Forest Soil...ya Ever Use It?

[Seamaiden]

Im going tommorow to collect forest soil ive been busy but I got an idea from the link shem posted, im gonna cook some rice as a substrate/carbohydrate source put in a Tupperware, cover it with a plastic film with holes, throw the forest soil on top, put the lid on with holes and throw it in a box with a heating pad and wait for the mycylium to build up and then brew it :cool:

You're on the right track as far as I'm familiar with this method of culturing endogenous microorganisms. IIRC you're supposed to use a cedar box, but I bet it's mostly to do with moisture regulation.

Are you doing any other kinds of fermentation? Have you done, for example, fermented plant teas or juices as a fertilizing source? If not, give it a thought and for the love of God, DON'T stay married to the same-old same-old "Oh, you've gotta use comfrey, you've gotta use nettle, horsetail, etc!" Because the fact of the matter is this--if you're like me, these plants don't grow well in your area. That means you've either got to culture them (what? All that water? Not on my watch!) or buy them (again, huh? What's the point then?). What I do is use what's actively growing around me, paying attention to parts. My favorite example, and I swear to God I got this idea from @Bulldog11 was when I used spent Camellia blossoms to get a difficult and expensive (and now dead) rhododendron to bloom. Drought took it out!

Why not just buy some from Home Depot? Or is that a no no

He's trying to culture what is known as EM-1, or endogenous (native) microorganisms. You can't get that from a bag, you *have* to use your native, or endogenous soils. You can buy EM-1, but you're getting somebody else's endogenous microorganisms. Make sense?

Here's that soil survey browser linkage: http://casoilresource.lawr.ucdavis.edu/gmap/

 

[Seamaiden]

@Newenglander they don't seem to have a key for that soil survey map. Do you know what the different initials or acronyms stand for, or where we can find that information?

 

[Newenglander]

Yes go too menu, use the zoom into function to find your location, use the mouse too click on the location. On left hand side will pop up a side bar menu, then click on map unit composition. Then click on the actual type of soil. This will show the typical composition of that soil region. Including taxonomy, erodibility, hydraulic ratings, ph, SAR, linear xtensibility percent. They also include block diagram models.

 

[LucifDERRR]

You're on the right track as far as I'm familiar with this method of culturing endogenous microorganisms. IIRC you're supposed to use a cedar box, but I bet it's mostly to do with moisture regulation.

Are you doing any other kinds of fermentation? Have you done, for example, fermented plant teas or juices as a fertilizing source? If not, give it a thought and for the love of God, DON'T stay married to the same-old same-old "Oh, you've gotta use comfrey, you've gotta use nettle, horsetail, etc!" Because the fact of the matter is this--if you're like me, these plants don't grow well in your area. That means you've either got to culture them (what? All that water? Not on my watch!) or buy them (again, huh? What's the point then?). What I do is use what's actively growing around me, paying attention to parts. My favorite example, and I swear to God I got this idea from @Bulldog11 was when I used spent Camellia blossoms to get a difficult and expensive (and now dead) rhododendron to bloom. Drought took it out!

He's trying to culture what is known as EM-1, or endogenous (native) microorganisms. You can't get that from a bag, you *have* to use your native, or endogenous soils. You can buy EM-1, but you're getting somebody else's endogenous microorganisms. Make sense?

Here's that soil survey browser linkage: http://casoilresource.lawr.ucdavis.edu/gmap/

I know i read it that a wooden box is best maybe some certain fungi grow better/faster because of the cedar or something? Just my theory haha. No I haven't done any fermented plant teas only because I need to read up on what plant or leaves would be the most beneficial and which could be harmful (im sure there stuff out that could be harmful right?) Unless you dont mind sharing what your favorite stuff to ferment is or recipes :)

 

[LucifDERRR]

I know i read it that a wooden box is best maybe some certain fungi grow better/faster because of the cedar or something? Just my theory haha. No I haven't done any fermented plant teas only because I need to read up on what plant or leaves would be the most beneficial and which could be harmful (im sure there stuff out that could be harmful right?) Unless you dont mind sharing what your favorite stuff to ferment is or recipes :)

I read a thread on here where someone threw a bunch of seeds into a Tupperware and had a bit of water if im not mistaken and made em germinate and blended them into a roost boosting juice. Im not sure in you were floating around that thread @Seamaiden but I thought it was pretty genius !

 

[Seamaiden]

Yes go too menu, use the zoom into function to find your location, use the mouse too click on the location. On left hand side will pop up a side bar menu, then click on map unit composition. Then click on the actual type of soil. This will show the typical composition of that soil region. Including taxonomy, erodibility, hydraulic ratings, ph, SAR, linear xtensibility percent. They also include block diagram models.

Hrm, I'm not getting the map unit composition. I wonder if it could be my browser because I'm only getting a limited interface. Thank you though, I'm gonna try it using Firefox.

