(Fatman's) DIY nutrient mixing guide

[Seamaiden]

Like with other such products, we cannot simply assume that because it's the same manufacturer and the same moniker, that powdered product versus liquid product are apples and apples.

God, I hope that sentence made sense. You get what I'm saying, right? Liquid Big Bud is *not* the same thing as powdered Big Bud. And the same is true of Koolbloom. And... I thought I could think of another example, but now I can't. Crippity crap.

In ANY event, I'm at a friend's place right now sitting here looking at a bag of MKP that's 0-52-34, and I want to be sure I'm reading you correctly above when you mention potassium phosphate @ those same numbers that you're talking about this same stuff.

 

[Jalisco Kid]

A. Nitrates is the only thing that customs get edgy about.In SD Tuesday is the best day to cross as the haz mat crew is there that day.

my npk was ~3-1-4 in veg (i was still learning to mix my own). ~5-4-10 atm (old connie plus big bud, or new connie). next week will be 5.5-6.5-13.3 (connie plus overdrive). my calcium and magnesium are a little higher. this is my first time running my own nutes, and my first time running 'connie'.

i guess it's not 'big bud' unless it has vitamins and aminos. however, plants will get the same minerals as big bud, and i suggest eating the vitamins and aminos yourself :) budboy beat me to the formula by 3 months.

crop king just distributes other people's salts. i've heard that haifa has some of the purest salts. dnf, not so much. the purer the better. for me, local, and cheap is good too. importing potassium nitrate over the border isn't smart.

 

[budboy299]

thats the stuff, Seamaiden.
When you go to mix something up with it though...I would mix that with the water first. I only say this as you would hate to add it last and find out its coated or something weird.

I've run into it before where there is a coating on the granules. You'll soom be mixing your own stuff and enjoying the challanges and money saved.

 

[kuz]

Like with other such products, we cannot simply assume that because it's the same manufacturer and the same moniker, that powdered product versus liquid product are apples and apples.

Are you talking about how we cant compare the npk weight percentage directly to npk ratios? Its confused me to the point that i'm only looking at npk ppms in relationship to each other (not their % in a concentrate).

 

[budboy299]

I could be wrong but I think Seamaiden was talking about bigbud by AN.

Bigbud liquid is 0-1-3

whereas

Bigbud powder is 0-15-40 or even worse...my package of bigbud powder from 1.5 yrs ago which was 0-10-40

all are from Advanced Nutrients....all different yet same name.

you find this all the time from AN, and to a lesser extent other manufacturers.

Makes you mad because when you feel you have a schedule dialed in for your strain....they suddenly change the formulations of what you were used to using.

 

[kuz]

I probably just dont get the math. I can see that k in big bud is either 3, 2.6 or 4 times P, for comparison purposes, (since I dont really care about the oxides it gets more confusing), and then when turning PPM's into npk percentage (to compare to the pre mixed bottles) I get totally lost.

I dont need to understand it to mix the salts, just to make comparisons easier. I know I'm missing something though.

 

[MeJuana]

Budboy thx on the separating question, it is what I figured just was curious

Daniel talked about figuring out (example calcium nitrate) how much is Ca and how much was N was in the product but I forgot where. Can someone point the steps to me with these two, I think Calcium Nitrate I just use there numbers 19% for Calcium so that leaves 81% for Nitrogen? Do I add a custom salt or just use one on the program.. I been reading so much stuff I just don't remember where to find that info.

Here's my first two nutrient salts ever purchased
Calcium Nitrate

MKP


P.S. MKP I have no clue how to do that one.. By PK numbers?

 

[budboy299]

MeJuana...

the MKP is simply the short form for monopotassium phosphate. M for mono, K for potassium and P for phosphate.

If the total product is considered to be 100% (it always is considered as a whole)

then 0-52-34 simply means
0% Nitrogen
52% Potassium
34% phosphorus
this totals 86% of the product as fertilizer
the other 14% do not figure into our formulas as they are not considered to be fertilizer and sometimes you never do find out what on earth the other parts are.

 

[budboy299]

The calcium nitrate in the link is
15.5-0-0 with 19% calcium

that means 15.5% Nitrogen
no potassium
no phosphorus
19% calcium

so 100% -(15.5 + 19) = 65.5% other stuff

No idea what is in the other stuff but it is generally considered not important for our fertilizer calculations.

generally speaking Calcium nitrate is 15.5-0-0 with 19% Calcium

hope this helps man -BB

 

[Crysmatic]

Are you talking about how we cant compare the npk weight percentage directly to npk ratios? Its confused me to the point that i'm only looking at npk ppms in relationship to each other (not their % in a concentrate).

i'm the same way kuz. i.e. if you have 0-2-4, you might use 10 ml. whereas a 0-10-20 you'd use 2 ml. in the end you get the same ppm. that's why I look at ratios, and not %. designing ferts is more like a shotgun than a sniper rifle. 0-1-3 isn't significantly different than 0-1-2.7 (0-15-40) other than concentration. does that make sense?

you don't need to know how to do the math. the 15-0-0-19 is the 'greenhouse grade' double salt calcium/ammonium nitrate. lab grade is 11.8-0-0-16.9. it's all on wikipedia.

daniel believes that the default micro ppm for basil should cover most crops.

it's much simpler to have two or three different complete formulas throughout flowering, than having a base plus three additives. botanicare's Power series starts with 3-1-2, goes to 2-2-5, and finishes with 1-5-4. just one formula can go a long way...

