First RDWC Grow - Taking the Deep Water Culture Plunge

[Aqua Man]

that's what this system does better than all the others. Massive roots that support whatever you want to do up top from bushes to trees. I sometimes get shocked back into reality when I see roots from a dirt grow - just nothing like these.

Haha right… there is just no comparison.

 

[Cashmeh]

Plants release h+ ions when they up take nitrogen in the form of ammonium. The opposite is true when they take nitrogen in the form of nitrate.

So thats why you see a ph drop when you have root rot. Its the decaying roots that produce ammonia/ammonium. The greater the amounts the bigger the drop. Bit as you gain more roots natural root shedding can aslo have an effect on this.

If it’s naturally caused you can fox it by increasing the buffering capacity. O2 and other factors can also play a role in this

StackPath

"Nitrate (NO3-) is the form of nitrogen that can cause the root zone pH to increase over time. When plants take up nutrients, they must maintain an electrochemical balance in their cells. Since nitrate is a negatively charged ion, plants exude a hydroxide ion (OH-) for each nitrate ion taken up by roots. By releasing a negative ion for every negative ion taken up, the plant remains electrochemically balanced (Fig. 2).

While nitrate can increase the substrate pH, it is dependent on crop growth. If plants are growing slowly (or not at all!), little to no nitrate is taken up. As a result, no hydroxide is released and the pH will not drift upwards. In order for the nitrate to influence root zone pH, plants must be actively growing and taking up nitrogen."

Im so confused. Im sure you are saying what their saying but i dont get it. So if my nitrite levels are 0, my plant is absorbing nitrate, thus releasing a negative ion which makes the ph rise?? So it pulls a positive and releases a negative, or vice versa, depending if the source was ammonia or nitrite.

So its not that my ppms of nitrate were too high, I just lacked the alkalinity to buffer it, so it crashes faster with higher nitrite uptake and lower alkalinity. My alkalinity ppms are always under 25 lol. . ok i get it. . if i add alkalinity, I can run higher nitrate ppms, and get faster growth without the ph crashes?

Now root rot makes it crash because its amonia and it releases positive ions and uptakes all the negative ones. . but does alkalinity stop that too?

So is this why alkalinity is key in keeping a res stable. . damn i need to get my ppms up lol

 

[Aqua Man]

StackPath

"Nitrate (NO3-) is the form of nitrogen that can cause the root zone pH to increase over time. When plants take up nutrients, they must maintain an electrochemical balance in their cells. Since nitrate is a negatively charged ion, plants exude a hydroxide ion (OH-) for each nitrate ion taken up by roots. By releasing a negative ion for every negative ion taken up, the plant remains electrochemically balanced (Fig. 2).

While nitrate can increase the substrate pH, it is dependent on crop growth. If plants are growing slowly (or not at all!), little to no nitrate is taken up. As a result, no hydroxide is released and the pH will not drift upwards. In order for the nitrate to influence root zone pH, plants must be actively growing and taking up nitrogen."

Im so confused. Im sure you are saying what their saying but i dont get it. So if my nitrite levels are 0, my plant is absorbing nitrate, thus releasing a negative ion which makes the ph rise?? So it pulls a positive and releases a negative, or vice versa, depending if the source was ammonia or nitrite.

So its not that my ppms of nitrate were too high, I just lacked the alkalinity to buffer it, so it crashes faster with higher nitrite uptake and lower alkalinity. My alkalinity ppms are always under 25 lol. . ok i get it. . if i add alkalinity, I can run higher nitrate ppms, and get faster growth without the ph crashes?

Now root rot makes it crash because its amonia and it releases positive ions and uptakes all the negative ones. . but does alkalinity stop that too?

So is this why alkalinity is key in keeping a res stable. . damn i need to get my ppms up lol

Doesnt atop it just lowers the impact.

Ph is a measurement of h+ ions

Im saying the sane thing as that article.

Its a lot more complex than aimply how many nitrates you have… but you want to stay away from ammonium/ammonia in hydro for this reason… and most usually lack the required bacteria to break it down into nitrate. Those species generally take about 4-6 weeks to occur naturally and like to have a media for a home (any biomedia will do) @Moe.Red is taking advantage if this in his systems as we speak.

You can buy an inoculant from the pet stores for fish tanks called rapid start. Come to think of it that would also be beneficial in treating root rot along with a source of bacillus amyloliquefaciens in live systems. Or if you have elevated ammonia/ammonium levels for any reason.

