. I've been working very, very hard on trying to get my sense of smell more sensitive again, not sure *how* to do it, but I try very hard to catch the scents other people talk about. I have read of others who insist they get a flavor off molasses that they don't like and so they use other sugars (en la isla, recuerdas?) but with an inability to actually smell what they're talking about, I'm not very close to tasting what they're talking about.

Google simple and complex sugar you can see the definitions and the different types and names of the sugar(carbs) JK

I avg 1.5 tsp/gal for all my sugars combined.

What forms? In other words, is this a dry or liquid measure? I ask because dry sugar is mostly sugar, almost all if not all moisture has been driven out, whereas anything that pours obviously has liquid in it and is, thusly, a lower percentage of sugar.

 

[Crysmatic]

http://www.ch.ic.ac.uk/vchemlib/mim/bristol/glucose/glucose_text.htm

what's the difference between one large dose of starch vs a bunch of small doses of glucose? an organism has to work harder to break down the starch. where in nature do you find glucose in soil?

seamaiden: i looked to make rum from feed store molasses, and they put a kind of oil in it (fish oil?). not too good for rum...probably fine for plants.

an adrenal deficiency will cause hightened sensitivity...become vegan.

edit: just thinking...cane sugar has all the nutrients of molasses, without the burnt sugar smell, doesn't go bad or ferment. i'd stay away from beet sugar (the byproducts are poisonous).

 

[girlwondergrows]

On Barley Malt: It is not a type of molasses. Molasses is a byproduct, it has very high levels of minerals and a lower level of sugars. Barley malt contains a high level of sugars, especially glucose and maltose. There are also some residual enzymes, though not many as the reducing process denatures most.

So, if you like the results of malted barley and want to substitute molasses you should use some additional sugars as well. If you want a cheap source of malted barley go to your local natural food store and order it from them. It normally comes in 1 or 5 gallon pails and is of a lower grade than the brewing stuff, normally being used in baking. Perfect for adding to your nutrients.





@organicfreak: I think you are confusing "simple sugars" and "simple syrup"- Simple sugars refers to very short chain carbohydrates, the shortest being glucose. When in doubt, ask wikipedia!

Simple syrup refers to a saturated mixture of sucrose and water.


Loving the thread!

 

[Seamaiden]

To clarify, I switch between the MBE and molasses, as well as other relatively unprocessed sugars. The MBE was diluted because it's so high in sugar that it's essentially one step beyond crystallization, extremely thick and the cooler the weather gets, the more unpourable it becomes. I'm out now, though, just used up the last of it. The dilution ratio was based on a very rough calculation of the total sugar content of the MBE compared to molasses, because I wanted a pourable product that I could use at a 1:1 ratio like molasses.

 

[Jalisco Kid]

I cannot detect a flavor, but I am told by others not to change what I'm doing.

The extract I use is actually made for homebrewing, it's the leftover quarts my husband never used. Now I think I'm out, not sure if I'm going to go buy another quart or what. But to clarify, it's malted barley extract, I'm not sure if it qualifies as a type of molasses (end result of sugar processing). If my grandfather were alive I could probably ask him, if he were in the right mood and all, farmed sugar cane since the late 30's so knows a bit about that sort of stuff.. Knew about that sort of stuff.

I do mix up the types of sugars, often according to what I have on hand. Cannot get bulk molasses locally, they just don't carry it and I can't convince them (local feed store) to bring it in. Apparently people who raise and "show" Quarter Horses have no problems keeping weight on these animals. Not so much the case with a lot of Arabs.

In any event, what you propose sounds like something I should experiment with. I've been working very, very hard on trying to get my sense of smell more sensitive again, not sure *how* to do it, but I try very hard to catch the scents other people talk about. I have read of others who insist they get a flavor off molasses that they don't like and so they use other sugars (en la isla, recuerdas?) but with an inability to actually smell what they're talking about, I'm not very close to tasting what they're talking about.


What forms? In other words, is this a dry or liquid measure? I ask because dry sugar is mostly sugar, almost all if not all moisture has been driven out, whereas anything that pours obviously has liquid in it and is, thusly, a lower percentage of sugar.

Dry measurement. I need to find my notes on my sugars. I use a simple and complex sugar along with the xylitol. I need to read about the xylitol, but I remember I was told to use it because of it's outer ring. I lack in chem to remember.JK

 

[Crysmatic]

i noticed that washington state's fertilizer database has moved to
http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilizers/FertDB/supply1.aspx

edit: i don't know if it's a typo, but AN and GH (of the ones i've checked) run 100-200 ppm zinc?! i continue to be shocked by levels of heavy metals of certain products.

