Fermented Plant Extracts and making your own nutrient line

[Dunge]

I got this one.
AN = Advanced Nutrients (one of the many companies selling expensive grow juice for our favorite plants)

 

[justiceman]

Man I keep checking back to see if this thread has blown up. I really like this concept and I'm extremely interested. Is it imperative to use fresh or dried seaweed in the PFE?

I'm not so sure AN means advanced nutreints. I think it has more to do with the FPE itslef. I could be wrong though.

Since your interested i'll tell you how i make my AN FPE without LB

AN(?) FPE(Fermented Plant Extract) LB(lactobacillus)


Yo Hashshashin! Got any more recipes? They sound great so far. This may sound like a stupid question since we are talking organics but do the PFE require any type of PH adjustment considering they have a low PH around 3.5 if I'm not mistaken. Also do you know if the slight amount of alcohol produced has any beneficial/harmful effects on soil or plants?

 

[leadsled]

AN = Ascophyllum Nodosum

 

[Buddy Hemphill]

I have rabbits.

Would a cup or two of composted bunny doo help my soil web?....not just the nutrient value, but microbials.

There are myco webs all over/in the bunny poo. Its about 6 months old.

I use EWC and Alaskan Humus in my soil along with store bought bene's.

Could this add to....or possibly replace... the store bought bene's?

 

[dextr0]

Justice the fermenting process brings the ph down. Thats how you know when the FPE is ready.

some quotes i took from a convesation between two dudes:

"I took 1 part of seed meal that I use and added to that 3 parts of a combination of rice hulls, rice bran and fir wood chips. I added the correct amount of AEM (Activated EM-1) and set it aside to ferment.

When it hit <3.0 pH (actually it hit 2.8 pH when it was finally finished) I added this to the soil mix instead of the regular fertilizer mix. The amount that I added was 10% of the total humus content (EWC, thermal compost and Alaska Humus) and with such a low pH one would expect to see all kinds of problems what with 'nute lockout' and others horrors of growing cannabis."

"Let it ferment down to < 3.5 pH and you'll know that you're up and running."

...Also your diluting your culture 1:20 parts water. So i would think the alcohol level would be minimal if any.

 

[justiceman]

Yo leadsled thanks for the AN description.

Justice the fermenting process brings the ph down. Thats how you know when the FPE is ready.

some quotes i took from a convesation between two dudes:

"I took 1 part of seed meal that I use and added to that 3 parts of a combination of rice hulls, rice bran and fir wood chips. I added the correct amount of AEM (Activated EM-1) and set it aside to ferment.

When it hit <3.0 pH (actually it hit 2.8 pH when it was finally finished) I added this to the soil mix instead of the regular fertilizer mix. The amount that I added was 10% of the total humus content (EWC, thermal compost and Alaska Humus) and with such a low pH one would expect to see all kinds of problems what with 'nute lockout' and others horrors of growing cannabis."

"Let it ferment down to < 3.5 pH and you'll know that you're up and running."

...Also your diluting your culture 1:20 parts water. So i would think the alcohol level would be minimal if any.

Good info dextro! So a low PH for FPE is a must. Good to know. This subject is quite interesting to me. I like your post on different microorganism cultures. Hell this is getting really interesting. Also about those FPE of fruit like papaya. Do they cover plant macro nutrition(NPK etc.) or do they cover secondaries and catalyst actions(cal, mag, sugar, vitamins, humates, enzymes etc)? Also if using calcium phosphate what is a good option to make your own magnesium supplement?

And of course if you have any recipes dextro I wouldn't mind if you posted them hehe.

