Fishing for opinions on a foliar product

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Tnelz

Tnelz

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So in the past year i've gotten into foliar feeding. I only do it twice a week during veg. I tinkered mixing a little of this with a little of that for about the first six months until I found my current recipe . which is as follows: 2mls liquid karma sea plex and 1ml an revive and calimagic. That's per gallon. It works awesome. Awesome. Never well almost never have any defencies since I started and my transplants go off without a hitch or a wilted leaf. Also use it on clones both before roots and after. So my hydro store gave me 2 bottles of flowers kiss foliar by fox farms. Looking at what's in it and it looks like all or most of the bases are covered and it's on the cheap side. I think I'll continue to add seaplex with it for the kelp but if it's good stuff I can save some money. So after saying all of that I'm just looking for someone who has used it and if it's any good. Let me know. Thanks ahead of time!!! Keep it green!
 
thump easy

thump easy

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rock has a folar with lights on its good.. dutch master has one with light on liquid light i love it mix with saturator, house and garden has one it greens up you plant, those are the only ones i know of maxi crop foliar feed is great too.. with lights dim or off.
 
lino

lino

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The logic for the practice is based on scientific research from the 1950’s, which demonstrated that leaves can take up minerals through their stomata, and in some cases through their cuticles. I have not found much scientific research regarding cannabis and the effects of foliar feeding.

Before you think I'm here to talk down foliar feeding effectiveness keep in mind I foliar feed cannabis for many reason. Here is a list Ive gathered from experiments performed on many plant other than cannabis

Lets look at advertised claims for foliar feeding of shrubs and trees, that I had particular questions that are answered in bulleted lists below
Bullets 1 - 6 ( bullets are directly from marketing media ):
(1) What are the advantages of foliar feeding over soil application?
• Immediate results
• Prolong bloom
• Increase crop yields
• Increase storage life of food crops
• Boost growth during dry spells
• Increase cold and heat tolerance
• Increase pest and disease resistance
• Maximize plant health and quality
• Help the internal circulation of the plant
(2) When should one use foliar nutrients sprays?
• When the soil is too cold for conversion of nutrient elements into usable forms
• When it is at least 72°F
• Any time except when it is too hot or too cold
• Transplant time
• Bloom time
• When a quick growth response is desired
• After fruit set
• Every 2-3 weeks
• Any time of stress
• As long as the plant has leaves that aren’t dormant
• When the soil is deficient in nutrients
(3) What time of the day, and in what quantity, should you apply foliar fertilizers?
• Early morning
• Until it drips from the leaves
• There is no improper way
(4) How long will material last on the leaves?
• 24 hours
• 1-2 days
• Four weeks
(5) What nutrients are critical components of foliar feed fertilizers?
• Nitrogen
• Phosphorus
• Micronutrients
(6) Apart from commercial formulas, what should homemade mixtures contain?
• Seaweed
• Compost tea
• Natural apple cider vinegar
• Blackstrap molasses
• Fish emulsion
• Baking soda

This list from marketing media missed one of the most import reason to foliar feed most plants, especially cannabis. I apply Bacillus thuringiensis, a naturally occurring species of bacteria. I apply Bt for pest control and have effectively used this foliar application to stop the use of harsh pesticides and 0ils application to plants for most crops of cannabis and other plants also.
 
lino

lino

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The Reality
If these laundry lists look more like a multiple choice test rather than solid information, it’s not surprising. Foliar feeding is yet another agricultural practice best suited to intensive crop production under specific soil limitations rather than as a landscape management tool. Thus, advertisers take great liberties with the facts, often resulting in contradictory messages (note especially the recommended temperature conditions!).