 

[Aqua Man]

Sorry its called quick start

 

[Cashmeh]

Doesnt atop it just lowers the impact.

Ph is a measurement of h+ ions

Im saying the sane thing as that article.

Its a lot more complex than aimply how many nitrates you have… but you want to stay away from ammonium/ammonia in hydro for this reason… and most usually lack the required bacteria to break it down into nitrate. Those species generally take about 4-6 weeks to occur naturally and like to have a media for a home (any biomedia will do) @Moe.Red is taking advantage if this in his systems as we speak.

You can buy an inoculant from the pet stores for fish tanks called rapid start. Come to think of it that would also be beneficial in treating root rot along with a source of bacillus amyloliquefaciens in live systems. Or if you have elevated ammonia/ammonium levels for any reason.

Im catching on slowly I think. So the next question is which is a better for the plant, releasing positive or negative ions? What are the differences between a system that uses ammonia for N vs feeding it Nitrate? Like an aquaponics system converts Ammonia vs a sterile system that run strait Nitrate? Is at all the same for the plant even it its releasing different ions for different processes? Or are the only differences noticed in the res only in regards to ph swings and alkalinity levels?

So if there is no root rot due to bbs, and the res tests 0 for nitrite, why add ammonia fixing bacteria? I mean in the fight against root rot hell yea. . but for me whom hasnt seen it in over a year, i shouldnt need those colonies your speaking of right? Do they survive off Ammonia, will they die off if none. . or might I have them and not know it? Like im live, 75f average water temps, white roots, 0 res changes over 2 months. .like I honestly think I need a microscope lol. I have no clue whats going on in my res. .but whatever it is. . i love it. Im just wondering if im missing something or if I sound like I comprehend it enough?

 

[Moe.Red]

Doesnt atop it just lowers the impact.

Ph is a measurement of h+ ions

Im saying the sane thing as that article.

Its a lot more complex than aimply how many nitrates you have… but you want to stay away from ammonium/ammonia in hydro for this reason… and most usually lack the required bacteria to break it down into nitrate. Those species generally take about 4-6 weeks to occur naturally and like to have a media for a home (any biomedia will do) @Moe.Red is taking advantage if this in his systems as we speak.

You can buy an inoculant from the pet stores for fish tanks called rapid start. Come to think of it that would also be beneficial in treating root rot along with a source of bacillus amyloliquefaciens in live systems. Or if you have elevated ammonia/ammonium levels for any reason.

Yup, what you want is Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter to do the typical nitrogen cycle you see in aquaria. But like Aqua says, you need about 45 days to develop a colony capable of neutralizing ammonia as fast as it is produced.

The other thing is now you need to have a constant source of ammonia or the colony will die.

 

[Moe.Red]

So if there is no root rot due to bbs, and the res tests 0 for nitrite, why add ammonia fixing bacteria? I mean in the fight against root rot hell yea. . but for me whom hasnt seen it in over a year, i shouldnt need those colonies your speaking of right? Do they survive off Ammonia, will they die off if none. . or might I have them and not know it? Like im live, 75f average water temps, white roots, 0 res changes over 2 months. .like I honestly think I need a microscope lol. I have no clue whats going on in my res. .but whatever it is. . i love it. Im just wondering if im missing something or if I sound like I comprehend it enough?

I think we posted at the same time. You would not need to add those bacteria without ammonia or nitrite present, they will do nothing but starve.

EDIT: just to be clear, these bacteria are everywhere and you would see a colony establish in time if ammonia is present, even if you don't add it. It will just take longer.

 

[Moe.Red]

I think a better quick fix for root rot rather than waiting for a new colony to develop is to use enzymes.

This is the first one I found on google, I have not used nor do I endorse this product, but there is a good explanation of how they work if you can sift thru the marketing-ese

What Does CANNAZYM Do, When To Use It & Does It Solve Root Rot

Read this detailed article to find out what does CANNAZYM do, when you should use it, how much to use, and how to use it against root rot.

www.hydrostork.com

 

[Aqua Man]

What @Moe.Red said. A tiny amount will remain and feed off the natural root shedding. 1ppm of ammonium makes about 4 ppm of nitrate. The process is very very fast from ammonia to nitrite to nitrate.

Honestly there is way to much to consider and do properly on this topic without a lot of knowledge.

 

[Aqua Man]

I think a better quick fix for root rot rather than waiting for a new colony to develop is to use enzymes.

That what the bacteria produce… its the enzymes that do the work.

