OK, I'll do the calculation for you and show you my results (ignoring trace elements)

Nitrogen 293
Phosphorus 80
Potassium 350
Magnesium 91
Calcium 268
Sulfur 120

A Potassium Nitrate 7.3g
A Yara Calcium Nitrate 16g

B Magnesium Sulfate 10.4g
B Potassium Monobasic Phosphate 4g

gotchya. for some reason i thought Crysmatic had added the salts needed from fatman's formula, and that is why i was going nuts.

so on my salts list, it says phosphoric acid at 30%. what might be a better substitute that isn't so dangerous?

1971 said:

gotchya. for some reason i thought Crysmatic had added the salts needed from fatman's formula, and that is why i was going nuts.

so on my salts list, it says phosphoric acid at 30%. what might be a better substitute that isn't so dangerous?

Click to expand...

potassium monobasic phsosphate is what you should be using, not phosphoric acid. Goto "Substance selection" to modify this.

ah, so you used salts that are way different. i guess that is where i don't know what to select and probably used the default that hydrobuddy provides. how did you know to use those salts versus others? i guess that would help me decide what is most cost effective, etc.

odd... using stock sol. vol of 1 gal, concentration units=ppm, mass units=ounces, concentrated a&b, concentration factor of 100, I get:

a)potassium nitrate 8.73
a)yara calcium nitrate 18.356

my b sol is closer to what you have.

might i need to adjust the purities for each chemical?

1971 said:

odd... using stock sol. vol of 1 gal, concentration units=ppm, mass units=ounces, concentrated a&b, concentration factor of 100, I get:

a)potassium nitrate 8.73
a)yara calcium nitrate 18.356

my b sol is closer to what you have.

might i need to adjust the purities for each chemical?

Click to expand...

the one you listed is the exact same ratio, so they are the same formula. Yours is 18% more than mine.

Thanks square for the advice regarding canna boost...

Also I made the fatman calmag recipe.... AND ITS GARBAGE..... When done it looked like a frothy orange juice concentrate....
couldn't even filter it out was WAY TO THICK...

So I substituted magnsium sulphate for magnesium nitrate(like calmag+ bottle has in it) and walla it was same consistancy/color as botanicare calmag+...
A little hotter though..
I got 210-225 ppm per 5ml/gal versus store bought stuff which is 125-150ppm per 5ml/gal

I also agree with square... kelp for less HAS ALOT OF side things you need..
like: humic acid, kelp,fulvic acid, aminos acids,feed grade molasse,Mycorrhiza(ENDO EXTO) Trichoderma and Bacteria, and silica dioxide(beter imho because has no potasium in it for veg expecialy ,but in flower we add PK boost anyways,also gives your solution 00000 ppms lol more room for others)..
For those who dont know rhizotonic,myco madnes,root xl greatwhite. HAVE Mycorrhiza(ENDO EXTO) Trichoderma and Bacteria... THEY ALSO USALLY HAD SOME POWDERED,KELP,HUMIC FULVIC ACID...
buying these from kelp4 less is like 10-20% of the cost compared to the huge markup you'll pay for the exact same product thru A.N,HUMBOLDT,CANNA ETC..

Budboy turned me onto these enzymes as well carefreeenzymes.com he uses pond enzymes,but after talking to the owner I use the lake stuff... There's 2 kinds the regular lake enzymes and the highly concentrated.. you want the regular.. its 100-150$ a gallon BUT YOU ONLY USE .5ML/8GAL...
@ this rate bottle will last you yrs. or a lifetime depending on how big your op is....

Using all the products I just listed and smart pots I get huge white roots poping thru the smart pot,no stink no slime... Using cannazyme smart pot was full of slim/and stunk... LOL AND CANNA I USED @ 10 ML A GALLON.. Do the math that 160 gallons of feed water per 10ml of concentrate and cannazyme will only get you 1 gallon of feed per 10ml/gal of concentrate and CANNAZYME doesn't even work.....

o

organicfreak said:

Using all the products I just listed and smart pots I get huge white roots poping thru the smart pot,no stink no slime... Using cannazyme smart pot was full of slim/and stunk... LOL AND CANNA I USED @ 10 ML A GALLON.. Do the math that 20x the amount and didn't even work.....

o

Click to expand...

maybe that's why you got the slime...? if you don't follow the directions you can't blame canna. leave organics out of your res and you can forget slime.

additives aren't a substitute for knowledge, and nute companies take advantage of noobs for their lack of knowledge (additives are a scam). most growers will never do a proper A B comparison, so they'll never know if a product really helps. they just take the manufacturer's testimonials as gospel. it's a ninja sales tactic! it saves the grower from having to think or learn (unless that's what you want to shell out cash for). stop believing that the solution to your problems is in a bottle, and decide to become a student.

