First Clones - Growth on stem, PM?

[Swany]

Here are the asked for specs -

clones (from a room I know nothing about)
10 days
2 to 3 inches
home made cloner
Clonex clone feed
6 to 6.3 ph
well water - 50 ppm after sed/carbon/greensand filter
950 ppm solution
75 degree solution
not really
PH tends to rise
spray with filtered water, no feed yet
currently (4) 5000k T8 bulbs in homemade fixture
12" away from plants
11' x 14' bedroom
72 - 75 degrees at 50%
one small little flying bug
10 days worth of experience ;-}

I'm just starting out, having a blast building my room. A friend brought clones of Blues City Diesel and Cinex plus two African Elephants in grow medium/cups up from PDX for my first grow. They are -not- in the room yet. Some small circles of faint white powder showed up on a couple of fan leaves on the AF, pulled them. Now on the Blues clones there are, well... just take a look -

If someone tells me this is just salt from over feeding I'm going to jump for joy so loudly you'll hear me though the forum. Can anyone tell me what's going on with my new babies?

Thank you -

 

[alpinehi]

If they were salt or calcium build-ups, they likely wouldn't be on your fan leaves unless you were foliar feeding. Looks and sounds to me like you ought to be wary. Check out this link: http://www.mandalaseeds.com/Guides/Marijuana-Mildew

 

[Swany]

That's a good link - Thanks Alpinehi. There is stuff there I have not heard of.

 

[paulycali]

if it's pm hit em with some eagle20

 

[Swany]

I've heard of Eagle 20 and thought it was hard to get. Shows up on an Amazon search though, so hopefully I can find it local. I was also going to look for Eco Smart and GreenCure. They are still in the cloner so I figure by smoking time they should be pretty clean.

The big question.... Is it PM? I don't know, but apparently I'm going to be dealing with PM up here in the great Pacific NW so I might as well stock up.

 

[shawnskush]

yeah a whole lotta of humidity and mold/mildew problems with it up there! hope you get this issue settled good luck to you!

 

[souphead]

I could be wrong, but I don't think the stuff on your stems is PM? I do see slight whiteish areas on your leaves, the pics not good enough to tell for sure though. Get a magnifier and be on the lookout for any fuzzy white areas on your leaves.

 

[Seamaiden]

I've heard of Eagle 20 and thought it was hard to get. Shows up on an Amazon search though, so hopefully I can find it local. I was also going to look for Eco Smart and GreenCure. They are still in the cloner so I figure by smoking time they should be pretty clean.

The big question.... Is it PM? I don't know, but apparently I'm going to be dealing with PM up here in the great Pacific NW so I might as well stock up.

Learn what E20 is before you get it, and learn how it works before you get it, and finally, have at least one more single site mode-of-action fungicide that's effective against PM before you buy the E20, or you'll be contributing toward developing resistant PM.

However, what's on your stems doesn't look like PM to me, nor am I aware of it being able to grow (fruit) on stems like that. I have also never seen it cause thickening like I see in the picture. I personally think you're dealing with at least two different diseases if you've observed what sounds precisely like PM fruiting bodies (the circular stuff that formed on the leaves) and then are observing this crud that's forming on the stems. Do the stems feel mushy, and have you cut any of them open.

I would add aspirin to the regimen, 1 tablet/gallon water, as a foliar or root drench. I would use a physical barrier for the PM, and probably start using some H2O2 and perhaps a quaternary ammonium compound for the stem stuff. I like JMS Stylet oil for a physical barrier, and it's also a fantastic adjuvant for spray mixes, and it's also fantastic for spider mites.

 

[Swany]

I could be wrong, but I don't think the stuff on your stems is PM? I do see slight whiteish areas on your leaves, the pics not good enough to tell for sure though. Get a magnifier and be on the lookout for any fuzzy white areas on your leaves.