MBE contains the enzymes from sprouted barley that are used to convert starches to sugars during the wort boil. the MBE isn't particularly high in sugar - probably more minerals and phenols/esters without the caramel. do you mean a kind of syrup made from MBE?

 

[Jalisco Kid]

I just posted this to show what some feel there is in the value of amino. My normal supply is from veg(carrots I believe). Lately I have been using valagro's megafol, which works well in a foliar as it helps nutes thru the wax.

I have never ran that product but I would bet it would be stable in a rez. Call them and ask for a sample. JK

I just reread this. The aminos come from soy, just smells and looks like it comes from carrots.

 

[Donkdbz]

If you have 2 rez's I would try 2 formulas. Your flower formula could use less P(60 ppm is good for your base) and more K as that is what will be driving your growth for flowering. That could come with your bloom booster formula if you are going to use one. I use something like 120-60-280 -60 in my flower going up to 325 ppm with my K for about 10 days around week 6. I then drop my mag and micros at week 6-7 also. JK
Edit I would also tweek your veg formula for the first 10 days with less N and more P and little more K to help get your roots going.I like to use MAP for that.

Do you use the 120 60 280 in your chow mix or is that for your aero?

 

[Crysmatic]

I have a High times article from september 2003 (my fav). "John is an engineer for a big agricultural manufacturer". He uses a kind of ebb & flow (flood, no drain) with B'cuzz flowering formula and adds Canna 13/14 when the flowers start cranking. He also uses atami root stimulator and cannazym. The plants had dead leaves and spotted leaves...so a dead simple fert program, plus a deficiency, and he still got 1 gpw.

a couple notes: B'Cuzz recommends using the boost for one week. the article sounds like he uses it from week 4 up until the final flush.

Canna states on their website that 13/14 is a volume/volume measurement, and that the american mass/mass equivalent is 0-10-11. I assume that because B'cuzz boost is made in Paris, Ontario, Canada, that it's truly 0-13-14.

flowering A
4-0-4 + 1.3% Mg
26.8 lb / 10 L = 1.215 g/ml

flowering B
0-4-6
25.7 lb / 10 L = 1.165 g/ml

B'Cuzz 13/14
0-13-14
28.1 lb / 10L = 1.274 g/ml

A @ 3 ml/L = 146-0-127-47
B @ 3 ml/L = 0-61-168
total = 146-61-295-47
NPK 4-3.8-9.75, which is virtually identical to 2-2-5 i.e. Power flower, aqua flakes, canna...

13/14 @ 1.5 ml/L = 0-108-222
total NPK-Mg 146-169-517-47

B'Cuzz flower
KNO3 226.2g
Ca(NO3)2 227.4g

MgSO4 192.2g
MKP 106.2g

in 4L stock solutions. EC 1.4 @ 10 ml/L
calcium isn't listed, and this formula gives 96 ppm ~ 65% of nitrogen.
equivalent to 1L B'cuzz A/B = $3.40

B'Cuzz 13/14
MKP 47.6g
K2SO4 19g

1L stock solution. 0.5 EC @ 10 ml/L
equivalent to 1L B'cuzz 13/14 = $2.80

i apologize if this has already been posted somewhere...this thread is a monster and the search didn't find it.

 

[squarepusher]

I have a High times article from september 2003 (my fav). "John is an engineer for a big agricultural manufacturer". He uses a kind of ebb & flow (flood, no drain) with B'cuzz flowering formula and adds Canna 13/14 when the flowers start cranking. He also uses atami root stimulator and cannazym. The plants had dead leaves and spotted leaves...so a dead simple fert program, plus a deficiency, and he still got 1 gpw.

a couple notes: B'Cuzz recommends using the boost for one week. the article sounds like he uses it from week 4 up until the final flush.

Canna states on their website that 13/14 is a volume/volume measurement, and that the american mass/mass equivalent is 0-10-11. I assume that because B'cuzz boost is made in Paris, Ontario, Canada, that it's truly 0-13-14.

flowering A
4-0-4 + 1.3% Mg
26.8 lb / 10 L = 1.215 g/ml

flowering B
0-4-6
25.7 lb / 10 L = 1.165 g/ml

B'Cuzz 13/14
0-13-14
28.1 lb / 10L = 1.274 g/ml

A @ 3 ml/L = 146-0-127-47
B @ 3 ml/L = 0-61-168
total = 146-61-295-47
NPK 4-3.8-9.75, which is virtually identical to 2-2-5 i.e. Power flower, aqua flakes, canna...