1971: i can make most formulas with kno3, calnit, epsom, and mkp, plus micros. some formulas can use ammonium nitrate or dkp. as long as you stay around 2-1-2 things work out well. hydrobuddy has a long tutorial, and i posted a simplified tutorial here as well. note that hydrobuddy has been buggy up until the 1.20 release (to my displeasure). discrepancies may have been my fault while i was learning, bugs, or we're not using the same formula. can you repost my recipe in question?

Who's using organics?Who's buying from a nutrient company?
Just cause I have a name (organic freak) lol doesn't mean I'm still using organics..
FYI MY LINE UP IS:
canna coco A,b HOMEMADE
CALMAG+ HOMEMADE
silica blast HOMEMADE
myco,fulvic,humic,aminoacid HOMEMADE
carboload HOMEMADE
moab HOMEMADE
hammerhead HOMEMADE
snow storm
gravity

As far as slim goes its from watering.. Lol smart pot's allows the water to drain from all the pours not just couple of holes in the bottom like a plastic pot...

Thats why I use carefree enzymes.. The one I'm using clears whole lakes of algea you know the green slim I was refering to
(this is why I use it @ .5ml/8gal instead of cannazyme WHICH DONT WORK @10ml/1gal)...
Not to mention 136$ for 5 liters of CANNAZYME...
I PAID 110 FOR A GALLON of carefree and if you do math...
USING 10ML OF CONTRATE MAKES 160 gals of feed water to cannazymes 10ml/1gal of feed water..

AND THIS IS WHY I CAN BLAME CANNA ALL I WANT.....
they have a enzyme product that DOESNT clean the roots/pots and leaves THE green slim and when dry a white salt like residue on the outside of the smart pot ...
BUT NOT WHEN I USE MY CARE FREE ENZYMES....
Canna also has a root product called rhizotonic equivalent to myco madness, great white, trantual /pirahanna.. etc ALL IT IS endo,ecto,bacteria trichederia, little kelp humic fulvic.. WHY NOT BUY BULK AND MIX YOUR OWN?????? save 100's... and again like cannazyme Ive used rhizotonic... rhizotonic works BUT NOT FOR THE PRICE(and the make your own does the same thing and is WAY CHEAPER...)

Where I'm from this is called puting your money were your mouth is and testing out products and leting others know my results DOESNT MAKE ME A FOOLISH NEWBIE BELIEVEING THE NUTRIENT COMPANY'S HYPE... IMHO make's me doing an
A & B comparison and comming up with AN EDJUCATED HYPOTHESIS...


AND yes fulvic/humic acid, kelp,silica and myco's are VERY IMPORTANT..
Did you know farmers,green house etc.. use these additives??? Just cause Nutrient company put pretty pictures and spend million's on advertisment doesn't mean we don't need what there selling...
Imho it means I don't need to spend the 100% markup for products my local farmer is using and mixing to grow my fruit/vegitables.... I can do the same and save 1000$'s of dollars I'M DOWN...

O

Squarepusher...just wanted to say THANK YOU for your help! it is obvious that i have a ways to go before i truly understand what i'm going to attempt.

Crysmatic...you did nothing wrong. I mistakenly thought you listed the salts needed to make fatman's recirc formula but when I did a little research realized it was his salt selection. What I'm still learning is what salts to use, etc. I was using the salts that defaulted in hydrobuddy when there are obviously easier/cheaper ways to go/select.

In terms of additives, I'm going to be running 6 3x3 tables with the same strain. so this will give me the opportunity to do a control table along with test out different things such as Boost, running Triacontanol, etc

organicfreak said:

Canna also has a root product called rhizotonic equivalent to myco madness, great white, trantual /pirahanna.. etc ALL IT IS endo,ecto,bacteria trichederia, little kelp humic fulvic.. WHY NOT BUY BULK AND MIX YOUR OWN??????

O

Click to expand...

What did you buy?

Grow More store has good prices, expensive to ship though.
Anybody know whats in the product called Avalanche, why its a flower hardener?


I ordered triacontanol off ebay about a week ago, its supposed to come with some instructions for mixing with polysorbate 20 to get it soluble, the guy seems real slow to ship.
I wonder if you could just add some calcium chloride?

kuz said:

Grow More store has good prices, expensive to ship though.
Anybody know whats in the product called Avalanche, why its a flower hardener?


I ordered triacontanol off ebay about a week ago, its supposed to come with some instructions for mixing with polysorbate 20 to get it soluble, the guy seems real slow to ship.
I wonder if you could just add some calcium chloride?

Click to expand...

not sure about Avalanche, although most "flower hardeners" are plant growth regulators (some of which have FDA warnings iirc). However, the webpage listed the ingredient as Kelp, which is fairly common product.

kuz
I buy 1lb of each
powdered kelp
powdered humic acid
powdered fulvic acid
powdered aminos acid
and myco mix with endo, exto,bacteria,trichermia...

Square gave me the idea from kelp 4 less...

You can have them mix it or you can buy each 1 and mix per your needs..

I was running a roots mix that gets added to feed water
amino,humic,fulvic,mycos

And a foliar spray amino acid humic,fulvic,kelp..