I know i read it that a wooden box is best maybe some certain fungi grow better/faster because of the cedar or something? Just my theory haha. No I haven't done any fermented plant teas only because I need to read up on what plant or leaves would be the most beneficial and which could be harmful (im sure there stuff out that could be harmful right?) Unless you dont mind sharing what your favorite stuff to ferment is or recipes :)

No, you don't need to read up on which particular plants are best, not really. Just be mindful of parts. For example, growing tips are translocating N and probably have a higher amount of certain growth hormones. Flowers will have a bit more P and K, and again, those associated hormones.

I use what's actively growing around me. Why? Because it's growing without my intervention and I'm not spending time, energy and my precious water trying to grow a plant to grow a plant (see how ridiculous that sounds?). If it's already growing, it's in my sites. So for example woolly mullein grows very well in certain areas where I am whereas comfrey requires HUGE amounts of water. Woolly mullein is a biennial plant and so I know that certain things are happening when it's actually in a flowering mode vs vegetative growth mode. I just harvest what I want (leaves, especially new growth for my vegging plants, flower spikes for flowering), chop it up really well and stick it in a bucket, then cover with water and let it set for a week or so. That water is then used to feed my plants. If you want it to go faster, add sugars, that'll spur more fermentation.

Of course, if you prefer to focus on what plants are 'best' that's your prerogative, but it is absolutely *not* necessary.

 

[Seamaiden]

I read a thread on here where someone threw a bunch of seeds into a Tupperware and had a bit of water if im not mistaken and made em germinate and blended them into a roost boosting juice. Im not sure in you were floating around that thread @Seamaiden but I thought it was pretty genius !

Sprouted seed tea, I'm familiar with it. It's also actually healthy for you to eat, many people sprout their seeds, lentils for example, then add 2% brine and lacto-ferment them for further health benefits, so they're good for people, too.

I started using malted barley extract YEARS ago. I was simply not wanting to waste my husband's leftover malted barley extract from his homebrewing, so I used it for making teas and feeding and such. Well, I got some pretty nice results, even though I had no idea what I was doing or why I got those results. I relayed that information to some people, a couple of cup winners smoked my smoke and really liked it, so I told some more, etc.

Malted barley is barley that's been sprouted, then roasted. When you sprout it, it's generating lots and lots of sugars along with releasing a whole bunch of growth compounds and hormones and the like. This happens with all seeds, but barley is the one that seems to really pack a (sugar) punch. Barley is the most popular fodder for farmers doing fresh sprouted fodder because it seems to bring about best performance in their animals as well (I'm talking everything from laying hens to dairy cattle to meat animals).

So, yeah. You can absolutely harness the power of other plants very easily, and you don't have to stay married to any one particular plant. Except Mary. You have to stay married to Mary.

 

[LucifDERRR]

Sprouted seed tea, I'm familiar with it. It's also actually healthy for you to eat, many people sprout their seeds, lentils for example, then add 2% brine and lacto-ferment them for further health benefits, so they're good for people, too.

I started using malted barley extract YEARS ago. I was simply not wanting to waste my husband's leftover malted barley extract from his homebrewing, so I used it for making teas and feeding and such. Well, I got some pretty nice results, even though I had no idea what I was doing or why I got those results. I relayed that information to some people, a couple of cup winners smoked my smoke and really liked it, so I told some more, etc.

Malted barley is barley that's been sprouted, then roasted. When you sprout it, it's generating lots and lots of sugars along with releasing a whole bunch of growth compounds and hormones and the like. This happens with all seeds, but barley is the one that seems to really pack a (sugar) punch. Barley is the most popular fodder for farmers doing fresh sprouted fodder because it seems to bring about best performance in their animals as well (I'm talking everything from laying hens to dairy cattle to meat animals).

So, yeah. You can absolutely harness the power of other plants very easily, and you don't have to stay married to any one particular plant. Except Mary. You have to stay married to Mary.

Hrm, I'm not getting the map unit composition. I wonder if it could be my browser because I'm only getting a limited interface. Thank you though, I'm gonna try it using Firefox.

No, you don't need to read up on which particular plants are best, not really. Just be mindful of parts. For example, growing tips are translocating N and probably have a higher amount of certain growth hormones. Flowers will have a bit more P and K, and again, those associated hormones.

I use what's actively growing around me. Why? Because it's growing without my intervention and I'm not spending time, energy and my precious water trying to grow a plant to grow a plant (see how ridiculous that sounds?). If it's already growing, it's in my sites. So for example woolly mullein grows very well in certain areas where I am whereas comfrey requires HUGE amounts of water. Woolly mullein is a biennial plant and so I know that certain things are happening when it's actually in a flowering mode vs vegetative growth mode. I just harvest what I want (leaves, especially new growth for my vegging plants, flower spikes for flowering), chop it up really well and stick it in a bucket, then cover with water and let it set for a week or so. That water is then used to feed my plants. If you want it to go faster, add sugars, that'll spur more fermentation.

