Foxtailing at day 28 bloom ? Opinions ?

[Mrb53]

Start to take this apart piece by piece. You commented that NOT ALL plants are doing this. Well, if they are not in different areas (tents), and are NOT getting different formula to eat (do you feed each plant a separate formula or mix once, feed all)...If there is NO dis-similar issues here than it is the strain. Many sativa get larfy / scraggly.....sometimes from the seeds (genus/strain), sometimes from the environment (a stress issue during the switch from veg to flower). Plants are children of their parents. Even seeds from the same plant have different genetic codes and you never know. Only clones are exact matches. Then it is all environmental / nutritional. GOTTA WATCH THE HIGH N AFTER 3RD OR 4TH WK OF FLOWER.
Coco - flush, it is an easy thing to do and start feeding properly. In a week or 2 you should see thickening but she will continue to stack like this for a while
I grow Acapulco Gold outdoors and live in the desert. The summer heat here destroys most plants. We averaged over 2 months of +115°F and +105f for almost 4 months. I love my AG and movend one indoors. She was suffering heat stress but she started to look exactly like your issue. This happpens to me every summer (gonna give up summer growing outdoors and indoors is too expensive for A/C so no more summer growing). POTENCY does not change...sometimes it gets even better as the hormonal action rushes in to save the flower.

 

[Veteran]

Start to take this apart piece by piece. You commented that NOT ALL plants are doing this. Well, if they are not in different areas (tents), and are NOT getting different formula to eat (do you feed each plant a separate formula or mix once, feed all)...If there is NO dis-similar issues here than it is the strain. Many sativa get larfy / scraggly.....sometimes from the seeds (genus/strain), sometimes from the environment (a stress issue during the switch from veg to flower). Plants are children of their parents. Even seeds from the same plant have different genetic codes and you never know. Only clones are exact matches. Then it is all environmental / nutritional. GOTTA WATCH THE HIGH N AFTER 3RD OR 4TH WK OF FLOWER.
Coco - flush, it is an easy thing to do and start feeding properly. In a week or 2 you should see thickening but she will continue to stack like this for a while
I grow Acapulco Gold outdoors and live in the desert. The summer heat here destroys most plants. We averaged over 2 months of +115°F and +105f for almost 4 months. I love my AG and movend one indoors. She was suffering heat stress but she started to look exactly like your issue. This happpens to me every summer (gonna give up summer growing outdoors and indoors is too expensive for A/C so no more summer growing). POTENCY does not change...sometimes it gets even better as the hormonal action rushes in to save the flowe

Start to take this apart piece by piece. You commented that NOT ALL plants are doing this. Well, if they are not in different areas (tents), and are NOT getting different formula to eat (do you feed each plant a separate formula or mix once, feed all)...If there is NO dis-similar issues here than it is the strain. Many sativa get larfy / scraggly.....sometimes from the seeds (genus/strain), sometimes from the environment (a stress issue during the switch from veg to flower). Plants are children of their parents. Even seeds from the same plant have different genetic codes and you never know. Only clones are exact matches. Then it is all environmental / nutritional. GOTTA WATCH THE HIGH N AFTER 3RD OR 4TH WK OF FLOWER.
Coco - flush, it is an easy thing to do and start feeding properly. In a week or 2 you should see thickening but she will continue to stack like this for a while
I grow Acapulco Gold outdoors and live in the desert. The summer heat here destroys most plants. We averaged over 2 months of +115°F and +105f for almost 4 months. I love my AG and movend one indoors. She was suffering heat stress but she started to look exactly like your issue. This happpens to me every summer (gonna give up summer growing outdoors and indoors is too expensive for A/C so no more summer growing). POTENCY does not change...sometimes it gets even better as the hormonal action rushes in to save the flower.

Well after taking a good look at it most have this issue, i also have another strain in there just 1 plant out of total 10 it has smaller buds and no foxtail. So the other 9 same strain are more sensitive.