Rather than individually refute the numerous errors in the claims, I’ll explain when foliar feeding might actually be beneficial. The original 1950’s research came from Michigan State University and was particularly useful inunderstanding how nutrients move within plant tissues. As explained by Dr. Tukey in his testimony to the Joint Committee on Atomic Energy, use of radiolabelled nutrients allowed his team to discover “…that a leaf is a very efficient organ of absorption. The amounts may at first seem relatively small, but to offset this handicap, the efficiency is high.” From this advertisers claim that foliar feeding is 8, 10 or 20 times more effective than soil application. This is not accurate for several reasons. Obviously, materials applied directly to a leaf are more likely to enter the leaf in large quantity than the same materials applied to the soil. Leaching, chemical reactions, microbial activity, etc. can decrease that actually reaches the roots and is taken up into the plant. But materials applied to the leaf do not necessarily travel throughout the entire plant as effectively as they do through root uptake. They often remain in the same or adjoining tissues but travel no further. This is especially true of those elements recognized as “immobile” within plant tissues (apart from root uptake and xylem transport). Research over many decades has explored the mineral uptake and transport of many species of fruit trees, conifers including pine and spruce species, and some hardwoods of ornamental or commercial value.
Results have been mixed in many cases, with some species responding well to treatment and others remaining unaffected. Generally, the results suggest that foliar application of particular nutrients can be useful in crop production situations where soil conditions limit nutrient availability. For instance, alkaline soils do not readily release many metallic nutrients, especially iron and manganese. Zinc, copper, magnesium, molybdenum, boron, and calcium are other micro-nutrients required in small quantities that have been applied to foliage in an effort to relieve deficiencies and combat fruit disorders. Fruit, as adjacent tissue, can benefit from foliar spray. But this is a localized application that does not affect the trunk or roots – and therefore is not a solution to soil imbalances. In fact, researchers consistently state that foliar treatments are a specialized, temporary solution to leaf and fruit deficiencies in tree fruit production but will not solve larger soil management issues.
On the other hand, macronutrients, such as nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium, are needed in larger quantities. While many of these are mobile in the plant, it is pointless to apply them to foliage as leaves cannot take up enough material to supply the entire plant’s demands. Furthermore, foliar application of high concentrations of such nutrients often results in leaf burn as water evaporates and the fertilizer salts remain behind. Substituting numerous, lower concentration applications would not be cost effective. Species differ widely in their ability to take up nutrients through their leaves. Differences in cuticle thickness, stomatal resistance, and other genetic factors will influence uptake, as will environmental conditions. Plants in a protected situation (like a greenhouse) have thinner and more porous cuticles than plants in the field and take up foliar sprays much more readily. Likewise, plants adapted to arid environments naturally have thicker, less penetrable cuticles than those from more moderate locations. I have found the cannabis cuticle a marvel to work with. Cannabis cuticle will very greatly from leaf to leaf depending on the applications of some harsh toxic chemical like that contained on Neem oil. Application of this type of chemical on cannabis will increase the cuticle thickness in what I call a (quick and thick cutical), hense leaf shine. Foliar feeding harsh sprays on cannabis fan leaves does not harm the smoke quality as long and those leaves are trimmed from the finished product.

Poor soil selection in terms of mineral nutrition will be a management problem for the lifetime of the plant – which may be pretty short. Choose cultivars of species that are more resistant to alkaline soils – they are able to acidify the root environment so that micro-nutrients are remobilized from
the soil and available for uptake. The existing research does not justify foliar fertilization of landscape plants as a general method of mineral nutrition. It can be useful for diagnosing deficiencies; for instance, spraying leaves with iron chelate can help determine if interveinal chlorosis is from iron eficiency. It would obviously have benefit for those landowners with landscape fruit trees that perpetually have flower or fruit disorders associated with micronutrient deficiencies. Applying fertilizers to leaves (or the soil) without regard to actual mineral needs wastes time and money, can injure plant roots and soil organisms, and contributes to the increasing problem of environmental pollution.