Ascophyllum Nodosum Extract
1. Take about a cup per gallon of powdered Ascophyllum Nodosum and molasses, in this case the bacterial bloom is beneficial since were trying to remove the o2 to create a fermentation.
2. Put powder in bottle and mix with water. Shake until mixed well. Leave cap loose and place somewhere you'll see it
3. Everyday shake/stir it as much as you can and than keep lid loose again.(Remember to tighten the lid if your gonna shake it!!)
4. Do this for 2-4 weeks you'll notice a creamy head layer to the solution when shaken. It will also be a nice light brown color and should smell sweet.
5. Once you can see that the life has ceased inside the solution(Lack of bubbles at top) you filter the solution so the original food source is drained.
6. You can put this in a bottle and store it up to a year, dilute it as necessary. I can't guarantee a nutritional analysis, but YOU CAN BURN PLANTS WITH THESE, so start low and work your way up. Maybe try it on some garden plants before you try your valuable crop. That is how FPE differ from AACT, they are nutrient extracts not microbial extracts.

Fish Fermentation- This is a FPE but is another fermented product. I think its the best you can get and works much better with Lactobacillus because i hate the smell while fermenting and lactobacillus takes good care of the smell. I'd suggest using papaya if you cant find LB, because it has enzymes that help break down the matter. It works well for FPE or Fish Hydroslate.

1. Grind down left fish you may have, the oilier the fish the better(salmon, mackerel, tuna; if they have bones in them thats even better). Grind this in a blender with until its a paste to make sure to speed up the process.
2. In a bucket fill with a carbon source half full such as sawdust. Mix water fish, molasses and humic acid.
3. Let this rot for a couple of weeks and stir as much as possible(once a day) until it has rotted.
4. You can add this straight to your compost/soil mix which is what i do. It adds pretty much all the good things you can imagine. Vitamins, Omega Acids, Proteins, Macro nutrients, Micro nutrients and Humic/Fulvic Acids.

Fish plus seaweed Ascophyllum Nodosum in general provides everything that liquid karma does. Granted LK smells a lot better and can be used as a foliar feed. I think the fish hydroslate is a great thing when "cooking" your soil though since it brings many microbes to the mix.

TCM- i'm glad you liked my idea on Ascophyllum Nodosum. Right now i'm to the point where since i use cloning powder i simply mix 50powder/50AN.
My favorite is to soak the clones in the solution of AN and humic acid directly after being cut to make sure theres a minimal chance of o2 from entering the wound. 15-30mins later I dip in the 50/50 powder and plant directly in jiffy cubes with some mychrozzial in the hole.
Its worked well for me, with the exception of finding the right clone mix and the move. Just make sure not to let a cut sit out of water for to long after being snipped, thats probably the biggest killer IMO.

I find these recipes quite informative hashshashin. The first was pretty straight forward on the measurements about AN, except it doesn't say how much molasses you should add. Mind enlightening me?

Also what are the amounts of fish, humics, and sawdust(carbon) for the second recipe?

And if you have any other recipes PLEASE post them. I would really like to check them out if possible!

 

[dextr0]

Do they cover plant macro nutrition(NPK etc.) or do they cover secondaries and catalyst actions(cal, mag, sugar, vitamins, humates, enzymes etc)?

To my understanding depending on what plant (or matter ie..fish) we use to extract we will be getting certain amino, enzymes, minerals, vita, etc... Also from what ive been reading what we use to break these down will affect end product. This is what got me interested in the first place also. As I have had good results with my AACTs but always felt something was missing since I had to keep resorting to bottled ferts to make quick fixes. The thing is Organic matter is not always readily available to our plant and has to be broken down by microbes before hand. This takes time and when your having a deficiency right now that does little help...Comes in the FPE. By breaking down organic matter before hand we have something that is more readily available to our plant and does not take the extra time needed because its already broke down.

Heres a npk list a dude named sophisto pasted on another site that ive been thinking about...