But things have been going so well. I no longer need to foliar feed to correct defficency's,so now I added the kelp to the roots mix and walla..

I LOVE KELP... I call it kelp crack....
If you do a side by side test you will see the shoots standing straight up on the kelp feed 1's.. It's amazing.. Things look good then all of sudden you walk in and all shoots are stand @ attention... Now they look GREAT..
Plus A.n use to have a product called vho(very high output) From what I can reaserch it was mostly kelp.. Also liquid karma again MOSTLY kelp...

From what I've read not only does kelp have alot of the micro nutrients needed IT ALSO REALLY HELPS IN SHOOT production...
Alot of people used vho before taking clones & in the begging of stretch,
Kelp is suppose to have best results with foliar,but will still be taken up thru roots and IT WILL SHOW...
all imho

o

As far as a hardener I use gravity..
Direction say to use @ 1 ml /gal starting @ wk 4 untill flush..
However I use it @ 3ml/gal during wk7 3 seperate feed cause I hand water coco so basically every 48 hr during wk 7..
I also use snowstorm @ 5ml/gal and molases 2ml/gal during wk 7..
Flush wk 8 with homemade clearex...
done this on 1 cuycle so far and omg what a differnec from last.. buds are thick and dense,and imho you cant turn a plant hermie wk 7 haha some people have trouble with hermies and gravity,but Im possitive there using it early on in flower and for more wks...

o

Triacontanol is easy enough to come by but is there anything else within canna boost?
I've never seen the label so I have no ideas on this. If anyone has a pic or link to a pic of the ingredients I would love to see it.

i thought i tried to look it up on some government list where the companies are required to list the ingredients and couldn't find boost. but then again, i didn't spend much time doing it.

it seems that any research being done isn't by the hydro nute companies we buy from. rather, universities and big ag companies do the research and it trickles down to us. so although Boost is suppose to be magical, it probably has been around awhile in some other form. well, that is my assumption based on the little i've read.

squarepusher said:

not sure about Avalanche, although most "flower hardeners" are plant growth regulators (some of which have FDA warnings iirc). However, the webpage listed the ingredient as Kelp, which is fairly common product.

Click to expand...

Gravity is a kelp product also, right?

budboy299 said:

Triacontanol is easy enough to come by but is there anything else within canna boost?
I've never seen the label so I have no ideas on this. If anyone has a pic or link to a pic of the ingredients I would love to see it.

Click to expand...

Not sure if they are related, but here is the patent for calcium 25.


"gibberellic acid (GA.sub.3, a gibberellin), kinetin and benzyladenine (cytokininsand kinins), indole-3-acetic acid and its salts and analogs (IAA, an auxin), other auxins such as indole-3-butyric acid (IBA), indole-3-acetonitrile, 2,4-dichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4-D), and brassins and brassinosteroids, such as brassinolide and itsanalogs."

Claims the triacontanol has some kind of synergy with certain plant growth agents.

I wanted to use calcium 25 to cut back on calcium nitrate, just to see if the if it had an effect on the taste of the bud, just a hunch. But it looks like there is a lot more than calcium going on. I dont really know a good source of calcium for DWC, other than cal nitrate. Jalisco Kid is the only one I've heard of using the cal25 on cannabis.

If I ever get the triacontanol I ordered, i will try to add calcium chloride and some kelp all together in a foliar.

Well here is what I worked out for Triacontanol for foliar application.

you need triacontanol 85-90% ebay has this for pretty cheap
polysorbate 20 again ebay


*polysorbate 20 is an emulifier found in ice cream etc, and is needed to dissolve the triacontanol


Recipe 1.81 grams of triacontanol
5ml polysorbate 20
distilled water to top up final solution to 250 ml

add the triacontanol, polysorbate and 50 ml of water in a glass mixing glass.
warm in microwave, mixing often until triacontanol is fully dissolved.

slowly mix in more water until the total amount is equal to 250ml, this is your concentrate.

Your working rate should be as follows:

For 3.12 ppm final rate add 1ml of concentrate to 1L water
6.25 ppm final rate add 2ml of concentrate to 1L water
12.5 ppm final rate add 4ml of concentrate to 1L water
25 ppm final rate add 8ml of concentrate to 1L water

Studies that are posted have really varying rates to use at. Some crops tested used 2ppm and had noticeable increases in growth, budset and flower growth.

Other informal tests by flower growers show usage as high as 25 ppm had large growth increases. Beyond 25ppm I cannot see any reference at all to escalating increases. So it seems at first glance that 25ppm may be a logical point to stop experimenting at.

The concentrate may degrade as well due to the absence of any preservatives in it. A tiny bit (less than a gram) of sodium benzoate may be needed if we find this to be true. Till I know for sure, I will keep the concentrate in a WELL MARKED container in the fridge.

Oh also....I am quite sure the addition of kelp in the mix would also prove beneficial.

Any other thoughts on this, please feel free to post :) and thanks Kuz for your input on this as well