The Bottom Line
• Tree and shrub species differ dramatically in their ability to absorb foliar fertilizers.
• Cannabis leaf wax (cuticle) is very reactive to foliar sprays.
• Proper plant selection relative to soil type is crucial to appropriate mineral nutrition.
Foliar spraying is best accomplished on overcast, cool days to reduce leaf burn.
• In landscape plants, foliar spraying can test for nutrient deficiencies, but not solve them.
Micronutrients are the only minerals that are effectively applied through foliar application.
• Foliar application will not alleviate mineral deficiencies in roots or subsequent crown growth.
• Foliar spraying is only a temporary solution to the larger problem of soil nutrient availability.
• Minerals (especially micronutrients) applied in amounts that exceed a plant’s needs can injure or kill the plant and contribute to environmental pollution.
• Any benefit from foliar spraying of landscape trees and shrubs is minor considering the cost and labor required.
• Cannabis stomatal resistance is quick. In Colorado cannabis stoma's are usually closed tight during the Dry days. In the humid climate of Northern California the stomas will open/partial open more frequent. I have found a sudden increase in humidity and low intensity lighting will increase foliar application effectiveness.

And with this paper comes my cannabis conclusion on Foliar Feeding plants. Compost tea with Bt bacteria in balance and you'll experience dark green thick leaves and very healthy plants that will resist bugs.

NOTE: Whatever you sprayed on a cannabis plant will reside in cuticle (leaf wax) and will be absorbed in the top layers of leaf materiel that has been sprayed also. Try to keep chemicals off the bud material. The trick is to watch As your plant buds, it loosed it immunization to bugs, so you'll need to be in control with Prior Foliar food and Bt bacteria application to soil and leaves so your buds can finish without a massive Bad Bug invasion at the end toward harvest. If done correctly and perfected your bud can remain organic and taste better than most herb you smoke today.
Old research paper by Lino with lots of copy and paste from PHD professors research.

Now the real question begins, When should a farmer stop foliar feeding plants, ? I try to stop at a minimum of 4 weeks but 6 week if I feel brave.
 
Gamrstwin36

Gamrstwin36

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Hears one for you.... My buddy foliar feeds nutes with co2 !!!!!! Ya carbonated water Lolz and he loves it!!!!! The plant gets its dose of co2 at the same time ya crazy huh!!!

Whoa. Ive been told that would work. just gotta try it. Any pointers?
 
outwest

outwest

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Wow, the ignore feature makes this read like a normal thread. *HIGHLY* recommended.

Anyway, I use sea green as a foliar. Great all purpose 'green up your plants' supplement to have in the toolbox. There are a few others that are good for early flower as well. I love banana manna, and it is recommended as a foliar, but I only water it in.

outwest
 
HeadKracker

HeadKracker

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hers a pretty good article a read a lil while back

Sixty years ago, researchers discovered that it wasn't just roots that could absorb elemental plant nutrients. The findings sparked new testing, new practices and a new debate... and the conversation regarding the effectiveness and benefits of foliar feeding continues to this day.

