[420ReBeLGrower]

Just started out my first ever grow recently and wanted to ask some Q's to the crowd and see what I can learn. (already been reading up a lot, and trying to teach myself as much as possible)

Setup
4x4x8 grow tent
900W LED light (both veg and bloom states available)
Fans and such

Info on the plants..

- Germed 4/3/20
- Transplanted to 3Gal buckets 5/3/20
- Using just MiracleGrow Organic soil and worm compost at start of planting
- Water is rain water + tap water but leftoutside for 24 hours to get all the chlorine out and then Ph'd to 6.5 or 7
- Don't really know what strains they are as these were basically seeds pulled from bought budz over time. Mostly Indica (and they sure smell like it), but could be a hybrid.
- 18/6 light cycle with only VEG state setting for LED
- 70 - 76F temps during day / 65-72 F at night
- 55 - 67% Humidity on average
- Watering about every 10 days (or when soil starts feeling a bit dry)
- Currently most have 7 nodes off the main stem and are about

Pics are of my better growers at ~60 days old

So . . here are my Q's...

1. These guys don't seem very big at all to me, compared to what I'm seeing elsewhere, for their age. How long should I keep them in VEG cycle?

2. I am going to be moving to a hydro setup in the future and have the General Hydroponics Flora 3-set of nutrients and was wondering if I could use any of it for helping these soil based plants grow stronger?

3. Since I FIMMED these at around node 6/7, Can/Should I TOP them at any point to start their real bushy growth spurt or should I just go ahead and start flowering?

Basically I'm worried about when to switch to 12/12 and if I should give any nutrients at all while they are doing their rapid final growth and blooming? Oh and should I use both the Bloom and VEG settings for the flowering/bloom stage? Or should I only use the Bloom setting?

 

[dire wolf]

Hey 420 , one answer to your questions , I wouldn't top or train anymore ., probably not at all
Second , they do look quite small , but I wouldn't let that discourage you, filming is a choice to encourage a bushy plant , I would let her grow more as is and don't mess with more training methods....
Do those containers have drain holes ?
Seems like your medium is staying wet for a long time
Too much worm castings will retain a lot of water , be careful....
Can you post a pic in white light , so we can see color of leaf and make a better diagnosis

 

[dire wolf]

Also , wouldn't be a bad idea to add 25 % perlite to your mix for better drainage
You can add more nutes if your plants need them , but it's hard to tell , have you measured the parts per million ppm of the nutrient you are mixing ?

In my experience " fimming" some plants can put a sudden halt to growth because of the slight shock and the time to regain momentum, I suspect that's what happened to your 60 day plant , give it some more veg time to fill out before flipping .....
Are they draining into a built in saucer on the bottom of the container , that's very bad, raise the plants off the floor ., make sure there is ample drain holes , and they are not sitting with " wet bottoms " that will also negatively affect normal growth

 

[420ReBeLGrower]

Hey 420 , one answer to your questions , I wouldn't top or train anymore ., probably not at all
Second , they do look quite small , but I wouldn't let that discourage you, filming is a choice to encourage a bushy plant , I would let her grow more as is and don't mess with more training methods....
Do those containers have drain holes ?
Seems like your medium is staying wet for a long time
Too much worm castings will retain a lot of water , be careful....
Can you post a pic in white light , so we can see color of leaf and make a better diagnosis

I have not topped yet. I have only FIMMED 1 time and that was at the 6th node (does it need to have little colas at the main stem branch off to be considered a node?). That FIMMING was done 9 days ago.
I was thinking of messing the LST and bending the main so that the other nodes/colas could get more light, but you think I should just let them grow straight up?
The containers do have drain holes, but I do not have anything else in the soil other than the MiracleGrow and maybe a tablespoon of worm castings. I usually will pour water for about 10 - 15 seconds on each plant from a small water bucket.
I will post a pic in white light today :-)

 

[420ReBeLGrower]

Also , wouldn't be a bad idea to add 25 % perlite to your mix for better drainage
You can add more nutes if your plants need them , but it's hard to tell , have you measured the parts per million ppm of the nutrient you are mixing ?

In my experience " fimming" some plants can put a sudden halt to growth because of the slight shock and the time to regain momentum, I suspect that's what happened to your 60 day plant , give it some more veg time to fill out before flipping .....
Are they draining into a built in saucer on the bottom of the container , that's very bad, raise the plants off the floor ., make sure there is ample drain holes , and they are not sitting with " wet bottoms " that will also negatively affect normal growth

So, should I think about adding Perlite now? I would think that would be rough on the plants at this stage in their life. I know the miracle grow soil has some in it, but i didn't add any extra.

I have never added any nutrients to my soil or water at this point. I have also not measured the PPM since I am not adding nutes. I HAVE the General Hydro Flora kit (3 pack) that I could add to the water, but I don't know which is the best one at this point?

There are 4 drains holes on the bottom of each bucket. When watering, I let them sit for about 30 - 60 minutes after watering so that everything can drain out and then put their bottom covers back on which covers upo the holes. (However, when I go to water them again I do not see any water in the covers when I take them off) Sounds like I need to leave the bottoms off throughout their life and just have them drip intp a tray? I don't have anything that I could raise the plants with that would allow them to drain further, but I'll see what I can do...

