First DWC. overwhelmed with names and chemicals and additives

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Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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I did try to research and plan this as much as I could. With all the wrong guys I guess because serval told me that it would fine and that it’s easy to wash the soil off and toss em in hydro.

I thought roots were roots. We’ve taken clones from hydro guys and thrown them in soil before 🤷‍♀️
I feel for ya... lots of conflicting info out there.
 
tobh

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use enzymes like hydroguard
PK1, Hydroguard is not an enzyme. Enzymes are compounds that facilitate rapid decomposition of dead organic matter. Hydroguard is a bacteria. Bacillus amyloliquefaciens to be exact. Hygrozyme and Cannazyme are enzymes. There are others available, I listed the two most popular. Please don't spread half-assed misinformation. Enzymes go hand in hand with bacterial cultures such as hydroguard or southern ag when running a live res.

OP, pool shock is chlorine (be mindful of what you buy, you want one that doesn't buffer pH) and should be used as such:

5grams per gallon of water (RO or distilled, distilled preferred) to make a concentrate. 5ml concentrate per gallon of res nutrient solution volume, applied every three days (tricky as the plants drink).

Enzymes cannot be used with pool shock, they do NOT play well together. This is a one or the other decision. H2o2 plays nice with enzymes. A quick google search will give you the volumes of H2o2 to res volume required.

It doesn't look like you're on that path now, so simply note this down should you choose to run sterile.

I see a flood in the making.

Those lines are going to plug up with roots at the bottom and you'll be pumping water on the top
OP, heed this. I ran into a similar situation, and through drastic measures am now in a questionable spot. Drains should either be prepped to deal with roots or large enough to avoid flood situations.
 
User59204626117

User59204626117

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I have enzyme komplete. I thought someone said earlier not to get h202 with that kind of setup?

so it sounds like enzymes are always good and cant really be used too much (within reason) or cause a ton of harm? theyre like a cleaner with nothing but positives?

h202 I thought was liquid oxygen and can be ran in almost anything too and has no negatives? thats just 29-32% hydrogen peroxide?

pool shock im not sure why id want chlorine? I thought we evaporate chlorine by letting water sit out and or bubble for a day or so?

hydroguard is bacteria and also seems to not have too many negatives and helps in many ways?
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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I have enzyme komplete. I thought someone said earlier not to get h202 with that kind of setup?

so it sounds like enzymes are always good and cant really be used too much (within reason) or cause a ton of harm? theyre like a cleaner with nothing but positives?

h202 I thought was liquid oxygen and can be ran in almost anything too and has n negatives?

pool shock im not sure why id want chlorine? I thought we evaporate chlorine by letting water sit out and or bubble for a day or so?

hydroguard is bacteria and also seems to not have too many negatives and helps in many ways?
Either h202 or hydrogaurd can't use both. H202 is hydrogen peroxide
 
tobh

tobh

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I have enzyme komplete. I thought someone said earlier not to get h202 with that kind of setup?

Run it at whatever is recommended on the label. Enzymes don't impact pH or EC, so run it somewhere between the min and max on the label. I use Hygrozyme and run it at 3 fluid oz to 9 gallons of solution.

so it sounds like enzymes are always good and cant really be used too much (within reason) or cause a ton of harm? theyre like a cleaner with nothing but positives?
Anything in excess can be harmful, but enzymes are highly beneficial in a live res configuration.

h202 I thought was liquid oxygen and can be ran in almost anything too and has no negatives? thats just 29-32% hydrogen peroxide?
H2o2 is hydrogen peroxide. The concentrations you want to use are much higher volume than what you use to rinse your wounds with. Also, if you choose to use it, DO NOT let it touch your skin. Chemical burns are bad, mkay. The added oxygen is just an added benefit, H2o2 is an oxidizer, which compliments the functions of enzymes while enabling you to run a sterile res.