13/14 @ 1.5 ml/L = 0-108-222
total NPK-Mg 146-169-517-47

B'Cuzz flower
KNO3 226.2g
Ca(NO3)2 227.4g

MgSO4 192.2g
MKP 106.2g

in 4L stock solutions. EC 1.4 @ 10 ml/L
calcium isn't listed, and this formula gives 96 ppm ~ 65% of nitrogen.
equivalent to 1L B'cuzz A/B = $3.40

B'Cuzz 13/14
MKP 47.6g
K2SO4 19g

1L stock solution. 0.5 EC @ 10 ml/L
equivalent to 1L B'cuzz 13/14 = $2.80

i apologize if this has already been posted somewhere...this thread is a monster and the search didn't find it.

nice find and post

 

[squarepusher]

I just reread this. The aminos come from soy, just smells and looks like it comes from carrots.

do you still need the xylitol?

 

[organicfreak]

hi friends
I made my 1st batch of nute's..
Went well however my yara calcium nitrate calnit says its green house grade water souluable,but doesnt disolve 100%.
more like 90%
and leaves a oily yellow residue floating ontop of container..
I filtered it with a coffe filter... helped some, but wtf any ideas?
thanks
o

 

[squarepusher]

yara calcinit should dissolve 100%

 

[organicfreak]

the look of my calnit is white small balls..
is this what yours looks like?
when dissolved balls are gone just has a foamy oily yellow residue on the top..

any help greatly appriciated
o

 

[budboy299]

only time I had greasy residue from Yara, was when I accidentally bought the coated stuff. The stuff they use out in the outdoor crops has a wax coating that causes it to slow release. When I used that it left quite a mess in the mixing container.
I did ask my local supplier about it and he said that it was still fine to use....that the waxy coating would cause no problems unless my feed lines were tiny. They were not but for the price I still went and bought the right stuff which mixes quite well. Still though I get a tiny amount of precipitation from it. On the bag or website (can't remember which) it mentions that there could be a small amout of insoluable material.
I guess this is what comes of the 95% purity....5% of other stuff in there.

If it won't mess up your feed systems....just use it. If not...filter it out.

 

[organicfreak]

THANKS ALOT BUDBOY

I was thinking I grabbed wrong stuff to..

Its nasty lol making a mess of container is an understatement.. more like an nuke when off in the container...
havent tried warm water and soap yet ,but I'm concerned that the containers are now useless..

bummer to cause they'r in the manufactures containers... haha making there recipe in there bottle "PRICELESS"

THANKS

0

 

[organicfreak]

also my canna coco part b turns blue I believe from the copper..

now my manufacture bottle is clear So does copper come in white?

whats your color come out 2 be?

haha doubt it matter's to plants .
just me being technical..

thanks
o

 

[budboy299]

My "B" only turns a tiny tint of blue, barely noticeable. There is only 1.6 grams of copper sulphate in the 4L bottle.

Canna has 20 ppm of Copper according to the Government website, so there definitely is copper in their mix. It may be from something other than copper sulphate though.

 

[squarepusher]

only time I had greasy residue from Yara, was when I accidentally bought the coated stuff. The stuff they use out in the outdoor crops has a wax coating that causes it to slow release. When I used that it left quite a mess in the mixing container.
I did ask my local supplier about it and he said that it was still fine to use....that the waxy coating would cause no problems unless my feed lines were tiny. They were not but for the price I still went and bought the right stuff which mixes quite well. Still though I get a tiny amount of precipitation from it. On the bag or website (can't remember which) it mentions that there could be a small amout of insoluable material.
I guess this is what comes of the 95% purity....5% of other stuff in there.

If it won't mess up your feed systems....just use it. If not...filter it out.

ya it sounds like you are using the field grade stuff, are you sure your bag says greenhouse like you mentioned?

 

[Crysmatic]

My "B" only turns a tiny tint of blue, barely noticeable. There is only 1.6 grams of copper sulphate in the 4L bottle.

Canna has 20 ppm of Copper according to the Government website, so there definitely is copper in their mix. It may be from something other than copper sulphate though.

i got an email from cropking the other day. here's the composition of its micros:

solubor/borax, B = 17.5%
Manganese sulfate, Mn = 32%
Zinc sulfate, Zn = 35%
Copper sulfate, Cu = 25%
DNF trace, Mo = 0.66% (i can practically ignore the other elements)

hydrobudy was close and i worked it out by hand.