 

[Veteran]

I use the Grow formula 3-2-4 or If I build my own a 3-1-5 all thru veg(@aprox 300-1000ppm pending variety cause Indicas will eat 2-3x as much as Sativas...my pH range in veg is pH5.8-6.2 ) and into wks 1-3 of Bloom, but I do use a BudSet pre flower booster in Open Sesame(5-45-19 or in micro dose look at it as a .5-4-2 )
After flip they still get the same Grow base and at 1 wk in the Indicas get another micro dose of OSesame...and at 2wks in the Sativas get a 2nd dose...
Now at this point theres 2 major differences as we hit Budset and into full bloom....
1 - is in wk 3 a Indica will be in Full Bloom and I switch to a 1-5-6 Bloom formula for the next 2-3wks...Cause Indicas will demand a bit of N longer into Bloom cause they need it...Then at wk 4-5 I switch to a 0-6-6 to finish and ripen now at 7wks and flush for a wk pull at aprox 8wks.....
2 - is in wk3 a Sativa will only need 1wk of the 1-5-6 formula cause it will retain the N much longer and use it much slower....So at wk4 I switch to the 0-6-6 which a Sativa will feed on for 3-4wks or more pending type...A Sativa also flowers and matures slower so it will only start to Ripen at 7-8wks and finish at 10-12wks....
Theres only a slight change in when to apply the formulas based on the variety...And this is always dictated by the Varieties....
Mixed lines are between those #'s but the key to it all is.....Knowing the Varieties that are being run....
Based on that info you would have a idea of whether to expect a Indica or Sativa or Mixed and just follow the Plants form from there....
Hope theres something useful in that...But that covers my approach in a big way....power to it
FOE20

When you feed 1-5-6 or 0-6-6 how much calcium is in the nutes?
I ask this because i thought calcium goes toghether with N and since its so low dosed will it not cause calcium deficiency?

 

[Mrb53]

When you feed 1-5-6 or 0-6-6 how much calcium is in the nutes?
I ask this because i thought calcium goes toghether with N and since its so low dosed will it not cause calcium deficiency?

Nutes MUST STATE they have calcium...NPK is the foundation for nutrients, the rest are mobile nutes / amendments
Calcium and Phos can affect the plants ability to absorb N as can Mag....
When growing in neutral substrates (not soil, nutes added), we usually start with
coco or peat, perlite and or vermiculite 25%...DOLOMITE LIME (preferred) and or CAL/MAG..., buffer the pH (some cooa MUST BE WASHED with pH 5 to get it to 5.8-6.4 as a base) gotta get the calcium and mag in the soil. Mag can be added in a foliar and is absorbed within a day or 2 where in the substrate it takes a wee to 10 days to be available to the plant. Best bet is use Epson salts...1 tsp per gal water (almost 4 L).

 

[Veteran]

Nutes MUST STATE they have calcium...NPK is the foundation for nutrients, the rest are mobile nutes / amendments
Calcium and Phos can affect the plants ability to absorb N as can Mag....
When growing in neutral substrates (not soil, nutes added), we usually start with
coco or peat, perlite and or vermiculite 25%...DOLOMITE LIME (preferred) and or CAL/MAG..., buffer the pH (some cooa MUST BE WASHED with pH 5 to get it to 5.8-6.4 as a base) gotta get the calcium and mag in the soil. Mag can be added in a foliar and is absorbed within a day or 2 where in the substrate it takes a wee to 10 days to be available to the plant. Best bet is use Epson salts...1 tsp per gal water (almost 4 L).

What about the calcium? When feeding 0-6-6 . Where is the calcium ? Or is calcium not needed mid to late flower?

 

[Mrb53]

What about the calcium? When feeding 0-6-6 . Where is the calcium ? Or is calcium not needed mid to late flower?

calcium is ALWAYS NEEDED throughout the grow and uless your nute specifically state there is Calcium in them, there are none. standard nutes and most dry/wet are just NPK...no cal..just Nitrogen, Phos, Potass...don't mis them up with mobile nutrients, amendments..they are separate and distinct

 

[Veteran]

Thanks for taking the time to detail that. Yeah definitely useful and appreciate it. I mostly run indica leaners as I'm pretty height limited indoors here.

Always nice to exchange other growers perspectives, opinions and knowledge especially very accomplished ones.

Will a 1-5-6 or 0-6-6 ratio not cause calcium deficiency? Is there any calcium in there?

 

[Mrb53]

Will a 1-5-6 or 0-6-6 ratio not cause calcium deficiency? Is there any calcium in there?

NO CALCIUM ..these 3 numbers represent
1 part Nitrogen
5 parts Phosphorous
6 parts Potassium
no calcium is anywhere in the 3 number nomenclature
0-6-6- represents
0 parts N nitrogen
6 parts P Phosphorous
6 Parts K potassium.....again, no calcium

the 3 numbers are for representing the fertilizers ratio

Of this lest, the 3 numbers only count for the Nitrogen, Phosphorous and Potassium
'
every other nutrient is / must be added or exist on its own

 

[Aqua Man]

Nutes MUST STATE they have calcium...NPK is the foundation for nutrients, the rest are mobile nutes / amendments
Calcium and Phos can affect the plants ability to absorb N as can Mag....
When growing in neutral substrates (not soil, nutes added), we usually start with
coco or peat, perlite and or vermiculite 25%...DOLOMITE LIME (preferred) and or CAL/MAG..., buffer the pH (some cooa MUST BE WASHED with pH 5 to get it to 5.8-6.4 as a base) gotta get the calcium and mag in the soil. Mag can be added in a foliar and is absorbed within a day or 2 where in the substrate it takes a wee to 10 days to be available to the plant. Best bet is use Epson salts...1 tsp per gal water (almost 4 L).