Alfalfa Hay: 2.45/05/2.1
Apple Fruit: 0.05/0.02/0.1
Apple Leaves: 1.0/0.15/0.4
Apple Pomace: 0.2/0.02/0.15
Apple skins(ash) : 0/3.0/11/74
Banana Residues (ash): 1.75/0.75/0.5
Barley (grain): 0/0/0.5
Barley (straw): 0/0/1.0
Basalt Rock: 0/0/1.5
Bat Guano: 5.0-8.0/4.0-5.0/1.0
Beans, garden(seed and hull): 0.25/0.08/03
Beet Wastes: 0.4/0.4/0.7-4.1
Blood meal: 15.0/0/0
Bone Black: 1.5/0/0
Bonemeal (raw): 3.3-4.1/21.0/0.2
Bonemeal (steamed): 1.6-2.5/21.0/0.2
Brewery Wastes (wet): 1.0/0.5/0.05
Buckwheat straw: 0/0/2.0
Cantaloupe Rinds (ash): 0/9.77/12.0
Castor pomace: 4.0-6.6/1.0-2.0/1.0-2.0
Cattail reeds and water lily stems: 2.0/0.8/3.4
Cattail Seed: 0.98/0.25/0.1
Cattle Manure (fresh): 0.29/0.25/0.1
Cherry Leaves: 0.6/0/0.7
Chicken Manure (fresh): 1.6/1.0-1.5/0.6-1.0
Clover: 2/0/0/0 (also contains calcium)
Cocoa Shell Dust: 1.0/1.5/1.7 Coffee Grounds: 2.0/0.36/0.67
Corn (grain): 1.65/0.65/0.4
Corn (green forage): 0.4/0.13/0.33
Corn cobs: 0/0/2.0
Corn Silage: 0.42/0/0
Cornstalks: 0.75/0/0.8
Cottonseed hulls (ash): 0/8.7/23.9Cottonseed Meal: 7.0/2.0-3.0/1.8
Cotton Wastes (factory): 1.32/0.45/0.36
Cowpea Hay: 3.0/0/2.3
Cowpeas (green forage): 0.45/0.12/0.45
Cowpeas (seed): 3.1/1.0/1.2
Crabgrass (green): 0.66/0.19/0.71
Crabs (dried, ground): 10.0/0/0 (I personally just crush the shells with my foot)
Crabs (fresh): 5.0/3.6/0.2
Cucumber Skins (ash): 0/11.28/27.2 ( WOW!!!! Who knew???)
Dried Blood: 10.0-14.0/1.0-5.0/0
Duck Manure (fresh): 1.12/1.44/0.6
Eggs: 2.25/0.4/0.15
Eggshells: 1.19/0.38/0.14
Feathers: 15.3/0/0
Felt Wastes: 14.0/0/1.0
Field Beans (seed): 4.0/1.2/1.3
Feild Beans (shells): 1.7/0.3/1.3
Fish (dried, ground): 8.0/7.0/0
Fish Scraps (fresh): 6.5/3.75/0
Gluten Meal: 6.4/0/0
Granite Dust: 0/0/3.0-5.5
Grapefruit Skins (ash): 0/3.6/30.6 (And people throw these things away? Wow!)
Grape Leaves: 0.45/0.1/0.4
Grape Pomace: 1.0/0.07/0.3
Grass (imature): 1.0/0/1.2
Greensand: 0/1.5/7.0
Hair: 14/0/0/0
Hoof and Horn Meal: 12.5/2.0/0
Horse Manure (fresh): 0.44/0.35/0.3
Incinerator Ash: 0.24/5.15/2.33
Jellyfish (dried): 4.6/0/0
Kentucky Bluegrass (green): 0.66/0.19/0.71
Kentucky Bluegrass (hay): 1.2/0.4/2.0
Leather Dust: 11.0/0/0
Lemon Culls: 0.15/0.06/0.26
Lemon Skins (ash): 06.33/1.0
Lobster Refuse: 4.5/3.5/0
Milk: 0.5/0.3/0.18
Millet Hay: 1.2/0/3.2
Molasses Residue
(From alcohol manufacture): 0.7/0/5.32
Molasses Waste
(From Sugar refining): 0/0/3.0-4.0
Mud (fresh water): 1.37/0.26/0.22
Mud (harbour): 0.99/0.77/0.05
Mud (salt): 0.4.0/0
Mussels: 1.0/0.12/0.13
Nutshells: 2.5/0/0
Oak Leaves: 0.8/0.35/0.2
Oats (grain): 2.0/0.8/0.6
Oats (green fodder): 0.49/0/0
Oat straw: 0/0/1.5
Olive Pomace: 1.15/0.78/1.3
Orange Culls: 0.2/0.13/0.21