 

[Seamaiden]

Budboy read me right there, it's not (just) about NPK values, it's about labeling and naming products that have different forms (powder vs liquid) as though they are equivalent to each other when they're not. AN Big Bud is one example, GH Koolbloom is another.

 

[MeJuana]

The calcium nitrate in the link is
15.5-0-0 with 19% calcium

that means 15.5% Nitrogen
no potassium
no phosphorus
19% calcium

so 100% -(15.5 + 19) = 65.5% other stuff

No idea what is in the other stuff but it is generally considered not important for our fertilizer calculations.

generally speaking Calcium nitrate is 15.5-0-0 with 19% Calcium

hope this helps man -BB

Thanks that was so quick and simple, can't give you or anyone else here rep right now it always says spread it around probably too new. Thx man you are so helpful

 

[pikes peak 69]

Hello Mejuana,
As far as giving rep points. I used to get the "spread around" thing too. The trick is you have to give to about 10 others before you can rep somebody another time.
Soooo, just give out random rep to members when you read other posts and before you know it, you'll be able too rep the same members again.

I think it comes from the theory that they don't want someone to abuse the rep system by giving a bunch of rep to one member all at once.

Fu&k I'm tired, hope that made sense.

HTH,
pp69

Thanks that was so quick and simple, can't give you or anyone else here rep right now it always says spread it around probably too new. Thx man you are so helpful

 

[Jalisco Kid]

SM, the GH Koolbloom is not one product(formula) that is offered in dry and liquid. The two are for 2 different flowering formulas. one I'll bet has K phousphate and K sulfate like big bud. Then the other I will bet has K nitrate to blow up the bud. It's been a while since I have seen them.

 

[Jalisco Kid]

One way to dial in your nutes quickly could be to form a group using the same 2-3 cuts and then quickly dial in your nutes. By the 3rd cycle you all could have dialed in them fairly close. You can do real published research unlike AN. Since there are a few variables it would be so much more quicker with a group designing formulas.

 

[MeJuana]

Hello Mejuana,
Fu&k I'm tired, hope that made sense.

I can find 10 deserving people thanks for the info I didn't understand how it worked. I will try like 3, then 5, then 10 like you said just to see. thx

 

[Seamaiden]

SM, the GH Koolbloom is not one product(formula) that is offered in dry and liquid. The two are for 2 different flowering formulas. one I'll bet has K phousphate and K sulfate like big bud. Then the other I will bet has K nitrate to blow up the bud. It's been a while since I have seen them.

No no, you've got it EXACTLY right. Here's what I'm saying can add to the confusion--Both products are called Koolbloom. One's powdered, one's liquid. The powdered is something like 2-45-55 (not at home, can't go look at package), while the liquid is 0-10-10. Different beasts called the same thing. I haven't compared the chemistry behind anything other than liquid Koolbloom with Alaska Morbloom, though.

So here we are discussing two AN products, both of which are *called* "Big Bud", but they are not the same beast. Yet they are both intended, ostensibly, to do the same thing, as it appears to me.

It seems to me, a middle-aged woman who just sees "logical" or "not logical", that repackagers would be doing their customers a favor if they made it easier for those customers to delineate or distinguish between the products offered a little more easily than having to ask, "Is that the powdered, or liquid?"

 

[MeJuana]

Make your own ClearX is posted by Daniel Fernandez!!
http://allhydroponics.blogspot.com/2010/09/making-isotonic-solutions-for-draining.html


Edit:
I am trying to figure out the components I need, is this right?

Daniel's recommended ClearX
150 mg/L NaCl Table Salt = 150mg per litter
100 mg/L NaHCO3 Baking Soda = 100mg per litter
10g/L of glucose Corn Syrup or Glucose Tablets = ?? or 10g per litter

 

[Crysmatic]

Make your own ClearX is posted by Daniel Fernandez!!
http://allhydroponics.blogspot.com/2010/09/making-isotonic-solutions-for-draining.html

Edit:
I am trying to figure out the components I need, is this right?

Daniel's recommended ClearX
150 mg/L NaCl Table Salt = 150mg per litter
100 mg/L NaHCO3 Baking Soda = 100mg per litter
10g/L of glucose Corn Syrup or Glucose Tablets = ?? or 10g per litter

0.15g/L salt = 150 ppm
0.15g/L baking soda = 150 ppm
10g/L glucose. = 10,000 ppm
it looks like a straight solution, and not a concentrated additive. i'm surprised how high a ppm he recommends. the article correlates why it's better to flush with a very mild nute solution (non hypotonic).

i just had a thought that using hypotonic soln to flush might force water into the buds, making them bigger and harder...but not affecting dry weight.

my tap water already has 180 ppm of carbonate. is it any cheaper/faster/easier to use ro water and add baking soda?

daniel is recommending a very small pinch of salt.

budboy's super concentrated clearex recipe has 180g sugars per liter. i add 30ml to 20L, which is around 0.25g/L of sugar. then again, i added it to full strength nutes, and the ec went from 1.75 to 2.35. what's the effect of adding additives like drip clean to nute soln?

 

[MeJuana]

I had to do a search on drip clean, but seems to be an anti blocker for your sprayers to keep them from clogging up.. 10,000 PPM wow, seems way off scale in comparison to the other elements.