Most cal mag is cal nit and mag sulf, it won't buffer PH. Imo it's far easier to control and maintain PH when done through the nutrient solution because the CEC of coco is not the same as soil.

 

[Cypress66]

NO CALCIUM ..these 3 numbers represent
1 part Nitrogen
5 parts Phosphorous
6 parts Potassium
no calcium is anywhere in the 3 number nomenclature
0-6-6- represents
0 parts N nitrogen
6 parts P Phosphorous
6 Parts K potassium.....again, no calcium

the 3 numbers are for representing the fertilizers ratio

View attachment 1172015
Of this lest, the 3 numbers only count for the Nitrogen, Phosphorous and Potassium
'
every other nutrient is / must be added or exist on its own

Interesting man I have been using less calmax in the flower stage and the garden is nice but I have been using it all the veg period for the past two grows and it will stop the yellowing which was happening in the sixth week but the grotek impact range feed charts are showing that you use it right through the process apart from the week five i think they are very different and varied in the ec level from week to week the level is very high until the end of the flower but i keep in the 1.2/1.4 ec is the way they are growing nicely. The only thing that I’ve been trying to get to the point of the optimal level is to be getting the right time to be putting the things in at the right time and to adjust the ph level to suit the uptake of the different nutes I stay in the 5.5/6.0 range is normally 5.8 in veg period and then the mid flower stage is nearer to the 6.0 level is the first time I’ve been really strict with the ph normally I will be between the two levels and normally the low level sorry for going on here but I’m sure they don’t need to be hit with too much p the pk boosters are very high in the p and they are probably going to be shown in the charts to be used in the last four weeks of flower until the flush is what I have been doing and I have been wondering about stopping by the slightly earlier later flower stage is recommended to stop the last two weeks before harvest anyway they seem to be a good nutrient brand and the monster bloom is a product that I have used for years now and the only one that I’ve ever seen results with the other nutes is the second time I’ve been using them and they are probably the best I’ve been using this said I’ve been using the Dutch pro for years and I have been happy before that I used the plant magic and briefly canna so I haven’t had any experience with others I’ve been put off by the price of some of them and the other things are you will be spending your money on a product that is not very good Dutch pro has explode and I used it once and I never really had any noticeable results but it is very expensive and Buddha tree is another one plant magic and ionic was a waste of money as far as I’m concerned but that’s my experience and opinion on them that maybe different for others they are probably the same thing but that’s a very big thing to say without the knowledge of using them as for me I’ll be happy to stick with the ones that I use and they are reasonably priced sorry I’m going on again apologies and peace

 

[Aqua Man]

calcium is ALWAYS NEEDED throughout the grow and uless your nute specifically state there is Calcium in them, there are none. standard nutes and most dry/wet are just NPK...no cal..just Nitrogen, Phos, Potass...don't mis them up with mobile nutrients, amendments..they are separate and distinct

I disagree almost all nutes use cal nit as a N source and most sit around 6-10% cal.

OP IME Ca in the range of 100- 120ppm total seems to be adequate for most strains in my environment with mag around half that. I haven't found many strain that need more.

IMO nutrients are all about ratios. I haven't done a whole lots of tinkering but in general I grow more indica leaders and ratios of Cal about equal to N, K 2-3 x N (lower veg high in flower), Mg half CA and P half to 3/4 mag seems to do the trick.

In my case I run co2 with very high light from LED source and find I need a bit more N, CA, Mg and K overall and even in flower.

Ca issues usually have a lot to do with transpiration rates and nutrient ratios. IMO it's uncommon to see an actual Ca deficiency that's actual a lack of if environment and ratios are good.

 

[Aqua Man]

Will a 1-5-6 or 0-6-6 ratio not cause calcium deficiency? Is there any calcium in there?

It all depends on the sources... when you want to really understand nutrients it's a pretty involved topic. say part of the P come from cal phosphate then yes it may have enough depending on the amount of cal phosphate used for P. Maybe they use monopotassium phosphate... for P and K and in that case maybe not.