 

[420ReBeLGrower]

Side note . . . should I be cutting off any of the fan leaves or lower leaves at this point? I read that it will help direct growth toward areas that will get more light but my plants seem small and figure I should just leave everything to nature the first round?

 

[One drop]

The leaves of the plant is very important you could say it the engine room , you don’t want switch the engine off do you ? Regards Od .

 

[Brotofsky]

Side note . . . should I be cutting off any of the fan leaves or lower leaves at this point? I read that it will help direct growth toward areas that will get more light but my plants seem small and figure I should just leave everything to nature the first round?

Leave the fans alone!! Just tuck them down. Those are your solar energy gatherers!

 

[420ReBeLGrower]

@Brotofsky and @One drop Heard loud and clear!! I will not touch any of the leaves at all. I will be getting some pics of them in normal light soon.

 

[Dr.B]

@Brotofsky and @One drop Heard loud and clear!! I will not touch any of the leaves at all. I will be getting some pics of them in normal light soon.

Strategic defoliation can stimulate growth and increase airflow but! Your plants don't have the leaves to spare at the moment. Give them a week to recover between torture sessions.

See if you can't get that soil to dry out faster in between waterings. Try a fan directed at the surface of the pot, pearlite in the mix, (when you transplant before flower) less water at watering times.

I would advise against adding salt based fertilizer if you are unable to test for ppm.

 

[420ReBeLGrower]

It has been about a week since I FIMMED the plants. There are new growths already coming through the FIMMED area. But, I agree that my plants are very leafy so best to leave them be.

You say to transplant before flowering stage? What should I move to size wise? I thought I could keep them in these 3 gal?
If I do transplant before flowering, should I add in about 15-30% to the mix?

I have 2 oscillating fans blowing in the tent, but not directly at the soil. They're more for keeping the air moving and swaying the flowers to strengthen the stems.

 

[Dr.B]

It has been about a week since I FIMMED the plants. There are new growths already coming through the FIMMED area. But, I agree that my plants are very leafy so best to leave them be.

You say to transplant before flowering stage? What should I move to size wise? I thought I could keep them in these 3 gal?
If I do transplant before flowering, should I add in about 15-30% to the mix?

I have 2 oscillating fans blowing in the tent, but not directly at the soil. They're more for keeping the air moving and swaying the flowers to strengthen the stems.

3 gallon would be fine but seeing as your soil mix needs work... before flowering is the time to do it. Slightly bigger pot. Size isn't the issue, drainage is. 15% should be enough.
You have the fans... Your call where you direct them.

 

[dire wolf]

Hey 420
You seem to be doing almost everything right , all the suggestions I made were on mistakes I thought you were making , but it seems pretty clear that you are a thoughtful grower , I have a few suggestions, the only real concerns I have are your container and miracle grow potting soil
First , potting soil out of the bag without added perlite can be too heavy and retain too much water without the addition of perlite , obviously it wasn't the worm castings , which I figured was your problem , second even though you are conscious about the drain and emptying the plate underneath , you are in a way sealing the bottom of the pot and further causing a wet bottom
If your bottom 3 or 4 inches remain wet unknown to you that = disaster , especially in an organic potting mix

Yes , your pot size is fine for complete grow , I suggest or others suggested up potting so you could mix in root ball with more perlite / soil to better drain,that would be my only reason

You seem on target , and thoughtful , I have some other suggestions , that might not be convenient at this stage ......

 

[dire wolf]

Also, fimming should be enough to create busy growth , I wouldn't recommend topping and fimming and branch training etc , until you get the plant stable and growing more quickly ....

Also be careful with the fans , if they blow directly on the plants to the point where they are swaying or moving it will stress them out , I think you simply need to get that grow medium corrected before you add anymore stress to the slow growing plant

I know it sounds ballsy , but you can dump your plant out carefully on the floor , see how the root system looks , see if you have nice white growth or rot , shake off the miracle grow pot mix , and try to replace with a perlite fortified version or a better product like fox farm or coast of Maine or natural organically or any of the other potting mixes out there , and simple repot back into the 3 gal

 

[dire wolf]

It also seems weird that you say you fimmed 9 days ago , because if you fimmed 9 days ago , which I can see by the chopped leaves , and now your plant recovered and grew that much in 9 days , then she looks pretty aggressive and healthy to me now.....
So you may just have a late starter and no real issues at all.......

 

[dire wolf]

I would use both light settings
I would use 1/2 strength veg nute first week of flip
Then move to 1/2 or 1/4 strength flower nute for remainder
Get a ppm meter

If they start growing quicker and don't react to fimm in the way you want , and you are anxious to get into flower. , I would bend down 2 strongest branches , let veg for another two weeks , more or less then flower

Each staring reacts differently to training , some get super stressed from it some don't , but yours are short indica sand might be determined to grow one or two strong tops regardless of what you do , unless you do a Scrog style , but that's a different story

 

[420ReBeLGrower]

3 gallon would be fine but seeing as your soil mix needs work... before flowering is the time to do it. Slightly bigger pot. Size isn't the issue, drainage is. 15% should be enough.
You have the fans... Your call where you direct them.