Running a live res is tricky for beginners because the environmental variables are difficult to control and without going scorched earth policy, it's easy to allow the likes of pythium to take hold.

pool shock im not sure why id want chlorine? I thought we evaporate chlorine by letting water sit out and or bubble for a day or so?
Think of it like swimming in a pool. They use healthy levels of chlorine to kill of pathogens while being safe enough to enjoy community activities in large volumes of water. Same concept. Only difference here is your plants roots will live in the pool. No need for concern, plants do not uptake chlorine so you will not end up smoking any more carcinogens than you are doing so already.

However, because chlorine is a volatile compound, it requires consistent and regular application. I recommend marking your res with gallon or three gallon marks so you can re-apply accordingly.


hydroguard is bacteria and also seems to not have too many negatives and helps in many ways?
Yes and no. My batch of hydroguard is expired per what @Aqua Man posted and that explains a hell of a lot of the struggles I've had over the past couple weeks. Too much of any bacteria will cause crazy pH swings, and will send you down a rabbit hole of a non-existent problem. Be mindful of your bacterial use.

All that being said, I'd recommend since you're a beginner hydro grower, go find some straight pool shock (no pH buffers or other shit in it) and run sterile. Put the enzymes on the shelf and come back to them later, once you know how to swim, pun intended.
 
User59204626117

User59204626117

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thanks for explaining it like that.

whats the difference between sterile and live? one is clearly better than the other.. and if I pick the lesser one It will alwaysssss bug me haha.
 
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tobh

tobh

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thanks for explaining it like that.

whats the difference between sterile and live? one is clearly better than the other.. and if I pick the lesser one It will alwaysssss bug me haha.
Alright, let's clear up an obvious misconception. There is no "better". The "better" part comes down to the grower, and what works for their situation.

Live res is where the grower inoculates their reservoir with beneficial bacterial cultures and enzymes as part of a preventative maintenance policy.

Sterile res is where the grower applies chemical solutions to eliminate any and all bacterial cultures as part of a preventative maintenance policy. Some explanation is needed on how this works. Chlorine works also as an oxidizer like H2o2, but a bit differently. Running H2o2 with enzymes is acceptable as H2o2 doesn't negatively impact the functions of enzymes, which are organic compounds, whereas chlorine does, and will nullify the positive effects of enzymes. I'm not an organic chemist and cannot elaborate on why this is the case, but it is "law".

The differences between the two are vast with the biggest is cost of operation. Sterile is bar none cheaper than live. Live requires a ton of additional equipment (chillers, pumps, additives, patience) vs sterile, where you can nearly disregard many of the variables that others consider to be of utmost importance.

A bottle of shock is like $7.

A cheap chiller? $200.
An additional water pump? $20 at minimum
Additives? Range in price, average $30 - $100 per gallon.
Patience? priceless.

In the words of one of the greats *cough* @Aqua Man *cough*, beginners should start sterile. Sterile eliminates 95% of your issues as H2o2 or Pool Shock will not throw your pH all over the place and will have minimal impact on EC (2ppm chlorine is not notable in 800ppm of solution). It's downright easier. Easy is the key to success when starting into hydro, and even moreso for new growers in general.
 
PK1

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tobh i wasn't trying to send mis information. my misunderstanding. However, i still don't get what the difference is cuz from what i read they both break down organic compounds
 
tobh

tobh

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tobh i wasn't trying to send mis information. my misunderstanding. However, i still don't get what the difference is cuz from what i read they both break down organic compounds
Hydroguard prevents other pathogens from taking hold. Think of it like a firewall, or a military force. It's a "good" bacteria vs a "bad" bacteria like pythium. The idea is to colonize your media (inert media like rockwool, hydroton, perlite, rocks, etc) with enough "good" bacteria and that culture will prevent any "bad" bacteria from taking hold.