Then if using tap or RO. If tap you can look at the water report for Ca and most use some calcium carbonate as a PH buffer to prevent corrosion of coatings and pipes.

To involving for me to get into details but a word of advice is if you don't understand nutrients and sources and going to take advice on the ratios and products I would use the same products and ratios to prevent an unintended issue.

 

[4.19]

I use a tank no gas burner. My co2 controller has no fuzzy logic i have to upgrade to a fuzzy logic it swings too much now.

No 3 finger fan leaves.

@Aquaman First time grower but had some 3 finger fan leaves at about 12 weeks in. Things have changed, gotten better, but I dont know why. I have been curious why the 3 fan leaves. Can you elaborate? I dont want to keep making the same mistakes.

 

[Aqua Man]

@Aquaman First time grower but had some 3 finger fan leaves at about 12 weeks in. Things have changed, gotten better, but I dont know why. I have been curious why the 3 fan leaves. Can you elaborate? I dont want to keep making the same mistakes.

It's just one of the signs the plant is revegging after it has begun to flower. Growth is usually funky, sometimes twisted tossing out single blades and 3 bladed fans. Sometimes the edges of the leaves start to look smoother along the serrations and you start to see some new branching out of buds.

If you see 3 bladed fan leaves in flower it's a sure sign of stress and likely reveg imo

 

[FOE20]

When you feed 1-5-6 or 0-6-6 how much calcium is in the nutes?
I ask this because i thought calcium goes toghether with N and since its so low dosed will it not cause calcium deficiency?

To answer thjs part quickly...Super micros of Cal, and Mag in the Grow nute I use.....plus its in the Soil I use to amend my mixes...so no need...plus most over use Cal-Mag....so just dont sweat it unless all other aspects have been checked and theres still a issue..then maybe think Cal def....

@Aqua Man is on point with odd forms that wil show and its the Plant telling you its out of wack...

I try not to over think growing Pot...But to be strait about it for myself Cannabis produces Fruit..not Flowers...So growing is easy..Flowering or actually fruiting and Ripening varieties is what matters most..
To the point I feel Cannabis should be re-classified as a Medicinal Parthenocarpic Fruit...anyway....
Growing in veg stage is rather easy and quite basic once you get a feel for a method that works best for you....But without getting to complicated lets cover quick basics..
NPK is our Main food groups < (1st Macros)...
then 2nd Macros are Calcium and Magnesium..
yes you can supplement Cal for N cause Cal will break down and work like a nitrate but Cal also has more to offer but its only needed in a Micro amount even tho its a secondary Macro...
For me 3 main Connective transports are K(Potassium), Boron and Iron....But only K is used as a Macro and in conjunction with N in veg and P in Bloom but K is the Constant Macro...
3rd Macro is Sulfur and I'd bet most dont even pay attention to it...Also already in most soil mixes and only needed in super micro amounts....
Next we have other elements that def play as strong as part as Cal, Mag, Sulfur but used in micro or super micro....
Back to Iron, Manganese, Boron, Carbs(sucrose) and a source of Essential Oils (fish emulsions, banana extracts and kelps)...All used in micro or super micro...
IMO most ppl mis diagnose Cal-Mag issues...Its usually pH drift locking out their nutes...
To apply this it helps to use full bodied nutrients meaning a Nute line that has the base NPK and also a bit of the other elements..
My own method is Bio Organic...As I pref to use a range of ingredients in any method I feel fits the situation...
So I use a lightly amended mix thats mostly inert but buffered with enough for a plant to get to early or mid way thru bloom but I feed all thru...
When I advise a pre bought combo for a mix its PMixHP and FFOF (mixed 2to1, 2 part PMix, 1 part FFOF).....I pref a range of nute types and lines but for bases Botanicare works extremely well...And its Bio Organic not synthetic..
But Im kinda high and guess felt like typing a short essay.....lol......
But no matter what the very 1st thing is What Variety(s) are you running?......That dictates all of it.....power to it
FOE20

 

[Veteran]

I disagree almost all nutes use cal nit as a N source and most sit around 6-10% cal.

OP IME Ca in the range of 100- 120ppm total seems to be adequate for most strains in my environment with mag around half that. I haven't found many strain that need more.

IMO nutrients are all about ratios. I haven't done a whole lots of tinkering but in general I grow more indica leaders and ratios of Cal about equal to N, K 2-3 x N (lower veg high in flower), Mg half CA and P half to 3/4 mag seems to do the trick.

In my case I run co2 with very high light from LED source and find I need a bit more N, CA, Mg and K overall and even in flower.