I don't have any larger pots (was hoping these would be enough), but may have to just go buy some 5 gallon crappy plastic ones. I will for sure start to direct the fans a little more at the potting mix.

Hey 420
You seem to be doing almost everything right , all the suggestions I made were on mistakes I thought you were making , but it seems pretty clear that you are a thoughtful grower , I have a few suggestions, the only real concerns I have are your container and miracle grow potting soil
First , potting soil out of the bag without added perlite can be too heavy and retain too much water without the addition of perlite , obviously it wasn't the worm castings , which I figured was your problem , second even though you are conscious about the drain and emptying the plate underneath , you are in a way sealing the bottom of the pot and further causing a wet bottom
If your bottom 3 or 4 inches remain wet unknown to you that = disaster , especially in an organic potting mix

Yes , your pot size is fine for complete grow , I suggest or others suggested up potting so you could mix in root ball with more perlite / soil to better drain,that would be my only reason

You seem on target , and thoughtful , I have some other suggestions , that might not be convenient at this stage ......

This seems to be my biggest problem, the perlite. Multiple people saying it needs to be able to drain better. I may take you advice and just try gently pulling out the plant, gently tapping the soil to break it up and checks roots, and then re-pot with more perlite this time.

Also, fimming should be enough to create busy growth , I wouldn't recommend topping and fimming and branch training etc , until you get the plant stable and growing more quickly ....

Also be careful with the fans , if they blow directly on the plants to the point where they are swaying or moving it will stress them out , I think you simply need to get that grow medium corrected before you add anymore stress to the slow growing plant

I know it sounds ballsy , but you can dump your plant out carefully on the floor , see how the root system looks , see if you have nice white growth or rot , shake off the miracle grow pot mix , and try to replace with a perlite fortified version or a better product like fox farm or coast of Maine or natural organically or any of the other potting mixes out there , and simple repot back into the 3 gal

I have had the fans blowing over-head just enough to cause the leaves to sway in the breeze. I may end up pointing them at the soil instead for now until I re-pot these guys. I have been reading and watching for 'Wind burn' and such with the leaves but haven't noticed any so figured they were fine. The wind really looked like it was helping them strengthen the main stem.
What is the best method to do what you are saying with dumping the plant out? I don't want to hurt my first grow to bad, and would kick myself if I ended up damaging the roots/plant. Unfortunately, I only have this MiracleGrow stuff and since I'm moving to DWC and hydroton for all future batches I really don't want to purchase different soil.

It also seems weird that you say you fimmed 9 days ago , because if you fimmed 9 days ago , which I can see by the chopped leaves , and now your plant recovered and grew that much in 9 days , then she looks pretty aggressive and healthy to me now.....
So you may just have a late starter and no real issues at all.......

Oh please let it be true! :-) almost all of them are at about 13.5" right now from soil to top of main stem after about 70 days. I hope fixing the soil and draining better will really wake them up.

I would use both light settings
I would use 1/2 strength veg nute first week of flip
Then move to 1/2 or 1/4 strength flower nute for remainder
Get a ppm meter

If they start growing quicker and don't react to fimm in the way you want , and you are anxious to get into flower. , I would bend down 2 strongest branches , let veg for another two weeks , more or less then flower

Each staring reacts differently to training , some get super stressed from it some don't , but yours are short indica sand might be determined to grow one or two strong tops regardless of what you do , unless you do a Scrog style , but that's a different story

So, during VEG stage I should be using both the Bloom and Veg switches for my light?
Here is the link to the light I am currently using.

I have THIS NUTRTIENT KIT from General Hydro. Are you saying I should use 1/2 strength of their FloraGrow for the 1st week after flipping to flowering? And then 1/4 or 1/2 of their FloraBloom for the rest of the flowering stage?

Thank you everyone for all of you help!! I am nowhere near as freaked out now and feel much better about my plants.

 

[420ReBeLGrower]

Here are pics of them in normal light as well. I have noticed that some of the plants at the very top of the plant it seems like its fading. Almost like they are burnt. But, its less than a centimeter, literally just the tiniest piece of the tip on some of the leaves. That happened after my last watering. But the plants seem fine.

 

[420ReBeLGrower]

I was also hoping someone could clarify something for me . . .

I'm trying to determine where all the buds will be coming from on the plant. Reading says all with be off the main stem, where the nodes are but I'm not seeing anything on some of the nodes? (I know its not flowering stage yet, but just wondering what I should be looking at?)

Like here... I don't see ANYTHING that resembles colas or such at these nodes.

And, will these guys actually be producing buds as well, (as long as the stems can support it?)

Or am I basically not going to see anything until the first week of switching to flowering light cycle?

 

[dire wolf]

Hey , considering this is your first grow and you don't have years of experience , all of your questions are valid ....
Let me say again , except for the crazy 70 day time / plant size issue , you are doing fantastic
Guarantee that won't be an issue next grow
Not sure why it happened this time , but don't worry about it , weird shit happens to all of us , almost every grow , and I'm including the posts you see from the pros ..... All of us