Orange Skins: 0/3.0/27.0 (Right up there with Grapefruit. Note: both can attract fruit flies so, bury them in the compost)
Oyster Shells: 0.36/0/0
Peach Leaves: 0.9/0.15/0.6
Pea forage: 1.5-2.5/0/1.4
Peanuts (seed/kernals): 3.6/0.7/0.45
Peanut Shells: 3.6/0.15/0.5 (I grind them up in the food processor first)
Pea Pods (ash): 0/3.0/9.0 (I cut them up with a pair of scissors while shelling them)
Pea (vines): 0.25/0/0.7
Pear Leaves: 0.7/0/0.4
Pigeon manure (fresh): 4.19/2.24/1.0
Pigweed (rough): 0.6/0.1/0
Pine Needles: 0.5/0.12/0.03
Potato Skins (ash): 0/5.18/27.5
Potaote Tubers: 0.35/0.15/2.5
Potatoe Vines (dried): 0.6/0.16/1.6
Prune Refuse: 0.18/0.07/0.31
Pumpkins (fresh): 0.16/0.07/0.26
Rabbitbrush (ash): 0/0/13.04
Rabbit Manure: 2.4/1.4/0.6
Ragweed: 0.76/0.26/0
Rapeseed meal: 0/1.0=2.0/1.0=3.0
Raspberry leaves: 1.45/0/0.6
Red clover hay: 2.1/0.6/2.1
Redrop Hay: 1.2/0.35/1.0
Rock and Mussel Deposits
From Ocean: 0.22/0.09/1.78
Roses (flowers): 0.3/0.1/0.4
Rye Straw: 0/0/1.0
Salt March Hay: 1.1/0.25/0.75
Sardine Scrap: 8.0/7.1/0
Seaweed (dried): 1.1-1.5/0.75/4.9 (Seaweed is loaded with micronutrients including: Boron, Iodine, Magnesium and so on.)
Seaweed (fresh): 0.2-0.4/0/0
Sheep and Goat Manure (fresh): 0.55/0.6/0.3
Shoddy and Felt: 8.0/0/0
Shrimp Heads (dried): 7.8/4.2/0
Shrimp Wastes: 2.9/10.0/0
Siftings From Oyster Shell Mounds: 0.36/10.38/0.09
Silk Mill Wastes: 8.0/1.14/1.0
Silkworm Cocoons:10.0/1.82/1.08
Sludge: 2.0/1.9/0.3
Sludge (activated): 5.0/2.5-4.0/0.6
Smokehouse/Firepit Ash:0/0/4.96 (I put the ashes from my smoker in the pile)
Sorghum Straw:0/0/1.0
Soybean Hay: 1.5-3.0/0/1.2-2.3
Starfish: 1.8/0.2/0.25
Sugar Wastes (raw): 2.0/8.0/0
Sweet Potatoes: 0.25/0.1/0.5
Swine Manure (fresh): 0.6/0.45/0.5
Tanbark Ash: 0/0.34/3.8
Tanbark Ash (spent): 0/1.75/2.0
Tankage: 3.0-11.0/2.0-5.0/0
Tea Grounds: 4.15/0.62/0.4
Timothy Hay: 1.2/0.55/1.4
Tobacco Leaves: 4.0/0.5/6.0
Tobacco Stems: 2.5-3.7/0.6-0.9/4.5-7.0
Tomatoe Fruit: 0.2/0.07/0.35 (A note on tomatoe fruit: These should be hot composted. I just let any rotted or insect eaten tomatoes compost in the soil beneath the plants and have "freebees" come back each consecutive year. Hot composting will kill the seeds.)
Tomatoe Leaves: 0.35/0.1/0.4
Tomatoe Stalks: 0.35/0.1/0.5
Tung Oil Pumace: 6.1/0/0
Vetch Hay: 2.8/0/2.3
Waste Silt: 9.5/0/0
Wheat Bran: 2.4/2.9/1.6
Wheat (grain): 2.0/0.85/0.5
Wheat Straw: 0.5/0.15/0.8
White Clover (Green): 0.5/0.2/0.3
Winter Rye Hay: 0/0/1.0
Wood Ash: 0/1.0-2.0/6.0-10.0 (A note on Wood ash: Wood Ash can contain chemicals that could harm plants and also carcinogens so, they should be composted in moderation)
Wool Wastes: 3.5-6.0/2.0-4.0/1.0-3.5

