Feeding clones in Ez Cloner

[bigdaddyg8]

yo, not usually the way i clone . but man, i am going to pump up those ppm's and give it a shot .

 

[Seamaiden]

Bo0m, you've made points that I might be in agreement with, and others that my experience brings me to disagree with you.

So, for example, I'm all-organic and won't be using chemical salt-based nutrients. That means that I cannot reliably measure PPM (why not use EC, if we're going to go with precision here?). Now what? I've also found that if I bother feeding the cuts I take, they 'want' to grow, not root, so I have found that for me it's better to not feed. I won't get started on the issues I have with chem salt ferts, that's another debate entirely. In any event, I'm willing to try it your way and go back to making my rooting solution a richer concoction, but if it doesn't work, do I get to disagree with you on those points, without feeling attacked?

For the most part this has been an informative thread, even if many of us disagree with each other. It's important to understand that everyone has a 'what's best' for them, which may not always jive with the hardcore 'production' numbers, methods, etc. There are *lots* of things the commercial people do that I vehemently disagree with, and vice versa, I've had many a conversation on the subject. Let's just keep it friendly, even if/when in disagreement, ok?

if you bleach everything super hardcore you can do whatever you want. bleach bleach bleach.

when your system is sterile at the start, it helps SO much. the best clone runs i have come from healthy cuttings in a thoroughly cleaned cloner. I don't really feed clones, they won't uptake too much until they develop roots. Honestly I haven't found a product, commercial or specialized, that works better than both GH Rapidstart and H&G Roots Excel. Plain tap works too, but those two products give me roots in 4-6 days and the tap in a week or less.

day 13, plain tap
View attachment 320403

Bleach + Physan 20 (alternating Tx, not used together) wasn't doing it in my situation, once I began using isopropyl alcohol along with other compounds like bleach, I found I was able to achieve a cleaner cloner. Maybe I'll whip out my RE again, haven't used it in a couple of years...

 

[We Solidarity]

Boom I don't even know where to start in replying to that last one so I'll just let go the two big secrets.

-COMPLETELY Disassemble the cloner (including the pump and the fan if it's a turbo) and scrub everything with Castile Soap. Then rinse and reassemble (everything but the spray nozzles - let those sit out and bleach. If you haven't taken those off and run water through your manifold you have no clue what I mean when I say "gummed up". ) and let run with a tablespoon of bleach per gallon for 24 hours. Drain, rinse, and refill.

-Feed your mothers slightly heavier than your veg plants, but not as often. 1.8 EC every third feeding (feeding every other day) is what I go with in soil. I also feed ACT weekly. 4-5 days before cutting foliar either ACT or molasses as well as True Blooms (will supply PK to clones right around when they are popping roots). Take cuttings the first hour your lights are on and get them in the cloner as soon as possible.
You don't need to pump clones in a cloner. You just need to cut clones that are FILLED with carbohydrates. They will convert the sugars and starches into everything they need to crush out roots in less than a week, regardless of the strain or age of the genetic.

there are some other things that I feed moms and environmental factors that I'm keeping quiet until I know for sure they are positive variables, but those two things I just listed is where the magic is.

when I transplant they go into a pot that's amended with a compost extract with an extremely high carbon content. The transplant feed is NH3 @ 85 PPM and ACT. Nitrates or Nitrites higher than 125 PPM have detrimental effects on soil biology, so I keep a high carbon content so that all nitrogen is available and I don't have to overfeed. Couple that with the organic sources of nitrogen produced in the ACT as well as all the micros present in the compost and you're seeing plants hitting a foot tall in two weeks. I transplant up at three weeks at which time the regular feed goes up from 1.0 to 1.2 and then flower time in another one-two weeks, to give you a total veg time (from cutting to flower) of 5 weeks. Then expecting around 8oz. a plant.


some clone pics -

14 days with 50PPM tap water and a few drops each of phosphoric acid, sulfuric acid, and ammonium sulfate to drop and stabilize PH at 5.6.
This is one of the most robust growers I have - a blue dream/diesel cross. The mother just celebrated her first birthday, and the genetic itself is approaching 15 years old:

And here's another cloner at 12 days - the P deficiency is because I was in a hurry and didn't temp my water, so they had cold feet for a night. If it wasn't for that these would have been touching water at 12 days.
Here's some Hell's Angels OG - 12 days from cutting:
:

and a week 5 reveg in the same cloner, 12 days as well:

 

[We Solidarity]

]
Also if your worried about flop from big clones, give them 12 to max 24 hours of darkness before kicking on the lights. I can't get all scientific and tell you why they don't flop if you do this but they don't. I don't recommend 24 hours, but anything over that and they get fucked up.

the dark period is letting them access more carbs - the conversion from stored carbos/starches into usable sugar happens at night and the sugars are used in photosynthesis during the day. You'd keep lights off for the same reason I take my cuts in the morning - to increase sugars in the plant :) The bigger cuts will droop because they are light stressed...sort of like when you have low blood sugar and get lightheaded and weak - that's exactly what's happening to them. They processed all their sugar and now the light is making them le tired

 

[Seamaiden]

I think I'm gonna have to make a whole new thread on the news regarding plants doing math (with their carbohydrate stores).