So, here's the scene. It's the early 1950s and we are in the greenhouse laboratories at Michigan State University's Department of Horticulture. Enter Dr. H.B. Tukey, head of the department, and his colleague Dr. S.H. Wittwer. The lab is meticulously clean. The two men are yielding water misters containing solutions of the radioactive isotopes of known elemental nutrients, such as phosphorus and potassium. They carefully begin spraying the solutions onto the leaves and stems of some rather unsuspecting plants and then they pause. Breaking the silent anticipation, Dr. Tukey eventually steps forward. In his hand he holds a Geiger counter and he begins waving it slowly around the plants. The counter is making that static-like clicking noise that resembles fingernails tapping erratically on a counter top. A smile cautiously forms on his face as he realizes that the radioactive nutrients have been absorbed into the plants and are beginning to move around within. The men quickly start documenting their breakthrough, and history has been made.
Okay, so this might not be exactly how these events took place—and spraying radioactive material with a hand held mister is most likely not safe. However, this is where the widespread interest in foliar feeding began. When Dr. Tukey and his colleagues discovered that elemental plant nutrients could be absorbed through a different part of the plant, besides just the roots, they in turn sparked new testing, new practices and a new debate. Even now, 60 years later, the conversation continues on the effectiveness and benefits of foliar feeding.
The main point of absorption for elemental plant nutrients is through a plant's roots. But sometimes the nutrients can become locked up with other elements in the soil, rendering them unusable by the plants. There are many factors that can contribute to nutrients becoming immobile in the soil. If the fertilizer solution you use is imbalanced or if its pH is too high or too low, the nutrients might not be absorbed by the plant. Poorly managed soils, damaged root zones, excessive watering: all of these situations can lead to lowered rates of absorption of vital plant nutrients. When a nutrient doesn't seem to be working effectively through soil applications, using the foliar feeding method is a possible solution.
The leaves, and sometimes even the stems, of many plants are equipped with tiny, pore-like apparatuses called stomata. The word stomata stems from the Greek word stoma, meaning mouth. And that is essentially how they work. Regulated by task specific cells, appropriately referred to as guard cells, a plant's stomata will open and close at certain parts of the day. Stomata are essential for two main reasons. The first is to allow oxygen and water vapor to leave the plant (transpiration), which in turn cools the plant down and allows for more water and nutrients to flow from the roots to the leaf cells (translocation). The other is to provide a point of entry for carbon dioxide from the air to come into the leave and make photosynthesis possible. Stomata can also act as a passage way for getting liquid plant nutrients into a plant. But, as is true with many aspects of life, timing is everything.
The opening and closing of stomata is directly affected by certain environmental conditions. As far as I can tell this is not an exact science yet, but some basic principles seem to be regarded as true. Stomata are generally open during periods of high light intensity. A reason for this could be that the high level of light is causing a high level of photosynthesis, so the stomata are open to allow more carbon dioxide in. Stomata also open during times of high humidity, when water is plentiful and plants don't need to worry about conserving. However, stomata remain closed when conditions are exceedingly hot (above 80°F) or very dry. In these conditions a plant will keep its stomata closed in order to conserve any available water. If you plan on foliar feeding in the hot summer months, it is recommended to feed in the morning or early evening, as the sun is out and the weather is still relatively cool. Still, understanding when the window of opportunity is for open stomata to occur is only one part of the picture. The next part is figuring out how to get the nutrients in.
Successful foliar feeding is not as simple as just spraying the liquid on the leaves; it is a process that involves careful technique and a little bit of grace. The following is a small list of tips I've compiled to help you along the way:
• Avoid foliar feeding when temperatures are above 80°F. In the summer it's best to spray either in the morning or early evening, when temperatures are lower.
• If possible, foliar feed when the weather is humid.
• Check the pH of your nutrient solution before spraying. The ideal pH is right around 7.0, which is referred to as a neutral pH.
• Mix your solution at a more diluted rate than you would for root feeding. If the directions call for 1 oz. of fertilizer per gallon of water for regular feeding, use 1 tsp per gallon of water when foliar feeding. The smaller the particles are, the more likely they are to enter into the stomata.
• When spraying the solution, use a sprayer that creates the finest mist possible. This will ensure a better and more even spread of the solution on the leaf.
• Use a wetting agent or surfactant. Water has a high surface tension rate, which causes it to bead up when sprayed. Adding a wetting agent will lower the water's surface tension, allowing it to thin and spread out.
• On most plants the stomata are on the underside of a leaf, but at times they reside on the top. So, just in case, spray both the tops and bottoms of the leaf until they are completely covered and excess solution runs off.