That quick start is enough to fuel a full size colony very quickly.

I used to precolonize a filter and then drop it in a new tank and it’s basically instantly cycled. Back when iused to breed fish

 

[Moe.Red]

That what the bacteria produce… its the enzymes that do the work.

That quick start is enough to fuel a full size colony very quickly.

I used to precolonize a filter and then drop it in a new tank and it’s basically instantly cycled. Back when iused to breed fish

I bow to your experience. I haven't done fish in over a decade. They used to sell bottles at petsmart that never seemed to do anything, I'm sure it has come a long way since I used any of this.

 

[Aqua Man]

I bow to your experience. I haven't done fish in over a decade. They used to sell bottles at petsmart that never seemed to do anything, I'm sure it has come a long way since I used any of this.

Yeah back in the day they were garbage… so we used oreseed filters in an established tank first

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Fascinating conversation guys. As a sidenote, I have been using an enzymes product that was part of the Humboldt secret starter pack.I’m using 1 mL per gallon and as far as I can tell it’s been helping.

 

[Moe.Red]

Fascinating conversation guys. As a sidenote, I have been using an enzymes product that was part of the Humboldt secret starter pack.I’m using 1 mL per gallon and as far as I can tell it’s been helping.

I had a problem with root rot one time years ago, and I mixed up a batch of BB, mycos, and enzymes. Put it in a 5 gallon bucket then just set the net pot in it and swished it around. The roots came out almost glowing white. I think it was the enzymes that made such a drastic and instantaneous change. Now I just run a little bit in the system at all times, and I haven't gotten root rot in years (knock on wood)

 

[Aqua Man]

I had a problem with root rot one time years ago, and I mixed up a batch of BB, mycos, and enzymes. Put it in a 5 gallon bucket then just set the net pot in it and swished it around. The roots came out almost glowing white. I think it was the enzymes that made such a drastic and instantaneous change. Now I just run a little bit in the system at all times, and I haven't gotten root rot in years (knock on wood)

Your absolutely right… i prefer hygrozyme because of how aggressive it is but there are many on the market

 

[Moe.Red]

Your absolutely right… i prefer hygrozyme because of how aggressive it is but there are many on the market

Here's my lineup

That Hygrozyme is powerful stuff.

Edit: I'll bet there are folks that think we are the same person posting under alts lol. We've never talked about hygrozyme before, yet here we are both using it.

 

[Aqua Man]

Here's my lineup

View attachment 1272426

That Hygrozyme is powerful stuff.

Yup you almost dont need bennies running it. Id even go so far as to say likely wouldn’t need.

All these products are good. I also like raw bloom microbes and defgaurd is hydrogaurd but more concentrated and cheaper i think

 

[Cashmeh]

Here's my lineup

View attachment 1272426

That Hygrozyme is powerful stuff.

Edit: I'll bet there are folks that think we are the same person posting under alts lol. We've never talked about hygrozyme before, yet here we are both using it.

HAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAH Dude, not gonna lie, when aqua left, you ramped your helping game up. I thought for the longest you was his alt.
I will say this, if the admins on here are not using alts, they are missing out on crazy opportunities. I was in an online setting once where I caught all the admin running alts, it was the craziest thing. They litterally infiltrated my team, put members on it, lead us to their goals, against other teams that they were leading too. The dudes messed up with their chats and I caught them. They shut the site down and moved on, dunno what they are all up to now. Basically they dominated the market I was in by controling all the servers. I tried to compete with them by doing what they did, but my partner was actually one of them and I didnt know it. He stole all my ideas and then they implemented them. Was quite weird but what they did worked.

 

[Cashmeh]

Fascinating conversation guys. As a sidenote, I have been using an enzymes product that was part of the Humboldt secret starter pack.I’m using 1 mL per gallon and as far as I can tell it’s been helping.

You should look at my first post on here lol, almost 2 years ago I was a rookie. Now, I can somewhat manage to hold a convo with them. Do I understand what im talking about?? Prolly not. .but do they make me feel like I do, yes lol. .

 

[Moe.Red]

I can tell you 2 things for sure,

1 - Aqua man and Moe.Red are 2 completely different weed nerds.
2 - One username is enough for me, no alts here. It's like women, one is plenty to handle, why would I want 2?

I just think it is funny how 2 different dudes in different countries who never met each other before this forum could end up doing virtually the same stuff, grow styles, book lernin' you know. We were both doing our own thing before we met here, they just happened to be the same stuff.