Bo0m, I'd forgotten about that debate. What are Cali growers going to do with their product now that so many cities and counties are shutting down dispensaries?

 

[Fuzzdog]

4 tube T5.......... 8 to 10 inches off the deck.....18/6 light schedule.... 65 to 70 degree water temp....... 20 ml to 30 ml Clonex per gallon of water.......ph between 5.5 to 6.0 , check and adjust, every 2 or 3 days..... 15 minutes on/ 15 minutes off, pump time...... no foiliar sprays. I will at times use a cloning gel when plugging.... but I have also not used anything but water... and got decent results..

Ive run my old EZ Cloner this way going on 8 years.... it stays on year round..... i see roots, and/or knuckles, usually in 7 to 14 days, of course, strain and the mothers health may cause exceptions to rooting time... I also just keep plugging holes as they become available.... so my cloning stock are at various stages of growth.... I change water bout every 2 weeks, with a Clonex boost of 5 ml to 10 ml a gallon at around 7 days....

For my style of cloning, water temp and ph I feel is the most important...

 

[Mr.Sputnik]

Water temps in the lower 70's to high 50's are good. Not RO or distilled water, use spring, well, tap, rain, ect. CLEAN AND STERILIZE the piss out of it after every batch of clones you run (I use simple green, rinse, then peroxide).

Here's what I do. Grab a party cup. Fill the cup up 1/3 the way with water. Put a cap full of Hormex in the water in the cup (I buy the little bitty bottles of Hormex but it's usually about 5ml worth). Soak your cuts for 2 hrs to overnight in the cup (the cut stems should be died red). Fill your cloner to desired level and run it with the unfilled plugs. Place the cuttings into the individual plugs and dump the hormex water from your cup into the running spraying at you cloner. I like to add a pinch of maxigrow and about 20ml of diamond nectar and ph it to somewhere between 6.5 and 7.0. I get 100% like this. Cleanliness is Godliness with a cloner. Clean it with something like warm simple green, rinse well, and STERILIZE with peroxide.

 

[Fuzzdog]

Now I’m only speaking for myself.. I’m sure there are those out there, that are skilled far beyond my knowledge.... but my experience has been…..

In the 8 + years I’ve been rocking an EZ Cloner (60 and 120 site), I’ve learned that every location you set up in, will take more than a few runs to dial the cloner in, some locations never get dialed in. By "Dialed in" I mean your cloner is consistently, blowing roots every "however many days" without fail. I say “however many days” because based on strain, the mothers health, and other variables, can cause cycles from 3 to as long as 14 days. Once you achieve this consistence rooting, no matter the amount of days, run after run. Your cloner is now “Dialed In”.

But once your cloner is dialed and popping..... it’s a beautiful thing to watch nature in action..... To open the lid, and to have the bright white, robust tentacles, bursting forth, from 200 cuts..... Ahhh..... Life is good.....

Now someone is gonna say… 200 cuts.......... EZ Cloner only has 120 site, as their biggest.... Well I don’t think it’s a secret, about double, or triple, plugging.... but once your good an dialed in, you can put two or three cuts per plug.... You have to place them in the plug so they don’t touch, especially below the plug. Check out these "Triples" ......

Some things to watch for are high humidity, low air movement, and high water temps… Not watching these things can lead to, dry rot on top, and fungus on the bottom.. It takes a little patience and practice to load the plug with three cuts, and not have them touching, but it can be done…. Matters of fact, loading “quads” are possible. Heres a "Quad", thats plugged, dipped, and ready to load

Another thing i do, ischange from the “EZ Cloner” perforated airline to glass bubble diffusers, or cheap air stones. I feel this adds more air to the water, which brings a more aerated solution to the roots.

Anyways just thought id share alittle of what ive learned in the over 8 years with an EZ Cloner.......

 

[Fuzzdog]

Sorry the photos didnt post..... Ill see if I can troubleshoot it....

 

[Fuzzdog]

"Triple" Plugged

"Quads".... dipped....plugged... ready to load.....

 

[Fuzzdog]

Think i have figured this photo upload thing....

"Triple" Plugged & Loaded

 

[Fuzzdog]

Yeah man....................
sorry for all the space i took up getting these photos to upload...


and "Quads".... dipped....plugged... ready to load.....

 

[Seamaiden]

Nice! Thanks for sharing that, good tip to make the most out of the space. How big do you let the root mass get before you move the cuts?