Also if using calcium phosphate what is a good option to make your own magnesium supplement?

I dont know yet but ill get back to u on this because im planing on making and using some soon.

And of course if you have any recipes dextro I wouldn't mind if you posted them hehe.

How to make EM-FPE (Fermented Plant Extract)
For centuries extracts have been used as elixirs for all sorts of ailments. Individuals would seek out certain plant materials that were known for their beneficial properties and ferment them to extract the desired benefits. This same technology can be used to extract properties from plants such as geranium to make a citronella extra for keeping away mosquitoes. Hot peppers and garlic are also known for their pest-deterring properties. If you incorporate companion planting (basil with tomato), you may find a winning combination to give the effect you want.

Weeds and other green material can be recycled into an organic foliar spray and insect repellent. During fermentation EM-1 is able to ferment weeds and extract organic acids, bio-active substances, minerals, and other useful organic compounds from these materials which are able to promote plant growth and repel diseases or insects.

What you will need:

A clean airtight plastic container, bucket or large tank with lid*
EM-1
Sugar Cane Molasses
Water (use good water, preferably activated with EM-X ceramics)
Chopped, fresh weeds & herbs
Gauze or cloth for filtering
A measuring cup and large spoon for stirring
pH paper to check pH
Fermentation aids include a non-metallic heating rod and a airlock.

*Please wash container thoroughly and do not use a glass container to avoid rupturing the container caused by gas production during the fermentation process.


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Recipe:

5 % EM-1
5 % Sugar cane molasses
45 % Fresh, chopped plant material like weeds & herbs
45 % Water


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Example to make a 20 litre bucket of EM-FPE:

1 l EM-1 (you must use EM-1, don't use EM-A!)
1 l Sugar cane molasses
9 l Water (use good water, preferably activated with EM-X ceramics)
9 l (1-2kg) Fresh, chopped plant material like weeds & herbs**


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If you need different amounts of EM-FPE, use our EM-FPE Calculator


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Instructions:

Cut fresh weeds and chop up well (2-5 cm pieces)
Put chopped weeds into bucket
Fill the molasses with some hot water (approx. 60-80°C) and the remaining water (total approx. 40°C) into the plastic bucket
Add the EM-1 to the mix
Cover the top of bucket with black plastic bag and press down the lid on it
Put weight on the lid. Take care to push out extra air from the bucket
Store bucket in a warm place (20-35 °C), away from direct Sunlight
Fermentation begins, gas is generated within 2-5 days, depending on temp
Stir the weeds in the bucket regularly to release the gas
The EM-FPE is ready for use when pH of solution is below 3.5 (this should take between 7-10 days). Put EM-FPE into plastic bottles after removing weeds by filtration with gauze or cloth
EM-FPE should be stored in a dark, cool place at uniform temperature, but not in a refrigerator or in bright sunlight
Use EM-FPE within 3 months

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Spray on plants at 1:500 to 1:1000
Spray on soil (to suppress disease) at 1:100 to 1:500
** use plants and herbs like: mugwort, artemisia, clover, nettle, camomile, borage, dandelion, vervain, sage, thyme, rose-leafs - you could also add a few garlic cloves and chili pods.

 

[Jack Dupp]

Hello all,

I started the process to make EM using rice wash 9 days ago, and do not see any separation in my jar. I followed the directions posted earlier.

Anyone have experience with this? Should I pitch it, or wait longer.

My method: One handful of organic rice in a 16 oz. mason jar. Filled 3/4 with filtered water, shaken until cloudy. Strained out rice, replaced rice wash in jar. Jar placed in cupboard above refrigerator, with lid on (leaving small gap). The jar is out of light and in a stable temp.