Of course, if you prefer to focus on what plants are 'best' that's your prerogative, but it is absolutely *not* necessary.

Can you use an actual flower? Or would you recommend another part of a flowering/fruiting plant? Googling stuff just became more fun im searching like crazy.

 

[Reeferkief]

Taking advantage of indigenous microorganisms is ideal in my opinion, these are the guys who have adapted and stood the test of time in your local setting/environment and I HIGHLY recommend using if growing outdoors! When culturing them you must be precise specially in urban settings, it's amazing how much we affect the environment and how you can really see it when culturing indigenous microbes in bad areas. I would highly recommend sourcing from multiple different locations and mixing for a more diverse array of microbes towards the end of processes. If you aren't familiar with some of the natural farming methodology or nomenclature I highly recommend Cho's Global Natural Farming book. I can give you more recommendations on this type of stuff if interested let me know!

Above it was stated EM-1 is trying to be cultured here on rice, as far as I know and have read, the Rice Culturing is referred to as Indigenous Microorganisms (IMO) or Beneficial Microorganisms (BIM) harvesting or culturing and ranging from IMO/BIM 1-5.

EM-1 is similar in ways but is LAB and Molasses, EM also ranges 1-5 I believe, higher the number = more diverse effective microbes.

I personally don't find actively aerated compost tea (AACT) necessary unless you are unable to maintain a consistent healthy soil food web but I do find myself using a tea occasionally, for example if I mix new soil or make new garden beds. When I use or recommend to others AACT, I would always follow the information available on microbeorganics website (I don't make tea's often because I don't know what I'm making, fear of the unknowing...Hence no scope currently).

Look for biodynamic accumulators on google find what's local to you! I personally like to grow my own biodynamic accumulators, Dandelion, Nettle, Comfrey, Mint, Rosemary, Sage Brush, Alfalfa Etc.

If you are into reading pick up some permaculture books and possibly natural farming books.

 

[LucifDERRR]

Anynody just use fermented whole bananas as a supplement for ya ladies? I think its the only fruit I have laying around for the moment

 

[Reeferkief]

I have used papaya, banana, guava, cannabis, mango and a few others.

https://ilcasia.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/chos-global-natural-farming-sarra.pdf

This might help guide you with the ferments, good luck!

RK

 

[shemshemet]

@LucifDERRR

Only problem with bananas is pesticide residue. Something about something about lots of chemicals on bananas.

 

[Reeferkief]

Very well said Shem this is true, but from my experience when producing a FFJ I usually cut up the actual banana, and discard the peel in bokashi composting system or vermicompost. Doing so should kind of side step the chances of spiking your concoction with the commercial pest management products used in the banana industry. I don't know much about penetration/absorbtion rates when talking about the outside being sprayed, but I assume the inside should be lacking concentrated material from the chemical sprays and such.

 

[Seamaiden]

Can you use an actual flower? Or would you recommend another part of a flowering/fruiting plant? Googling stuff just became more fun im searching like crazy.

Yes, an actual flower. :)

Anynody just use fermented whole bananas as a supplement for ya ladies? I think its the only fruit I have laying around for the moment

My wild fermentation group goes NUTS for fermented bananas. But to eat themselves. Very few of them are fermenting to feed plants, but maybe more are now that I've been talking about it so much.

 

[LucifDERRR]

No way thats nuts I did a bit of research and got the same results, some said bananas alone weren't good and some said it was but I didn't know it would create a type of pesticide. @shemshemet.

I also saw that recipe also. Banana, papaya, guava and wanted to try it ou but the only fruit I have right now is bananas haha.

Awesome, so helpful! @Seamaiden Is it weird that all these questions, reading and shared info made me wanna take botany classes o.0

 

[shemshemet]

@LucifDERRR

Fermenting bananas doesn't create pesticides. The production of bananas requires high amounts of pesticides.

http://www.ewg.org/enviroblog/2014/04/bananas

Read that article. It's more informative than the information I am giving. It goes into monoculture and the susceptibility of diseases due to most bananas being a single clone.

AKA all the banana producers in the world are growing cavendish bananas. It's as if every grower in the world was growing a cut of GG4...

 

[CanadaSeeds]

I found some bio-char in the forest once, pretty awesome!

 

[LucifDERRR]

Morning yall so I stop havent been able to make my way my local forest...ya know, life...but it is on top of my list because I wanna see different results and experiment with it a bit. Anyways on my way to the store I noticed a bush with flowers and there was a few different ones too but since I kinda rushed I was only able to snip these off. I wanted to see if these were good for fermenting or if it would be better to have a mix of different flowers or just not use the ones I currently snipped off. Thanks guys hope yall are having a good today, its chilly down here in socal

 

[Seamaiden]

Ok, now chop 'em up and get them covered with water. :)

 

[LucifDERRR]

Soaking as we speak! @Seamaiden should I remove the leaves and only leave the flowers soaking? I also removed most of the stem, and added a bit of molasses