Possibilities and realities
A trend that has been occurring in the liquid fertilizer industry for some time now is to market foliar feeding as a simple fix for what could be a major problem. Many companies include language like "maximizes plant health" or "increases yields" in there literature regarding foliar feeding. I remember reading an advertisement that said, in so many words, that foliar feeding is effectively the best way to battle bad soils. At that point I took a step back and thought to myself, "Is it really?" My feeling is that bad soils need to be carefully amended in order to obtain maximum plant growth. However, it is true that foliar feeding can achieve much higher nutrient absorption percentages than root feeding. But it is also true that nutrients absorbed through the stomata do not travel throughout the plant as extensively as nutrients absorbed through the roots do. Also, it is impossible to get significantly large amounts of nutrients through the stomata. Essential elements such as nitrogen and phosphorus are needed by plants in high quantities, levels that are only achievable through root entry. Minor elements, such as iron and magnesium, are needed in smaller amounts that can be obtained through foliar feeding. In the case of iron, when your plant shows signs of iron deficiency, cut a leaf of the plant and dip half of it in the nutrient solution you plan on using. If, after a few hours, the symptoms begin to subside, go ahead and use the solution on the whole plant. Another element that can become immobile in the soil and can be of benefit in foliar feeding is calcium. Using calcium in a foliar treatment can help battle blossom end rot in tomatoes and peppers.
So, foliar feeding can effective as a way to supply a plant with micronutrients and as a short term solution to many different nutrient deficiencies. However, if you are experiencing the same nutrient deficiencies on a consistent basis, foliar feeding might not be the answer. Foliar feeding is usually more of a temporary fix instead of a solution to a problem; a fix that can be labor intensive and, at times, can become rather expensive, especially when used on a large scale. I've always believed that healthy plants come from healthy soils. Properly amending the soil in your garden should be your first step. Perhaps get your soil tested to see what it is lacking or what there might be too much of. If minor nutrient issues arise along the way or if you just want to give your plants a little boost, foliar feeding (when done correctly) can be an effective addition to your gardening repertoire.
 
Gamrstwin36

Gamrstwin36

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Wow, the ignore feature makes this read like a normal thread. *HIGHLY* recommended.

Anyway, I use sea green as a foliar. Great all purpose 'green up your plants' supplement to have in the toolbox. There are a few others that are good for early flower as well. I love banana manna, and it is recommended as a foliar, but I only water it in.

outwest


How You like the sea green? Was thinking of combining heavy 16 foilar with sea green. Have you used sea green hydro?
 
lino

lino

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Hears one for you.... My buddy foliar feeds nutes with co2 !!!!!! Ya carbonated water Lolz and he loves it!!!!! The plant gets its dose of co2 at the same time ya crazy huh!!!
I have experimented with water sample from many springs with good success. Natural springs have enormous amounts of nutrients. CO2 direct to grow mediums with roots has helped to control many soil insects also. I got a pic somewhere on my hard drive that show how to make a CO2 enrichment for water. A little ghetto grow set up and i cant find it... If I run into the pic i'll post it. There are some artisan wells between Alamosa and Walsneburg that will harm and other springs that will help plants with amazing results.... Some of those springs have to much sulpher. Aslo keep in mind that in (especially soil) that the root areas have Nitrate - CO2 fixation going on down there so it stand to reason that something good might happen with this science.

Test on sample leaves: Foliar feed Arkansas valley Warm Water water srings, Stops Bugs!. I'm have 110 gallons of the warm artisan springs water. Amazing stuff for Foliar. On the banks of the warm water springs is Green Sand. This green sand stop root bugs. All I know is it works.

All this Foliar feeding talk and no one has addressed the effectiveness of GMO with foliar sprays. To me the use of GMO chemicals are the most effective use of foliar sprays as far as cannabis goes and has the biggest impacts on plants . There are many types of GMO chemical sprays currently used on cannabis. I'm not going to address them in detail cause I feel it causes more harm than good when performed outside of labs. Hormone inhibitor and accelerators are also very good when used as foliar applications but again, this will do more harm than good without the right dosage and knowledge.
 
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Tnelz

Tnelz

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Just want to say that this thread is exactly why I joined the farm. You guys and gals kick ass. No forum produces so much impactful information. I am a better grower because of all of u. Seriously. This was started over sample i got from my hydro store. And look what it's turned into. Luv this place!!
 
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