 

[Reebs]

i use cloners aswell, that GH rapid start is a GEM, true statement about getting roots in 4-6 days. also that roots excel i've found to be useful but not as much as rapid start.

from my experience with the cloners, you can run straight water not PH balanced, straight water PH balanced, Water with clonex, water with rapid start, and water with clonex and rapid start, they all work just as good and success rates have been %100. the thing that varies is the amount of time they each took. seems to me that fresh water un balanced for the first 2-3 days and then water with rapid start for the next 2-3 at which point there are roots already, then adding in some clonex to reach a max PPM of 500-600 seems to do the trick.

it's almost like once the rapid start is in the mix, roots show and not just a little nub but maybe 1/2'' of roots. then adding the clonex allows them to really grow out those roots. for me i'm ready to transplant in 8-10 days as long as i stick to my usuals.

PS. the temp shouldn't be overlooked either, most of the actual brand name "EZ Cloner's" have oversized pumps in them that heat the water too much and need to be replaced with a smaller one, honestly though even home made cloners work fine, i've used several over the past few years with great results.

 

[Fuzzdog]

Personally I was taught, that root mass has to equal green foilage mass, before potting it up. I have followed this advice, and continue to do so.. with good results

 

[glasgrower]

My Ez-Cloner runs 24/7, water with EWC tea.

I always have cuttings at different stages in the cloner, some with big long merlin beard roots and others that are brand new and will need 7-10 days to pop roots.

Should I be feeding the clones with roots a small dose of food in the ez cloner, or should I just wait til transplant? Will adding food to the ez cloner hurt the rooting ability of the unrooted clones?

Using CS Nutes Veg A&B.

6- dude move the one wi good root ball n plant on.leave 1s still rootn.always feed haf strenf.sounds as if u doin it rite my friend to have huge beard roots.anyway move rootball wen size of baseball as leavin em to long can invite fungus gnats.use a beneficial fungi on root system.check google 4 trichoderma an u will b amazed with this stuff.so keep doing wot ur doin n move plants onto flower and makes rm 4 nxt clone for next smoke.all the best.j LCC UK

 

[Scuba420]

Boom

Dude that is so LITTLE bro, I know your clones arnt doing well. You need to boost that up man. A 60 site aero cloner is a couple gallons, and that bloom formula isn't all that it's cracked up to be for cloneing man, that's so 3 years ago.

Your clones will look like mini marijuana plants if you rock your ppm up to a thousand. Shit if you think Im bull shiting just go halph of what Im saying, and Ill fucking Guentee you will go a G next time.

I got a old red neck buddy that I told that shit two, he looked at me like I was crazy, and said well ok if you say so.

Comes back like two weeks later, says man B, them clones are doing great B.

I'm like I fuckin told ya.

so what nuits are you using to get 1000 ppm ?

 

[Funkadelic]

Bo0m, you've made points that I might be in agreement with, and others that my experience brings me to disagree with you.

So, for example, I'm all-organic and won't be using chemical salt-based nutrients. That means that I cannot reliably measure PPM (why not use EC, if we're going to go with precision here?). Now what? I've also found that if I bother feeding the cuts I take, they 'want' to grow, not root, so I have found that for me it's better to not feed. I won't get started on the issues I have with chem salt ferts, that's another debate entirely. In any event, I'm willing to try it your way and go back to making my rooting solution a richer concoction, but if it doesn't work, do I get to disagree with you on those points, without feeling attacked?

For the most part this has been an informative thread, even if many of us disagree with each other. It's important to understand that everyone has a 'what's best' for them, which may not always jive with the hardcore 'production' numbers, methods, etc. There are *lots* of things the commercial people do that I vehemently disagree with, and vice versa, I've had many a conversation on the subject. Let's just keep it friendly, even if/when in disagreement, ok?

Bleach + Physan 20 (alternating Tx, not used together) wasn't doing it in my situation, once I began using isopropyl alcohol along with other compounds like bleach, I found I was able to achieve a cleaner cloner. Maybe I'll whip out my RE again, haven't used it in a couple of years...

.... Spoken like one of the adults in the room. Why Seamaiden is a moderator here, also. Well played. Great thread, and agree 100% with every word. More eloqueantky stated and with more patience than I would have had.

 

[MeJuana]

No nutrients needed, very little light, I have no clue my cloner temps but the room is 75F, 18/6 lighting. It has been ages since I lost a clone I typically see 100%.

Personally I was taught, that root mass has to equal green foilage mass, before potting it up. I have followed this advice, and continue to do so.. with good results

If you have a decent root you can just chop the top to match the bottom.

 

[Funkadelic]

Hey MeJ do you run your pump 24/7 or short cycle?
How often do you change water?
Any rez cleaner (e.g. alcohol, pool chlorine, peroxide)?