Thanks Souphead - I did find what you speak of earlier and eradicated it the easy way, pulled off the leaves. I have not seen it develop again but will take steps to prevent it none the less. Finding the little white spots was what made me think the growths in the pictures above could be PM related

 

[Swany]

Learn what E20 is before you get it, and learn how it works before you get it, and finally, have at least one more single site mode-of-action fungicide that's effective against PM before you buy the E20, or you'll be contributing toward developing resistant PM.

However, what's on your stems doesn't look like PM to me, nor am I aware of it being able to grow (fruit) on stems like that. I have also never seen it cause thickening like I see in the picture. I personally think you're dealing with at least two different diseases if you've observed what sounds precisely like PM fruiting bodies (the circular stuff that formed on the leaves) and then are observing this crud that's forming on the stems. Do the stems feel mushy, and have you cut any of them open.

I would add aspirin to the regimen, 1 tablet/gallon water, as a foliar or root drench. I would use a physical barrier for the PM, and probably start using some H2O2 and perhaps a quaternary ammonium compound for the stem stuff. I like JMS Stylet oil for a physical barrier, and it's also a fantastic adjuvant for spray mixes, and it's also fantastic for spider mites.

Yes Seamaiden, I know that E20 is nasty stuff and according to the artical posted by Alpinehi I must change it up with other stuff if using it to prevent resistance.

If I'm going to add aspirin as a root drench, can I just add it to the solution in the cloner? I read the H2O2 goes in at 2.5 tsp. (3%) per gallon of water, sound right? I have Neem but from what I know I always wash it off after a short period. From what I gather you do not wash JMS off, correct? Did you know it is a Federal Offense to use that product in a manner inconstant with it's labeling? (I can't stand safety labels...!)

I have not cut them open or felt them. Just checked the water before leaving for work, wish I had checked here first. I will go home at lunch and check on them then report back.

Thank you ;-}

 

[reeldrag]

Not pm its a form of mold that happens in very humid conditions hit it with 35% h202 at 25 mils per gallon will solve issue but get it under control cuz it can will over run the plant greencure works as well but be careful with it on young plants some strains do have phototoxicity to greencure get them out of cloner and into a less humid area will work wonders clean cloner with physain 20 or problem will keep coming back goodluck

 

[Swany]

Thanks Reeldrag - humidity has been 40% to 50% the entire time I've had the clones. They came from Portland, a place as wet as here. If the grow store has 35% i'm getting it at lunch (long lunch today ;-) if not I'll have to use 3% and up the dose.

Will a strong bleach solution not sterilize the cloner well enough after the plants go into the tubs?

 

[reeldrag]

Bleach will work but it tends to leave behind residue where physain doesn't but it will work do not use the 3% crappy u buy at drug store it is filled with nasty other chemicals if grow shop doesn't have try a heath store they carry the food grade h202 people drink it before races and such good luck bro also since they r so young there r a few Chen products that work that u can get at home depot bayer 3and1 will work but it is full on chemical but since they r so young it will b gone by harvest but that's up to u I try to stay away from chemicals but each there own

 

[alpinehi]

Bleach works well also. Chlorine however is corrosive so prolonged use could damage plastics and metals. Physan 20 is in a group of disinfectants knowns as quaternary ammonium chloride salts (Q-salts). Q-salts do not provide prolonged protection. They may eradicate certain pathogens, but will have little residual activity. Contact with any type of organic matter will inactivate them. So if you were going to use Physan 20 UMass recommends that you "pre-clean objects to dislodge organic matter prior to application. Because it is difficult to tell when they become inactive, prepare fresh solutions frequently (twice a day if in constant use). The products tend to foam a bit when they are active. When foaming stops, it is a sign they are no longer effective. No rinsing with water is needed."

Also H202 is hydrogen peroxide, not related to bleach. Not sure if that was implied or not.


Source: http://extension.umass.edu/floriculture/node/56

 

[Swany]

However, what's on your stems doesn't look like PM to me, nor am I aware of it being able to grow (fruit) on stems like that. I have also never seen it cause thickening like I see in the picture. I personally think you're dealing with at least two different diseases if you've observed what sounds precisely like PM fruiting bodies (the circular stuff that formed on the leaves) and then are observing this crud that's forming on the stems. Do the stems feel mushy, and have you cut any of them open.