Ca issues usually have a lot to do with transpiration rates and nutrient ratios. IMO it's uncommon to see an actual Ca deficiency that's actual a lack of if environment and ratios are good.

Perfect answer

 

[Veteran]

To answer thjs part quickly...Super micros of Cal, and Mag in the Grow nute I use.....plus its in the Soil I use to amend my mixes...so no need...plus most over use Cal-Mag....so just dont sweat it unless all other aspects have been checked and theres still a issue..then maybe think Cal def....

@Aqua Man is on point with odd forms that wil show and its the Plant telling you its out of wack...

I try not to over think growing Pot...But to be strait about it for myself Cannabis produces Fruit..not Flowers...So growing is easy..Flowering or actually fruiting and Ripening varieties is what matters most..
To the point I feel Cannabis should be re-classified as a Medicinal Parthenocarpic Fruit...anyway....
Growing in veg stage is rather easy and quite basic once you get a feel for a method that works best for you....But without getting to complicated lets cover quick basics..
NPK is our Main food groups < (1st Macros)...
then 2nd Macros are Calcium and Magnesium..
yes you can supplement Cal for N cause Cal will break down and work like a nitrate but Cal also has more to offer but its only needed in a Micro amount even tho its a secondary Macro...
For me 3 main Connective transports are K(Potassium), Boron and Iron....But only K is used as a Macro and in conjunction with N in veg and P in Bloom but K is the Constant Macro...
3rd Macro is Sulfur and I'd bet most dont even pay attention to it...Also already in most soil mixes and only needed in super micro amounts....
Next we have other elements that def play as strong as part as Cal, Mag, Sulfur but used in micro or super micro....
Back to Iron, Manganese, Boron, Carbs(sucrose) and a source of Essential Oils (fish emulsions, banana extracts and kelps)...All used in micro or super micro...
IMO most ppl mis diagnose Cal-Mag issues...Its usually pH drift locking out their nutes...
To apply this it helps to use full bodied nutrients meaning a Nute line that has the base NPK and also a bit of the other elements..
My own method is Bio Organic...As I pref to use a range of ingredients in any method I feel fits the situation...
So I use a lightly amended mix thats mostly inert but buffered with enough for a plant to get to early or mid way thru bloom but I feed all thru...
When I advise a pre bought combo for a mix its PMixHP and FFOF.....I pref a range of nute types and lines but for bases Botanicare works extremely well...And its Bio Organic not synthetic..
But Im kinda high and guess felt like typing a short essay.....lol......
But no matter what the very 1st thing is What Variety(s) are you running?......That dictates all of it.....power to it
FOE20

Thanks for the detailed answer bro but i have to get high to be on the same level , just kidding thanks. Im still dialing in my room for a while changing strains all the time because i cant find much so its a big mess. But everytime i think im almost there , didnt know how hard a small room can be compared to big grow rooms. And about the 0-6-6 ratio or other with low N i will try it since N is mobile i can deplete the N in the plant and ad slightly when deficient. By that time i will be flushing i think to ripen them.

 

[FOE20]

IMO nutrients are all about ratios. I haven't done a whole lots of tinkering

Indeed..............and Ive done a ridicules amount of tinkering...Like 6yrs on how certain Micro elements effect varieties under multiple methods....
Also trust what I talk on is mostly if not all Self Taught by direct study and contact with 100s of varieties...even tho Ive studied botany extensively as well...
For me the best teacher is the Plants...power to it
FOE20

 

[Aqua Man]

Indeed..............and Ive done a ridicules amount of tinkering...Like 6yrs on how certain Micro elements effect varieties under multiple methods....
Also trust what I talk on is mostly if not all Self Taught by direct study and contact with 100s of varieties...even tho Ive studied botany extensively as well...
For me the best teacher is the Plants...power to it
FOE20

Oh I'm taking notes... im a stubborn ass But in my older yrs I'm trying to cut out the learn the hard way routine.

Been watching to pick your brain as topics come up. So I'm sure you will see a few more questions from me around here if ya don't mind.

 

[4.19]

It's just one of the signs the plant is revegging after it has begun to flower. Growth is usually funky, sometimes twisted tossing out single blades and 3 bladed fans. Sometimes the edges of the leaves start to look smoother along the serrations and you start to see some new branching out of buds.

If you see 3 bladed fan leaves in flower it's a sure sign of stress and likely reveg imo

Interesting. The ones that did this were clones given to me by an acquaintance. Maybe he took them during flower and eventually they smoothed out after getting 19 hours of light. They got even better after several weeks and even better after the first week of flower. Thanks for the advice.