Thanks.

 

[phenotyper]

This is a fantastic thread. I am subscribing to see future recipes. I really want to try the Liquid Karma-esque recipe.

How well would it work to use the AN recipe along with mixing in other beneficials, like dried seaweed and spinach?

 

[dextr0]

Hello all,

I started the process to make EM using rice wash 9 days ago, and do not see any separation in my jar. I followed the directions posted earlier.

Anyone have experience with this? Should I pitch it, or wait longer.

My method: One handful of organic rice in a 16 oz. mason jar. Filled 3/4 with filtered water, shaken until cloudy. Strained out rice, replaced rice wash in jar. Jar placed in cupboard above refrigerator, with lid on (leaving small gap). The jar is out of light and in a stable temp.

Thanks.

Jack what is it looking like??
anything like this??

 

[jack_ripa]

Ok, funny true story along these same lines. When I was gardening I weeded my vege garden and all the weeds n a wheelbarrow. Well, where we lived it was prone to rain for a week at a time and it did. Well, when I finally went back out I found that my wheelbarrow was full of water and weeds. I forgot about it for about two weeks on the side of my tomatoes until one day when I was applying fish ferts to my tom rows my daughter who was about 4 at the time poured the entire barrow onto the tomatoes I hadn't fertilized yet. Long story short....the ones that got the weed juice went NUTS.

I have been a believer ever since. My theory now is, look at what is working and try to imitate what is happening. So I look around my garden, I don't plant wheat anymore, I just lay wheat straw between my rows of corn and then plant somewhere else next year. As soon as I stop walking on them the wheat grows out from under the corn waste and goes crazy with the broken down corn compost.

Great thread, love the culture recipes, thanks.

 

[Jack Dupp]

dextr0 - thanks for the reply.

I was unable to open your picture. Here is a photo from this morning.

 

[justiceman]

Sweet info dextro thanks! That NPK list is key no doubt man. Oh man the options are endless. I love it.

 

[dextr0]

Jack you should put some holes in it if you going to have the top ring on, just make sure you dont get anything falling in there. Kinda cover the holes with some cloth or somethin.

 

[Jack Dupp]

Jack you should put some holes in it if you going to have the top ring on, just make sure you dont get anything falling in there. Kinda cover the holes with some cloth or somethin.

I have the lid (without screw top) covering the top with about a 1/16 inch gap.

It is also placed in a cupboard which is dark.

The picture was to show what my rice wash looks like after 9 days. In other pictures I have seen, there is quite a bit of activity on top of the wash in about 5 days. Like cheese or something.

Mine has zip.

The rice I used was organic brown sweet rice. It was stored in my refrigerator. Maybe I need to kick start fermentation with some organic beer or soy sauce?

 

[dextr0]

I have the lid (without screw top) covering the top with about a 1/16 inch gap.

It is also placed in a cupboard which is dark.

The picture was to show what my rice wash looks like after 9 days. In other pictures I have seen, there is quite a bit of activity on top of the wash in about 5 days. Like cheese or something.

Mine has zip.

The rice I used was organic brown sweet rice. It was stored in my refrigerator. Maybe I need to kick start fermentation with some organic beer or soy sauce?

^^^yea i know your mix looks like the finished product minus the top part that u scrape off. I was just suggesting more breathing. Most times ive seen this done the people used WHITE RICE. Im not positive that makes a big difference but...
Do you know the ph??

 

[Jack Dupp]

dextr0-
I just checked the PH with a GH Test kit (the kind with the drops) and it came out around 8.0.
I'm thinking it's time to scrap this and try again.

 

[dextr0]

^^^try white rice. Started mine yesterday and im already getting the top. I washed same rice twice with same water just for the hell of it. I think this is way better then one wash.

 

[Jack Dupp]

Thanks dextr0, I'll pick up some tomorrow and try it.

 

[slunk]

Great thread! I need to do this. I purchased some EM, have made bokashi and AEM, yet still have a bunch remaining. Bokashi Composting is amazing. Next time, I'll try the rice wash to create my own EM.