The stems are solid, feel just like all the rest of the stems. I shaved off a bit of the bubbly whiteness and there was solid, clean green stem underneath. Right underneath, the stuff is only skin deep.

 

[Swany]

Bleach will work but it tends to leave behind residue where physain doesn't but it will work do not use the 3% crappy u buy at drug store it is filled with nasty other chemicals if grow shop doesn't have try a heath store they carry the food grade h202 people drink it before races and such good luck bro also since they r so young there r a few Chen products that work that u can get at home depot bayer 3and1 will work but it is full on chemical but since they r so young it will b gone by harvest but that's up to u I try to stay away from chemicals but each there own

Got it, thanks - Physain leaves no residue = better than bleach. There happens to be a heath food store right next to the grow store so I'll check there for quality H2O2, and in a pinch I can just take a swig to bring out my inner blond.

 

[Swany]

Contact with any type of organic matter will inactivate them. So if you were going to use Physan 20 UMass recommends that you "pre-clean objects to dislodge organic matter prior to application. Because it is difficult to tell when they become inactive, prepare fresh solutions frequently (twice a day if in constant use). The products tend to foam a bit when they are active. When foaming stops, it is a sign they are no longer effective. No rinsing with water is needed."

MORE cleaning?!? I knew there was a downside to growing your own...

Thx Alpinehi ;-}

 

[green punk]

salts or ca build up

 

[Swany]

salts or ca build up

that's what I think, but with '0' experience I'm not listening to my self. I treated with an natural based fungiside and added h2o2 to the solution. Roots are growing and starting to develop hairs, leafs for the most part are looking good. The guy guiding me on hydro directed me to add more Clonex Clone food, though it seems like it was not so much as to cause huge salt buildup. I added 20 to 30% more than called for to get ppm up to 950 on his recommendation.

Bed time - lot's of work to do tomorrow...after work. finish plumbing, fill and test system, assemble and hang Awings, maybe even fill and test system!

 

[Seamaiden]

Well, jeez... if it's salt build-up (from feedings), wouldn't it just wash off with water? Ca build-up would require an acid, I'm not comfortable suggesting you throw some vinegar on the plants. But, if the stems are firm, green, and everything 'down-stem' is fine, then that would suggest something other than a pathogen.

Yes Seamaiden, I know that E20 is nasty stuff and according to the artical posted by Alpinehi I must change it up with other stuff if using it to prevent resistance.

Whew! I'm not so much into hollering that it's carcinogenic, I don't know that factually. But the resistance thing is problematic.

If I'm going to add aspirin as a root drench, can I just add it to the solution in the cloner? I read the H2O2 goes in at 2.5 tsp. (3%) per gallon of water, sound right? I have Neem but from what I know I always wash it off after a short period. From what I gather you do not wash JMS off, correct? Did you know it is a Federal Offense to use that product in a manner inconstant with it's labeling? (I can't stand safety labels...!)

I have not cut them open or felt them. Just checked the water before leaving for work, wish I had checked here first. I will go home at lunch and check on them then report back.

Thank you ;-}

Yes, I don't see why you can't just throw it in the cloner. No, JMS does not need to be rinsed off at all. Yes, I know about the labeling laws, but... I won't say more except to say that I understand the need for the labeling as it is. ;)

If your water is hard, then it very well may be a build-up of lime, scale, whatever is in the water. What I don't understand is why in those areas and nowhere else. But, at this point, I say if the plants appear to be doing well otherwise, let it be and call it learning.

Btw, I'd been having problems with my home-made aerocloner UNTIL I incorporated isopropyl alcohol into my cleaning regimen. Had been using bleach, Physan 20, and H2O2, and still wasn't getting good results, having problems with cloning. Then, I started squirting the whole thing down with the iso after I'd finished with the other products, let it dry, et voila, damn near as good as new. I know this is your first trip down Cloning Road, but you may want to file this info away in your memory banks in case doing the usual isn't cutting it.