However, enzymes are inorganic in the sense they don't technically live. They're not a bacteria or, really, any living thing. They're more along the lines of amino acids. They interact with the chemical processes that occur in organic matter decomposition and accelerate those processes. By accelerating those processes, there's a couple of consequences.

One is film build up in a res -- this is the core organic matter (glucose, harder compounds that take longer to break down).

The other is more bioavailability of chelated nutrients. Because the root's "dead skin" is removed as a process of enzymes, they are more receptive to what you make available to them.

That's where the idea the enzymes convert dead matter to something the plant can use comes from. It's not the dead matter being converted to nutrients -- it's the plant's roots took a shower and could more readily consume the nutritious sustenance provided to them.
 
User59204626117

User59204626117

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So sounds like sterile is what I want. Nothing living in my water. No enzymes, bacteria’s, fungis, algae’s, anything. No slime. No cloudy chunks. No drama and bs and headaches and stress. Sounds interesting!!

I need to make a decision today. Driving 2 hours to the city.

need to purchase:

ph pen
Storage solution
Temp gun
Pool shock
(Maybe silica of some sort. Power.si or something?)
 
User59204626117

User59204626117

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Hope this is the good stuff! Those hydro stores in the city are intense. Wow. They had everything. I could spend $1000 in there easily.

total was about 95$cad for the 4 bottles.
 
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User59204626117

User59204626117

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Ps. That bottle of ph down is serious stuff. Wow. That is one significantly heavy bottle. I’ve never felt a liquid so heavy before. And yet it sounds thin 🤯

I’ve had 1L bottles of concrete and mortar and grout that weighed less
 
User59204626117

User59204626117

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Also:

I’d say my ph is a tad high.

Ppm seems decent for this stage (-150ppm for my tap water)

temperature is a little high too. That’s very hard to keep low.
 
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tobh

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So, with the silica, you want to make sure you add it first, before anything else, let it mix 15-30min then pH down to 6.5. After, add your other additives, allowing each one to mix for 5-10min before continuing to add the next. Once all additives are added, pH to your target pH. Oh, and don't use silica as a pH up. It's not designed for that and will crash out if added after anything else.
 
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Badchoice

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I’ve never seen a ph down product that’s 0/55/0 that’s kind of crazy I think the old basic GH ph down that’s 0/0/0 might have been better. Cuz now your gonna get into advance feeding with n/p/k ratios like that
 
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tobh

tobh

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I’ve never seen a ph down product that’s 0/55/0 that’s kind of crazy I think the old basic GH ph down that’s 0/0/0 might have been better.
That's what I was thinking too. However, it'd work as a pH down at that level. OP just needs to account for the added P in their final solution as to not lock out other things with an overdose of P.
 
Badchoice

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That's what I was thinking too. However, it'd work as a pH down at that level. OP just needs to account for the added P in their final solution as to not lock out other things with an overdose of P.
Very true but man not to be mean thats a stretch on some new growers not saying @User59204626117 cant handle it but just hope he pay close attention now and you are 100% correct don’t use silica as a ph up that shit is strong usually. I’ll be fair the classic GH up/down might have been a better way to go
 
tobh

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Very true but man not to be mean thats a stretch on some new growers not saying @User59204626117 cant handle it but just hope he pay close attention now and you are 100% correct don’t use silica as a ph up that shit is strong usually. I’ll be fair the classic GH up/down might have been a better way to go
100% GH is the way to go. However, one can source sulfuric acid at auto part stores. Make sure to get stuff with no other additives (I don't believe they'd add any, the lead plates in batteries are pretty damn sensitive to most anything). Might be worth investing in some instead of using the purchased pH down... that stuff has more P than MOAB, which requires up to 50% less base nutes when used.
 
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PK1

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i gotta agree with @Badchoice lol, love you username dude. bad choice but i've seen you only give honest true feedbacks. lol!

why not just use sulfur acid/battery acid and call it a day? you'll have allot more stable ph and you don't have to worry about the amount of bottles you are dealing with.
 

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